Mythic Mannoroth help requested

[Evolution69]

Hi, today was our first day for M Mannoroth.
We never went through P2. ( maybe 1 or 2 times to p3 )


This is the strat that we are using ( Consequence Strat - Proper Bird)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYhRgEil5Ww

But tonight we used 3 heals


As for the dispel, 1st is instant and killed by the ring.
2nd, delayed near 4 sec
3rd instant and should die with the ring again( but we only went there once. )


Near the end of P2, Everything get really messy.
We have a few infernals left, while trying to kill the 2nd doomlord and then the imps come. What we do is, were trying to ask the range to kill the infernals while melee focus on the 2nd Doomlord. Should we ask the range to help out on the doomlord, however, this is a pain when the imps spawn because we grip the infernals too.


I dunno if this strategy is the best so far. There a lot of movement .


My question are:
How does your tank handle the doomlord?

Second,
By checking the logs, can we improve anyone's job! (BTW Bretzel was our monk healer coming on his alt du to real life aggro from our second DK )

Thank for your help.
Any hints and tips is appreciated

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ckxrFtPNf3CBAJ1X

[Nitros14]

We used a kinda similar strategy to proper bird.

One thing we do different from you that I feel at these gear levels really simplifies things is a third tank who solely does doom guards and soaks wraths in between, they can be super undergeared (we've done it with a 710 alt blood death knight, also a super good way to get a second death knight if you need it). The DPS check for this fight is easy to meet now. We even four healed our first kill with a third tank.

We don't use rings on any doom guards after the first. Second ring is on the tough first imp spawn around 60% when your melee are out with their wraths. Third ring is at the start of the final phase. We used to get five doom guards, all dispelled instantly except the last one before the final phase which is delayed until 3 seconds left.

Looks like this. Pretty happy with this strategy as it's very reliable for us (12 mannoroth kills at this point).

[Deja Thoris]

Personally I'm not a big fan of the proper Bird positioning. They killed it pretty early and I think theres strats that simplify movement quite a lot.

We generally use a variation of this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikTHjs0XVCg

The general gist of p2 (you call it P1) is that its fel hellstorm (spread loosely avoid) > imps (spread loosely grip and aoe) > felseeker (take portal from right to left or vice versa) > fears (STAY STACKED after taking portal) > infernals (pop raid CD if they are all in your fear path and typhoon them away smartly)
This pattern always repeats.

Basically you all want to be loosely spread around the lock portal at the start and do what needs to be done. When the fel seeker comes (it always targets ranged) click the portal. On the next side the portal is on CD so just move back to "bait out" the fel seeker to completely avoid it being near melee. (2nd one is when people are spreading with doom. Run back to portal on opposite side - fears are coming. People will get low here since you let a doom volley cast go off. Use the few seconds when the raid is stacked to top them - no need to panic.

The tl'dr is its ping pong from left to right of the boss with a bit of dancing inbetween.

We always make sure we kill infernals before they teleport. I think you can look at your comp and tell some people to spec aoe and some single target. Who does what exactly depends on you needing to kill imps but (for example) it seems pointless to me to have a shadow priest searing insanity imps. Just let your bladestorms / divine storms wreck them and let the priest keep single targeting the doom lord or boss or whatever is prio at the time. I think a lot of raids have inefficiency because they see imps and all go full mongo aoe when in reality a small number of people can deal with them effectively.
With that in mind, if some of your locks can do demo its an amazing spec for imps.

I'll leave it there for p2.

P3 is mostly about control. Figure out the "box strat" which is basically using people with immunities to soak the stacks and learn the important overlaps (shadowforce imps / fear doomlord combos) and plan CD's around them and you'll progress quite nicely imo.

[Deleted]

2 of your healers can really improve, you are 12/13M for god sake and they are making such bad mistakes.

Looking at the 3:44 min fight

Your disc priest has a grand total of 1 Archangel cast, on 36 wipes he has 33 casts, meaning hes generally casting it 0-1 per fight. With a 30 sec cooldown that should be way higher and hes losing out on 25% extra healing and absorb for a total of 18 secs every 30 secs. Also has 1 PoH casts (22 all wipes), also cause of he doesnt get any Empowered AA by not casting AA and losing out on 100% crit on it. He uses Cascade instead of Halo and has 1 cast on that aswell and way to little Solace casts. If he cant keept solace on cooldown its just a crap spell and far below mindbender in mana regen and he should just swich to Mindbender.

Also im not sure if there is something weird with your logs or is he literally not dpsing on pull to build evang stacks and not pre shielding before Manno spawns + not building 2 piece penance stacks before pull and in fight hes dropping it a couple of times. With 38 casts per min hes just really not casting enough (for info i got 55 on manno and that is with a death at the end)

Now your resto shaman is a little harder to tell as there isnt loads to heal until p3-4 for him, but hes not using Hst on cooldown (2 casts) and has more healing surge casts then chain heal wich i find weird with the random aoe dmg going on. EB he only has 2 casts, his mana might be ok for the time being but he might want to rethink that for further into the fight, if he still has this much mana then he should really drop some spirit. Id also recommend he uses Tide in p2 earlier so he can use it again in p3, right now he used it pretty late into p2 and i wonder if it will even be up for p3 when thats where alot of damage happens.

