Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

However indirect that purchase was doesn't matter.

Are you playing dumb?

The argument is about whether people play on private servers just cause it's free. Meaning, if private servers didn't exist, these people would play on retail. They only played on private servers because it meant they didn't have to pay money.

That argument holds no weight, when there is a way to play on official retail servers without having to pay money. Is that maybe a term that you like better? They don't have to pay money in order to play.

When you say that "however indirect that purchase was doesn't matter" all you show is that you don't get the initial argument.

Why would it matter who paid for my sub, if all I want is to play without paying money?

Please, see some sense.

[Boathouse]

This argument has no standing considering Blizzard REFUSES to make legacy server. You can't complain about "defending your IP" when you don't actually use it. It's just ridiculous.

Again, they do use it. Just because it's not the same version of World of Warcraft doesn't make it any less World of Warcraft.

[ornichi]

"Hurrdurr, Blizz were just afraid everybody quits live for Nost. Hurrdurr, such a dick move."
Meanwhile the playerbase of Nostalrius was 12k peak, live still has around 5mil. What are you talking about? What were you expecting? Just find another private vanilla server and play there. We will have less toxic players, who do nothing but complain about the current state of game.

[DarkAmbient]

Ah well, it was inevitable but it's still a shame for the community on that server.

[Deleted]

Wouldnt that mean massive lag though? I dont think even Blizzard servers can support 15k people online in a single server.

Some lag, but playable and i was playing from JAPAN even with my family and friends spread across Europe and US! I think when 15k were online they had to lower the FoV quite a bit.

[Raetary]

awww man, i like that server.
well, good bye nosti, you will be missed.

[Akka]

Again, they do use it. Just because it's not the same version of World of Warcraft doesn't make it any less World of Warcraft.

Don't play dumb. They don't offer legacy realms, so why would they prevent people who want to play on them from doing so ?
They shout loudly "we don't want to go back" but they are actively preventing others to do the same. That's just hypocrital to the nth degree.

So you know nothing about private servers then. A lot of people on them also have retail accounts, even popular streamers admitted to playing private servers. If you seriously think most people played on Nost because it was free then you just don't understand the private server scene for WoW.

People stupid enough to believe pirates are a special brand of evil completely insulated and separated from regular customers are not the kind who understand a lot about player's mentality.

[Seditian]

Steal? How is it stealing?

They're not taking money for anything, how is this any different than Fair use?

Seeing as almost (if not all) private servers use micro transactions/P2W elements, it would seriously surprise me if they didn't earn a dime on that one. Even a referral to their self-made game/projects is already making a profit in some way.

E: Holy shit this thread moves fast, checked timestamp and thought I'd reply. 55 pages too late.

[D3athsting]

Well yea, thats the problem with retail. Its just a bunch of players who dont really interact with each other.

This is what happens with x-realm, dungeon finder and removal of elite world quests

[ls-]

This argument has no standing considering Blizzard REFUSES to make legacy server. You can't complain about "defending your IP" when you don't actually use it. It's just ridiculous.

They use it, I could understand this claim if WoW was long dead and forgotten, but it's still there and people play this game, you have poor understanding of what IP is.

[Boathouse]

So you know nothing about private servers then. A lot of people on them also have retail accounts, even popular streamers admitted to playing private servers. If you seriously think most people played on Nost because it was free then you just don't understand the private server scene for WoW.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can with 100% honesty say that the few people I do know who did play on it never paid for the game and just wanted to try it, or refuse to pay sub fees anymore.

Don't play dumb. They don't offer legacy realms, so why would they prevent people who want to play on them from doing so ?
They shout loudly "we don't want to go back" but they are actively preventing others to do the same. That's just hypocrital to the nth degree.

It doesn't matter at all if they offer or plan to offer them. Blizzard owns the damn game and everything in it. If they don't want it up, it doesn't stay up. What part of that is difficult to understand? Blizzard is actively making money off WoW and in large numbers, that's reason enough to shut them down for using their stuff without permission.

[Raiju]

Isn't it deeply hypocrital from Blizzard to refuse to do legacy servers, and yet try to close down those who exist ?

I mean, IF Blizzard had legacy servers, then yeah it would be "stealing" from them and I could agree. But they don't. So why are they pissing on the parade of those who actually manage to do it ?

Legally it's stealing - which means if blizzard is made aware (and there is evidence of this) they have to chase up. I imagine they were ignoring it as long as possible, but once either too much publicity was going or they were aware of the server shutting down they pulled this to practice their legal rights - ensuring they can protect their IP in the future and 'but you let these guys do it' being used against them.

Let's not pretend blizzard didn't know about these for a long time - it was a known term on both of the main fan sites. They did not do this to screw any players over, and they've been knowingly letting people do this.

Just next time you have a server shut up about it and enjoy it instead of streaming it & coming on the forums about it. Then blizzard doesn't HAVE to act even if they do know, because it's impossible to prove they know.

[Deleted]

Funny how priv servers existed for years upon years, yet blizzard didn't cared about them. The retail version was simply the best and had a massive subscriber base. Pservers were like poor cousins compared to retail. It was like Bill Gates & Microsoft - 70% of the world uses pirated Windows XP? Meh we don't care, we're still the richest in the world and that's what counts!

