Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Struggle]

And Blizzard told you "No."

Everything else past that has been a temper tantrum on your part.

Act like a child, don't be shocked when you're treated like one.

Blizzard also said at the first WoW panel at BlizzCon that raiding should nearly be the polar opposite of what it's become on retail live.

Things change, and they change quicker if you speak up about wanting it. There are people on both sides acting like children. There are pro-legacy people who want retail live to be converted back to be more like Vanilla...childish opinion. Then there are anti-legacy people that keep telling anyone that wants a separate server for legacy versions of the game that Blizzard already told us no and if we don't accept that we're children throwing a temper tantrum.

[Wolfheart9]

He is actively telling pro-legacy people in the thread to "fuck off".
And the anti-legacy people in the thread defend him.

Could you point out to me where he told every pro-legacy player here to "fuck off"? I'm not seeing it. In the posts you picked, he was speaking to one particular individual at a time if I am seeing that right. If he is in fact telling every single pro-legacy player to "fuck off", then no, that is wrong.

Also I am myself an anti-legacy person in regards to thinking it will be wasteful in the amount of work it would take to get going compared to how many would actually pay for it, HOWEVER I have absolutely 0 problem with Blizzard actually doing it if that's what they choose, and I'm not defending this guy if he is, in fact, telling every single person to "fuck off".

[Deleted]

Instead of personal attacks you guys are now resorting to saying we have exactly what we are asking for? Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

I never used argumentum ad hominem on your arguments.

I just question the success of an old version. Sure, the hype will be large at start. But it will not stay alive. It's the same with any kind of "nostalgic" novelty in MMORPGs nowadays. Most times, new MMORPGs are just successfull at start, and lose all their players. See games like Wildstar and others, which just lose the appeal as their only strength was catering to a minority.

I am sure, that going f2p actually would be way more successfull.

[Mullet Man]

I've told nobody to "fuck off". Lies don't get you anywhere.

There is no "anti-legacy". There is only "anti-stupid", and you're not in that group.

There is no "anti-legacy" crowd. There's posters like you, who whine and snivel and play games all day trying to justify playing a game illegally, then there's the rest of us, who just want you to shut the fuck up already, and correct your more bizarre and blatant errors in judgement, logic, and facts.

I'll let people judge for themselves on the quality of person you are...

[Gadzooks]

Whelp, Blu Ray is done, so I'm done here, for now. Have fun storming the Castle of Stupid, my "Anti-legacy Blizzard bootlickers" crowd!

- - - Updated - - -

I'll let people judge for themselves on the quality of person you are...

Lets see...my level of concern here...nope. None at all.


PS - 'Fuck you" is not the same thing as wishing people would shut the fuck up. Pay more attention in class, words mean things.

[AztechZero]

I never used argumentum ad hominem on your arguments.

I just question the success of an old version. Sure, the hype will be large at start. But it will not stay alive. It's the same with any kind of "nostalgic" novelty in MMORPGs nowadays. Most times, new MMORPGs are just successfull at start, and lose all their players. See games like Wildstar and others, which just lose the appeal as their only strength was catering to a minority.

I am sure, that going f2p actually would be way more successfull.

A question for you. Are legacy realms and going f2p mutually exclusive from your point of view? I really don't think they have to be. Consider that you could make the current game f2p then offer the legacy realms at a premium for those who want them.

[Deleted]

A question for you. Are legacy realms and going f2p mutually exclusive from your point of view?
I really don't think they have to be. Consider that you could make the current game f2p then offer the legacy realms at a premium for those who want them.

Yeah, that would be an interesting idea. I think the game itself in its current shape should go f2p.

[lastRaven587]

I believe that the legacy versus live debate comes down to one big aspect. The feel of the game, then versus now. I like the idea of legacy servers to capture the "feel" of classic wow, but I would rather blizzard take measures to bring the classic "feel" back into the live game. Here are some random thoughts that I think would breathe life back into world of warcraft so much as to appeal to both audiences. Draw the good things from vanilla and bring them back to live.

1. The most important thing is to bring back the importance of gear. What is an MMORPG without the desire to advance your character through gear progression? I feel like gearing your character really became dumbed down and diluted towards then end of Wrath / beginning of Cata. Everyone (And I mean everyone) is running around with the same if not similar gear. All of it at the same or near the same level of power. And it is easy to get.