Holy pala is only heal class idk alot about regarding reading logs and such, but thats what i gotta say about your healers as you also looked for anyone to improve.

Another thing about the encounter itself, your raid is already taking alot of damage from Fel Helstorm, they really need to watch this in p3-4 as it can really do alot of damage and become really hard to heal and will result into many deaths in the long run. Wich is just silly as all it requires is for people to not stand in black circles.

[Evolution69]

We used a kinda similar strategy to proper bird.

One thing we do different from you that I feel at these gear levels really simplifies things is a third tank who solely does doom guards and soaks wraths in between, they can be super undergeared (we've done it with a 710 alt blood death knight, also a super good way to get a second death knight if you need it). The DPS check for this fight is easy to meet now. We even four healed our first kill with a third tank.

We don't use rings on any doom guards after the first. Second ring is on the tough first imp spawn around 60% when your melee are out with their wraths. Third ring is at the start of the final phase. We used to get five doom guards, all dispelled instantly except the last one before the final phase which is delayed until 3 seconds left.

Looks like this. Pretty happy with this strategy as it's very reliable for us (12 mannoroth kills at this point).

Thx a bunch. really clean video
We will consider doing it with 3 tanks.


Another question:

How do you split your dps.
I mean, when imps are out, we go all out.
Then if infernals are up, range dps take car of them.
However, sometime we have one doomlord mixed with infernals.
Do you ask all range to switch to the doomlord? Then the infernals?

[Deleted]

We use a different strategy than most (I think), because we progressed quite some of the time without any WL, Warrior and only a single DK (which meant no grip for every other imp spawn). If you have any of those, our strat becomes even easier to pull off We use 2 tanks and 3 healers.

We split the fight into 3 phases (goals for the phase in brackets):
1st 100%-65% (we need to push 65% fast enough to skip the 3rd Doomlord)
2nd 65%-35% (we need to push 35% fast enough to not get the 5th Doomlord)
3rd 35%-0%

A video by our hunter of our first kil (with a Warrior and DK; yay!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL7BtWml6K0
The log of our first kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=28

Phase 1
We tank Mannoroth looking towards the purple pillar. the raid is positioned behind and to the side of him.

We instantly dispell the 1st Doomlord debuff (shield the person and you are fine, we let our Priest do the shield + dispell) and focus it down in order to get the full ring explosion into the boss. We spread out in melee range of the boss to not get hit by too many Fel Imp-losions, but close enough to AoE them down even without a grip (grip makes it easier ofc) while hitting the boss. We then wait for the Felseeker to go down and switch sides (WL portal or Druid roar help but are not necessary).

We then clump up before the fear so that (ideally) all fears run into the same direction. We have a fixed group of players soaking them (in our case Hunters + healers, whatever is enough to not let someone die) so that Mages, Boomkins and the Melees can maximise their DPS on the boss. Humans break their fear instanly so that the whole raid soaks it. When the Infernals come down we only DoT/Cleave them. If you comfortably transition to Phase 2 before the 3rd Doomlord, you can focus these down ofc.

Once again we dispell the Doomlord debuff instantly and spread out loosely for the imps, which get gripped together with the remaining Infernals. Melees cannot stand on the grip position if there are Infernals still up. We AoE them down and DPS the Doomlord to ~30% when the Debuffs come in. The Infernals have to be down at this point, because their AoE might trigger the Doomlord debuffs. The debuffs move out, we let the DL-cast go through and a Druid pops Roar before the Felseeker comes in.

We then switch sides again and repeat the same process: clump up for fear, ignore Infernals (they go inactive when you reach Phase 2), spread out a bit for Imps and push the boss to 65% fast enough to not get a 3rd Doomlord.


Phase 2
We tank Mannoroth looking towards the purple pillar. The raid goes in front of him, with their backs towards the pillar. We have 4 (death, green, blue, moon) Symbols for the Wrath debuffs set up in a square at the back of Mannoroth and a symbol (orange) in the middle of the square for the designated soakers.

Then the Wrath debuffs come in. The healer goes with the raid, melees and Ranged go to the 4 symbols. We have a rotation of Mages and Hunters set up to soak the 4 other debuffs. You need 3 soakers to soak most of them, afterwards everyone will have 5-10 stacks left which can be soaked randomly in the raid.

Helstorm needs to be avoided, but don't move away too much from the pillar, because the first Shadowforce will come in just as it hits. The best way to handle it (raid position) is to just let yourself get pushed into the pillar. don't try to move left or right. If you have trouble doing that, try running up towards Mannoroth in a straight line 1-2 seconds before Shadowforce hits and then let yourself get pushed back in to the pillar.