However, currently WoW is shit. WOD has been a disaster, we are having another year+ content drought. Priv servers are at all-time top of popularity atm. People choose to abandon no-content garrisoncraft and go play nostalgia versions instead. Nostralius was quite popular blizzlike vanilla server. So is molten wow for Wrath and Cata realms. I remember 2200 queue on Greymane launch on Molten.wow. The servers have 4k players capacity and there were 2200 ppl in queue. Their x1 blizzlike server runs at pop cap almost all the time.

[Deleted]

Sure, lets talk about how people love to log in on their 5 toons with fully equipped followers/ships, send them to missions, relog after 8 hours, do that again, do some tanaan rares for oil, rinse and repeat. My wife spends about 4 hours per day on that shit to get crapton of gold she doesn't need. I can't stand this, i have better things to do, it's not gameplay, it's bullshit

You sound like my boyfriend and yes, I admit, I spent at least 2-3h a day doing it as well but then again I made way more gold than I actually needed as you said. So instead of doing it 2-4h a day, I think 15m would be enough to just pay for those tokens. That or even soloing old raids or playing on the AH.

[hnlntm]

Blizzard rarely shut down private servers, the last time they did was because the devs of the private server started adding micro transactions in game. This is a big no no.

This time round Blizz have hit 2 birds with one stone, they have taken down one of if not the biggest private server. To make an example of what can happen when you host/play on a private server. Blizzard also want to show they can and will defend their trademark. If they don't, Blizzard may find it harder to claim for damages. Its better described here:

Laches, Acquiescence and “unclean hands” are defenses to trademark infringement causes of action. Laches is when a plaintiff has a duty to promptly bring a claim for a preliminary injunction (a bar to stop further infringment) once the plaintiff knows or should have known of possible infringement. If the plaintiff unduly delays a claim for an injunction, then the plaintiff weakens their claim of irreparable injury and may not receive damages or other monetary relief. Acquiescence is when a plaintiff implicitly or explicitly assures the defendant that they will not assert their trademark rights. In this instance, the plaintiff may prevent themselves from obtaining an injunction or damages. “Unclean hands” is when the plaintiff’s conduct in connection with the mark was illegal or unconscionable. In this case, the plaintiff’s claim may be barred.
In sum, a defendant may also have a fair use defense against a trademark owner’s infringement claim for any fair use of a famous mark by another that is not used as designation of the source of the third party’s own goods or services. This includes descriptive and nominative fair use, ads or promotions to compare goods or services, for identification, parodying, criticizing or commenting purposes and any noncommercial use.

http://intellectual-property.legalhe...-infringement/

[Kolvarg]

Again, they do use it. Just because it's not the same version of World of Warcraft doesn't make it any less World of Warcraft.

It's far from being the appeal of the game anymore; Many zones aren't even available anymore and/or have been changed by Cataclysm; And overall the experience is nothing alike it was simply because of gameplay and design changes.

Yes it's their IP, but don't pretend they're still providing a Vanilla experience for those who might choose to pay for that. They aren't and they admitted to having plans to do so despite the existance of interest, including internally.

[caervek]

Why can't blizzard just make a Vanilla server and be done with it?!

IMO this could well be a sign that Blizzard may be planning just that, the reason they never cared about private Vanilla servers is because they were not in competition with the main game and they provided a service WoW fans wanted. It's possible that they have just decided to randomly start caring about the IP violation but it's just as likely they are taking out potential rivals ahead of a possible Vanilla server launch of their own.

[DarkAmbient]

"Hurrdurr, Blizz were just afraid everybody quits live for Nost. Hurrdurr, such a dick move."
Meanwhile the playerbase of Nostalrius was 12k peak, live still has around 5mil. What are you talking about kids? What were you expecting? Just find another private vanilla server and play there. W will have less toxic players, who do nothing but complain about the current state of game.

You are comparing the numbers of people actually playing simultaneously on one private server, with the numbers of subscribers that WoW has. Not the same thing at all.

And you don't get to claim the moral high ground by calling people kids.

[MoanaLisa]

This argument has no standing considering Blizzard REFUSES to make legacy server. You can't complain about "defending your IP" when you don't actually use it. It's just ridiculous.

The IP is World of Warcraft and the Warcraft Universe. To use anything from the Warcraft Universe proper you need to license it from Blizzard. Same with different versions of the game I suppose. But all of the different versions are part of the same IP along with story, art assets, quests, quest text, spell effects, music, names of locations, and just about anything that a server interacts with and manipulates in a client. There's plenty of standing.

I understand a lot of the emotion that's arising out of this but really, so many of the arguments are just wrong legally and in every other way imaginable. "Vanilla Wow" is not a separate IP from the rest of the game.

[Akka]

They use it, I could understand this claim if WoW was long dead and forgotten, but it's still there and people play this game, you have poor understanding of what IP is.

And you are just playing semantics. Blizzard refuse to offer a service, and is dickish enough to prevent those who do from continuing to provide it. Blizzard has lost all moral standing there.