A thought on this - I feel like this can be solved by having one raid difficulty, or two at max (Normal and Heroic). And make them challenging so that people have to put some backbone into getting their rewards for downing bosses. Aim towards bringing PROGRESSION back to wow. I think thats the key thing right there, progression. There should be no easy path to gearing out your character. Blizzard needs to understand that it is OK, and not a gamebreaker, for there to be item level gaps in the player base whether significantly large or marginal. It gives people something to work towards.

I feel like this has always been a good formula. Quest gear -> Dungeon Gear -> Heroic Dungeon Gear -> Raid 1 -> Raid 2 etc. Stick to that and use a badge system like ICC Badges of Frost for catchup.

2. PVP versus PVE. There are three player types. PVE, PVP and Both. We all know this. PVP gear and PVE gear need to be separated again. I shouldnt be able to do a raid in my pvp gear. And I should get decimated if I try to PVP in raid gear. I feel like the original launch of PVP resilience was the best way to separate PVP gear from PVE gear, and to make one feel like earning PVP gear was enhancing and strengthening effectiveness on the PVP battlefield.

A thought on this - There is no problem rewarding players and people who commit to the challenge, with "better than average" rewards. Right now PvP elite gear is a laughable reward. And Mythic Raid gear? Haha. Rated Battlegrounds need to come back to their glory. They brought pvpers together when they first came out in a huge way. Arena needs to come back to its glory. Also really intense when they first came out. Raiding needs to come back to its glory as well.

3. Community. I know this is a testy subject. I believe that LFG, LFR and Cross Realm have killed community in world of warcraft. Part of the engagement in an MMORPG is networking with other players and being a part of a server's community. Right now that is non existent.

A thought on this- Guilds. Guilds are an important part of the community. They should be a commitment, and like an online family for you while you play. That's how it was for a long time. Right now the cross server stuff has really killed that. And also...what happened to guild perks and rewards? I always wondered why blizzard didnt offer more rewards to guilds that grow and progress over time.

Overall, I really think it comes down to blizzard needing to look at the FEEL of the game. Level of Challenge, Progression, and community are all part of the FEEL. And right now, the feel of live just isnt right for a lot of people and thats why they have lost so many subs. And to be honest, the new expansion hasn't really done a whole lot for the FEEL of the game.

Maybe instead of arguing about Legacy Servers versus live servers, it would be more productive to discuss blending the two into one good game that caters to both audiences instead of separating them.

[Mullet Man]

Whelp, Blu Ray is done, so I'm done here, for now. Have fun storming the Castle of Stupid, my "Anti-legacy Blizzard bootlickers" crowd!

- - - Updated - - -




Lets see...my level of concern here...nope. None at all.


PS - 'Fuck you" is not the same thing as wishing people would shut the fuck up. Pay more attention in class, words mean things.

Can anyone defend this?
Prime example of the hatred toward the pro-legacy crowd.

[Eliseus]

And we're back to the semantical games again. But I didn't expect more from you, so nothing is lost.

I'll bet you a WHOLE DOLLAR, (I doubt you could afford more) that when I come back later, you'll have been playing the same dumb semantical games all day, all night, and a big chunk of tomorrow, because it's all you have.

ONE WHOLE DOLLAR, we'll see nothing new from you.

- - - Updated - - -



I've told nobody to "fuck off". Lies don't get you anywhere.

- - - Updated - - -



There is no "anti-legacy". There is only "anti-stupid", and you're not in that group.

So instead of proving me a no you laugh at me? You guys wonder why you keep getting asked for proof.

You told me to fuck off.

[Wolfheart9]

I believe that the legacy versus live debate comes down to one big aspect. The feel of the game, then versus now. I like the idea of legacy servers to capture the "feel" of classic wow, but I would rather blizzard take measures to bring the classic "feel" back into the live game. Here are some random thoughts that I think would breathe life back into world of warcraft so much as to appeal to both audiences. Draw the good things from vanilla and bring them back to live.

1. The most important thing is to bring back the importance of gear. What is an MMORPG without the desire to advance your character through gear progression? I feel like gearing your character really became dumbed down and diluted towards then end of Wrath / beginning of Cata. Everyone (And I mean everyone) is running around with the same if not similar gear. All of it at the same or near the same level of power. And it is easy to get.

A thought on this - I feel like this can be solved by having one raid difficulty, or two at max (Normal and Heroic). And make them challenging so that people have to put some backbone into getting their rewards for downing bosses. Aim towards bringing PROGRESSION back to wow. I think thats the key thing right there, progression. There should be no easy path to gearing out your character. Blizzard needs to understand that it is OK, and not a gamebreaker, for there to be item level gaps in the player base whether significantly large or marginal. It gives people something to work towards.