For the players affected by the Wraths: the 2 in the back (ranged players) have to try to get pushed into the red pillar (to the back right of them) that is still up. Also, if you have charges/blinks you can avoid getting pushed off the platform anyway if you run towards Mannoroth a little bit before Shadowforce comes in. The 2 other positions (Melees) can just use the purpe pillar like the raid. The designated soakers can also get hit by Shadowforce, have 1-2 Backups ready to take their spot in the soak rotation.

Fear is easy to handle since Wrath targets do not get hit by it. So every fear will run into the purpe Pillar and can get soaked by the whole raid.

Before the Felseeker hits, Ranged and healers move out to the sides in order to place the Felseeker out there. As soon as the Felseeker is casted, move back to the normal positions (quickly, the next Shadowforce is coming soon!). At the same time the 3rd Doomlord of the fight comes in. Dispell it instantly, have the debuffed players move out and kill of the Doomlord asap after his cast.

You will get another set of Imps and Shadowforce/Fear. Just handle it as before and spread out after for the next Felseeker. You should then transition to phase 3.

For the 2nd ring usage: depending on how much AoE you have for the Imps and whether you get enough damage on the boss to reach 35% before the next Doomlord, you can use it to kill a set of Imps (we used it for the 1st ones) or let it go into the boss. Either is fine, use it as it fits yur composition.


Phase 3
Clump up behind the boss, Wrath targets move out of the group (Melees to front right/left, Ranged to right/left, Healer joins the raid at the back). We then pop Bloodlust/Heroism and nuke the boss. You can use the ring here for for a set of Imps that you have trouble with or nuke the boss with it. Make sure you can AoE/grip the 1st set of imps.

Fears get soaked only by the dedicated Fear soakers, but even if you get too many soakers, the "grey mist" doesn't deal enough damage to really wipe you anyway. Everyone has to avoid as many Helstorm hits as possible. Make sure that no one breaks fear with their human racial in Phase 3. This cost us 2 surefire kills, which lead to us calling out "use human racials now!" at the start of every phase 3, so that the abilities were on CD =)

Use the "grey mist" for Shadowforce. They players with Wrath cannot join the raid, they have to try to maybe use the outer parts of the "grey mist" or use movement abilites. Otherwise, just let them get pushed off the platform.

Afterwards we just spread out and nuke the boss (Imps get ignored because they only explode in a certain radius, thus you can avoid it the damage from them). This also ensures that the Felseeker will only affect a few players.

If you get another fear, let these players die.


Additional tip
You can avoid Doomlord spawns completely with certain classes (Paladins, Rogues, Mages, and DKs) if you immune yourself before the Debuff is fired off. Since you cannot see which player is the target until it hits, this is a guessing game. We did not use this, because we prefer to have the CDs on our Mages for soaking the Wrath and the other CDs for "oh shit"-moments for the individual players. If you have the strat down, dealing with the Doomlords is no problem.

Fun fact: we lost the server first Mannoroth to a guild that had zero (ZERO!!!) Doomlords in their kill and had never gotten to phase 3 with 3 Doomlords. RNG-esus ftw

Also, people should not hit the Fel Summoner if they have on-hit proccing trinkets. Make sure that everyones CDs and triekt proccs etc. get off on Mannoroth when he gets active. We had peopel DPSing the Fel summoner, which is useless any way, proccing the internal CD on their heirloom trinkets etc.


Thats it for our strat, maybe it can help you!

[Wilderness]

How do you split your dps.
I mean, when imps are out, we go all out.
Then if infernals are up, range dps take car of them.
However, sometime we have one doomlord mixed with infernals.
Do you ask all range to switch to the doomlord? Then the infernals?

We don't have any dps hard switch to infernals at all. They die to cleave and multi-dotters. When they spawn if a DK has regular grip up and one is outside the hitbox then they'll grip it in so anyone spreading dots or cleaving will hit it but that's not really necessary if you want to save single grips for possible errant imps. They definitely aren't a priority, and you're losing out on Mannoroth damage if you are asking all of your ranged to switch to them when they are up. The Doomlord is always a priority, infernals are not.

[Deleted]

P3

I like that strategy too and I believe it's an invention of Paragon. The predominant advantage is that the movement in the first phases is at the absolute minimum which makes it easier to heal and easier to dps and easier to tank. The main disadvantage is that soaking wraths while simpler, it can fail more dramatically, but if people have it down it can become very reliable (especially if the right classes are used).

My only beef is that when we did it we also didn't go "full Paragon" because they had the impressive idea of not going through ice patches in p3 at all, but that probably requires stampeding roar that we didn't have or/and people never stopping movement for a single moment which might be tough to accomplish for all players.

[nephzor]

No idea why your blood dk is running unholy blight and necrotic plague, he's not unholy. Should be running plague leech and defile or breath of sindragosa. He's 11/13m i think it's time that he learns to play his class properly, im sorry if that sounds harsh but its the reality.

Worst part, he didnt use UB in any of your pulls, he could have no talent selected in that row and it wouldnt make any difference(not like UB makes a difference anyway).

I wont say anything about your UH dk since its an alt.