I feel like this has always been a good formula. Quest gear -> Dungeon Gear -> Heroic Dungeon Gear -> Raid 1 -> Raid 2 etc. Stick to that and use a badge system like ICC Badges of Frost for catchup.

2. PVP versus PVE. There are three player types. PVE, PVP and Both. We all know this. PVP gear and PVE gear need to be separated again. I shouldnt be able to do a raid in my pvp gear. And I should get decimated if I try to PVP in raid gear. I feel like the original launch of PVP resilience was the best way to separate PVP gear from PVE gear, and to make one feel like earning PVP gear was enhancing and strengthening effectiveness on the PVP battlefield.

A thought on this - There is no problem rewarding players and people who commit to the challenge, with "better than average" rewards. Right now PvP elite gear is a laughable reward. And Mythic Raid gear? Haha. Rated Battlegrounds need to come back to their glory. They brought pvpers together when they first came out in a huge way. Arena needs to come back to its glory. Also really intense when they first came out. Raiding needs to come back to its glory as well.

3. Community. I know this is a testy subject. I believe that LFG, LFR and Cross Realm have killed community in world of warcraft. Part of the engagement in an MMORPG is networking with other players and being a part of a server's community. Right now that is non existent.

A thought on this- Guilds. Guilds are an important part of the community. They should be a commitment, and like an online family for you while you play. That's how it was for a long time. Right now the cross server stuff has really killed that. And also...what happened to guild perks and rewards? I always wondered why blizzard didnt offer more rewards to guilds that grow and progress over time.

Overall, I really think it comes down to blizzard needing to look at the FEEL of the game. Level of Challenge, Progression, and community are all part of the FEEL. And right now, the feel of live just isnt right for a lot of people and thats why they have lost so many subs. And to be honest, the new expansion hasn't really done a whole lot for the FEEL of the game.

Maybe instead of arguing about Legacy Servers versus live servers, it would be more productive to discuss blending the two into one good game that caters to both audiences instead of separating them.

Unfortunately I don't believe a blend could ever happen now adays, the sides are simply too split. I played in Vanilla, I actually know what it was like unlike many others that claim "it wuz gud cuz it wuz hard k?" (Note to the ones that want to tear this post apart: not saying all are like that, only that many have admitted they did not actually play in Vanilla). It was not fun to sit in a city for an hour and a half looking for a group because you were an unpopular class. It was not fun to never see end game content because your favorite spec just wasn't balanced and up to snuff to the others. Many wanting legacy servers believe the LFG system is in fact Hitler and Satan's baby, so I get the feeling you wouldn't have any budging on that, and I personally don't want half of my game time to be spent hitting the Looking for Group macro, so I won't budge much on that either.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Sorry man, every single one of those petition signatures are me. Even yours. I somehow bypassed all preventive measures change.org has and really just want a classic server I can play on by myself.

I knew it! #YouThinkItsRealButItsNot

I was sure you'd get busted!

I'll let people judge for themselves on the quality of person you are...

That goes without saying. Still sad that the real, genuine posts gets lost in this useless war.

He is actively telling pro-legacy people in the thread to "fuck off".
And the anti-legacy people in the thread defend him.

Ain't that the story of this thread?

So it's your word against his word, and somehow your word carries more weight? And why?

Once again the story of this thread.

On a more related note to the actual, real news about about Legacy Servers (without all the mindless bashing going on):

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/726479459755270144

Q: "mark in all honesty, what do you think? will blizzard give in and make vanilla a thing? what are your estimates? or still 50/50?"

A: No way to tell. Its great that we've got meetings, that can only help.

Also more interestingly, we managed to make it to the top of reddit.com/r/games yesterday evening! https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...rius_dev_team/

[Eliseus]

I never used argumentum ad hominem on your arguments.

I just question the success of an old version. Sure, the hype will be large at start. But it will not stay alive. It's the same with any kind of "nostalgic" novelty in MMORPGs nowadays. Most times, new MMORPGs are just successfull at start, and lose all their players. See games like Wildstar and others, which just lose the appeal as their only strength was catering to a minority.

I am sure, that going f2p actually would be way more successfull.

If I used other games as a starting point, the progression servers only die when they hit expansion where the game basically died (even then, raiding guilds still stayed on these servers). So if and IF the servers start to die, it would be around the Cata era. Now, what are we considering as dead? No population or a decrease in population? There is potential even then for Cata and on-wards to be successful, and let's say expansions have a year time frame release. Blizzard would more than likely of profited, if not on the initial release of the server, by then. This is all assuming the servers will be as successful as indicated so far. There is a chance Blizzard does this and it all flops of course since all investment opportunities aren't absolute. There is no indication as of yet though this would happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Whelp, Blu Ray is done, so I'm done here, for now. Have fun storming the Castle of Stupid, my "Anti-legacy Blizzard bootlickers" crowd!

- - - Updated - - -




Lets see...my level of concern here...nope. None at all.


PS - 'Fuck you" is not the same thing as wishing people would shut the fuck up. Pay more attention in class, words mean things.

The classes I was in all growing up didn't put time into studying derogatory remarks, and instead uplifting and more intelligible phrases/words. What school did you go to?

[Struggle]

I believe that the legacy versus live debate comes down to one big aspect. The feel of the game, then versus now. I like the idea of legacy servers to capture the "feel" of classic wow, but I would rather blizzard take measures to bring the classic "feel" back into the live game. Here are some random thoughts that I think would breathe life back into world of warcraft so much as to appeal to both audiences. Draw the good things from vanilla and bring them back to live.

1. The most important thing is to bring back the importance of gear. What is an MMORPG without the desire to advance your character through gear progression? I feel like gearing your character really became dumbed down and diluted towards then end of Wrath / beginning of Cata. Everyone (And I mean everyone) is running around with the same if not similar gear. All of it at the same or near the same level of power. And it is easy to get.

A thought on this - I feel like this can be solved by having one raid difficulty, or two at max (Normal and Heroic). And make them challenging so that people have to put some backbone into getting their rewards for downing bosses. Aim towards bringing PROGRESSION back to wow. I think thats the key thing right there, progression. There should be no easy path to gearing out your character. Blizzard needs to understand that it is OK, and not a gamebreaker, for there to be item level gaps in the player base whether significantly large or marginal. It gives people something to work towards.

I feel like this has always been a good formula. Quest gear -> Dungeon Gear -> Heroic Dungeon Gear -> Raid 1 -> Raid 2 etc. Stick to that and use a badge system like ICC Badges of Frost for catchup.

2. PVP versus PVE. There are three player types. PVE, PVP and Both. We all know this. PVP gear and PVE gear need to be separated again. I shouldnt be able to do a raid in my pvp gear. And I should get decimated if I try to PVP in raid gear. I feel like the original launch of PVP resilience was the best way to separate PVP gear from PVE gear, and to make one feel like earning PVP gear was enhancing and strengthening effectiveness on the PVP battlefield.

A thought on this - There is no problem rewarding players and people who commit to the challenge, with "better than average" rewards. Right now PvP elite gear is a laughable reward. And Mythic Raid gear? Haha. Rated Battlegrounds need to come back to their glory. They brought pvpers together when they first came out in a huge way. Arena needs to come back to its glory. Also really intense when they first came out. Raiding needs to come back to its glory as well.

3. Community. I know this is a testy subject. I believe that LFG, LFR and Cross Realm have killed community in world of warcraft. Part of the engagement in an MMORPG is networking with other players and being a part of a server's community. Right now that is non existent.

A thought on this- Guilds. Guilds are an important part of the community. They should be a commitment, and like an online family for you while you play. That's how it was for a long time. Right now the cross server stuff has really killed that. And also...what happened to guild perks and rewards? I always wondered why blizzard didnt offer more rewards to guilds that grow and progress over time.

Overall, I really think it comes down to blizzard needing to look at the FEEL of the game. Level of Challenge, Progression, and community are all part of the FEEL. And right now, the feel of live just isnt right for a lot of people and thats why they have lost so many subs. And to be honest, the new expansion hasn't really done a whole lot for the FEEL of the game.

Maybe instead of arguing about Legacy Servers versus live servers, it would be more productive to discuss blending the two into one good game that caters to both audiences instead of separating them.

I like the ideas, but seeing as we're nearing the 1200th page of a thread full of people passionately arguing for either side of this debate I believe the only logical solution is to just create new servers running old versions of the game. The game has changed so much it's hardly recognizable to people like me that want to play the old expansions again. Likewise the game was so different back then that people that started playing in Cata, MoP, WoD, hell maybe even Wrath wouldn't like the gameplay of older versions of the game and would greatly prefer the current patch. Even a "meet us halfway" approach with both sides would leave a sour taste in the mouth of a large group of people on one side or the other, and that could be avoided by simply having both legacy and current-patch servers.

[Mullet Man]

Unfortunately I don't believe a blend could ever happen now adays, the sides are simply too split. I played in Vanilla, I actually know what it was like unlike many others that claim "it wuz gud cuz it wuz hard k?" (Note to the ones that want to tear this post apart: not saying all are like that, only that many have admitted they did not actually play in Vanilla). It was not fun to sit in a city for an hour and a half looking for a group because you were an unpopular class. It was not fun to never see end game content because your favorite spec just wasn't balanced and up to snuff to the others. Many wanting legacy servers believe the LFG system is in fact Hitler and Satan's baby, so I get the feeling you wouldn't have any budging on that, and I personally don't want half of my game time to be spent hitting the Looking for Group macro, so I won't budge much on that either.

I played Vanilla in 2004-2006.
I played Nost.

In vanilla I had a much harder time finding groups for instances.
Wasn't too bad, but it took longer as my realm wasn't the largest and many folks were intimidated by them.

In Nost, it was easy to find groups.
People knew what to expect.
There were lots of players doing the content.

For some exotic runs, you could see some folks spamming /2 for a while. But standard instance runs were pretty easy to get into.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

If I used other games as a starting point, the progression servers only die when they hit expansion where the game basically died (even then, raiding guilds still stayed on these servers). So if and IF the servers start to die, it would be around the Cata era. Now, what are we considering as dead? No population or a decrease in population? There is potential even then for Cata and on-wards to be successful, and let's say expansions have a year time frame release. Blizzard would more than likely of profited, if not on the initial release of the server, by then. This is all assuming the servers will be as successful as indicated so far. There is a chance Blizzard does this and it all flops of course since all investment opportunities aren't absolute. There is no indication as of yet though this would happen.

By all means, Blizzard themselves considered 450k subscribers for the release of Vanilla as a tremendous success : http://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-world-o...izzard-vanilla

[Simplex]

Exactly. He asked for proof, and I said if they are lying, then there isn't proof. You just went in a complete 360.

So you are saying they are lying about their meeting? Okay. I guess we will see then .

No you didn't. You are saying he's acusing Blizz of lying, which is not true. I don't really understand why's this particular little tug-of-war convo still happening, but I've said what I wanted to say in the first post and tried to clarify with 2nd and 3rd so I don't really plan to address it any further

[Wolfheart9]

I played Vanilla in 2004-2006.
I played Nost.

In vanilla I had a much harder time finding groups for instances.
Wasn't too bad, but it took longer as my realm wasn't the largest and many folks were intimidated by them.

In Nost, it was easy to find groups.
People knew what to expect.
There were lots of players doing the content.

For some exotic runs, you could see some folks spamming /2 for a while. But standard instance runs were pretty easy to get into.

If an official Vanilla server could have that going full time, that would be nice then. Still doesn't address the class balance concerns that existed back then but that's certainly a step in the right direction for making it what the Vanilla experience 'should' of been.

[Eliseus]

By all means, Blizzard themselves considered 450k subscribers for the release of Vanilla as a tremendous success : http://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-world-o...izzard-vanilla

Exactly, so what are we as a community deeming to not be a success. Somehow 450k subs by some doesn't seem to be considered that anymore. Even though the company is turning a profit. I feel we have gotten into this weird spot where people feel if there isn't millions it isn't worth it, while those of us who have experience with lower numbers know it can work. For example, people who played on Nost knows how amazing even a 150k active pop can be. Some of the people who play current WoW and never played something with that low of a pop can't fathom the idea.

- - - Updated - - -

No you didn't. You are saying he's acusing Blizz of lying, which is not true. I don't really understand why's this particular little tug-of-war convo still happening, but I've said what I wanted to say in the first post and tried to clarify with 2nd and 3rd so I don't really plan to address it any further

I think we have some miscommunication and I apologize if so. I'm pretty sure he was referring to Mark.

[Mullet Man]

If an official Vanilla server could have that going full time, that would be nice then. Still doesn't address the class balance concerns that existed back then but that's certainly a step in the right direction for making it what the Vanilla experience 'should' of been.

My experience...
Most of the folks were not Min/Maxing on Nost.
So a lot of different play styles were allowed.

Honestly, MC isn't hard. If you throw enough warm bodies with fire resist gear, you can beat the instance.
You don't need to have everyone with an optimal build.

As the content gets harder, I suspect some players would need to change specs. But I was never in a "Top X" guild that had those requirements.