Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deficineiron]

some people should just play the modern iteration of wow then.

Activision-blizzard will see the problem from an entirely different perspective. legacy servers should be made for those players to play also, and tuned appropriately.

here are some more -

some players will complain about the time to level. blizzard will reduce xp/level needed, and also allow players to purchase a 'boost' to 60 in the gamestore.

some players will not be happy with the issues with lvl 40/60 riding, and its cost. blizzard will make mounts 20/40, and greatly reduce mount cost. also, for players that need that extra helping hand, blizzard will sell gold in the gamestore via some backdoor method, akin to current token system.

some players will be frustrated by long gy runs. blizzard will use the modern gy locations, which are several times more prevalent than in classic.

[Eliseus]

Just in case anyone missed this poll.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/728212106605039617

[Struggle]

Activision-blizzard will see the problem from an entirely different perspective. legacy servers should be made for those players to play also, and tuned appropriately.

here are some more -

some players will complain about the time to level. blizzard will reduce xp/level needed, and also allow players to purchase a 'boost' to 60 in the gamestore.

some players will not be happy with the issues with lvl 40/60 riding, and its cost. blizzard will make mounts 20/40, and greatly reduce mount cost. also, for players that need that extra helping hand, blizzard will sell gold in the gamestore via some backdoor method, akin to current token system.

some players will be frustrated by long gy runs. blizzard will use the modern gy locations, which are several times more prevalent than in classic.

I doubt that will be the case as it's the reason we're arguing for Legacy servers in the first place. If you introduce a bunch of post-Cataclysm shit to the Vanilla game you managed to both increase production cost and alienate a large chunk of the people you're doing this for in the first place.

[Froggy]

Just in case anyone missed this poll.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/728212106605039617

Cool. I voted to keep the original models. If Blizzard does in fact make legacy servers, I don't want to add any extra workload for them. And the new models doesn't add to my enjoyment of the game.

[Deficineiron]

I doubt that will be the case as it's the reason we're arguing for Legacy servers in the first place. If you introduce a bunch of post-Cataclysm shit to the Vanilla game you managed to both increase production cost and alienate a large chunk of the people you're doing this for in the first place.

remember we are talking about activision-blizzard. accessible is their watchword. also your assumption they would be doing this for the legacy server crowd may be in error - they would be doing it for a much broader group of people and would tune it appropriately. the legacy server crowd would be told it was for them, of course.....

my point

folks at blizzard, perhaps even some in blizz mgmt, likely care about classic wow. activision-blizzard could not care less about all that ephemeral stuff. they make the game for the broadest audience possible.

[Eliseus]

Cool. I voted to keep the original models. If Blizzard does in fact make legacy servers, I don't want to add any extra workload for them. And the new models doesn't add to my enjoyment of the game.

Same basically. My hopes are that we experience everything as was during that era. I feel it will ruin the experience to say "Let's have a progression server, but with all the current mods to the game"

[Struggle]

remember we are talking about activision-blizzard. accessible is their watchword. also your assumption they would be doing this for the legacy server crowd may be in error - they would be doing it for a much broader group of people and would tune it appropriately. the legacy server crowd would be told it was for them, of course.....

my point

folks at blizzard, perhaps even some in blizz mgmt, likely care about classic wow. activision-blizzard could not care less about all that ephemeral stuff. they make the game for the broadest audience possible.

That's wrong though. Activision-Blizzard, while clearly not short of faults, is a corporation and their goal is to make money. Period. Not cater to casuals, not give us Legacy players our servers because of some moral obligation...they are there to sell a product for you to buy.

Now, that said, the product is Vanilla/BC/WOTLK Warcraft. The reason people are wanting these servers in the first place is they're sick of the current retail game. It follows that if they want to make money with the Legacy product, they need to sell it to Legacy players. Which means excluding things like level boosting, in-game stores, different difficulties in the case of Vanilla/BC, reitemization...etc. If they include those things, we won't buy it, and the best they can hope for is the current player base to be inclined to buy it. Well, you've already got their money...they're playing and happy with live retail. So you just wasted all that capital on Legacy servers for no reason. Thus, you don't get the new subscribers or people to resubscribe, you don't even get your investment back most likely. Corporations aren't big on flushing money down the toilet that could be used to pad their wallet further.

I agree, but you also are talking about vanilla here. I don't know how many times classes were changed drastically through out the games life cycle, probably the most compared to any other expansion that came out. Especially the talent systems, and people will remember classic in a wildly different way from one another. It's a huge issue already that I think many people have brought up before: Do you actually go through the patches like normal, or just sit at the end patch? Regardless, I do understand the want and need to preserve the feel of old WoW.

I just wish they would at least create a version that actually addresses old problems while trying to keep intact the old feeling. Viability is a great thing, and I would love to see it happen. I honestly don't know if anyone would be crying if boomkins were viable in raids, or druid tanks could finally take a beating -- let alone a prot paladin.

It may be a possibility in the future, but this is a "cross that bridge when we come to it" scenario imo. As far as static 1.12 vs dynamic patching, they could do both and it's still general enough to attract enough players. If that's all successful maybe then work on a custom Vanilla server with reitemization, class balance, etc.

[Dormie]

There's facets of old WoW that people forget were even a thing. Gold as a part of the game is hardly a thing anymore, you used to want to make gold because you needed it, so any gameplay that made you gold was as rewarding as say something now that makes you valor or apexis. Gold now is about as useless as pets or achievements. I used to do the BC Isle dailies for gold, not rep or gear. That 90-100g or w/e it was was pretty substantial.
Little things like that, and like having to actually read quest text to find out where you were going.

[SoBBeN1]

There's facets of old WoW that people forget were even a thing. Gold as a part of the game is hardly a thing anymore, you used to want to make gold because you needed it, so any gameplay that made you gold was as rewarding as say something now that makes you valor or apexis. I used to do the BC Isle dailies for gold, not rep or gear. That 90-100g or w/e it was was pretty substantial.
Little things like that, and like having to actually read quest text to find out where you were going.

ya same here dailies for the gold to keep buying those flask/pot for raiding, money was worth something.

[PenguinChan]

Little things like that, and like having to actually read quest text to find out where you were going.

People already made classic addons to circumvent this (Many years after, private server versions), and carbonite for TBC is definitely a thing. People will just download these en masse I believe as well.

[AeneasBK]

People already made classic addons to circumvent this (Many years after, private server versions), and carbonite for TBC is definitely a thing. People will just download these en masse I believe as well.

Yeah kinda bums me out when I read "Where is X, my questie is bugged and took me to the wrong place"; especially in those instances where it states pretty explicitly in the quest text where you have to go

[Deficineiron]

Yeah kinda bums me out when I read "Where is X, my questie is bugged and took me to the wrong place"; especially in those instances where it states pretty explicitly in the quest text where you have to go

I think current game design views any expectation of reading comprehension in order to complete basic game objectives to be elitist.

there were quests where the general direction they sent you was a pretty large area and you might have to walk around quite a bit to find the objective. Oh the horror, walking around and trying to find something in an MMO. thank goodness daddy blizzard made the bad confusing questies go away.

there were quests that you could fail for not seeing a small object - I did scourge data pre-2.3 and the first time I didn't see that tiny, tiny box on the ground. that might have been an extreme case. others were easier pre-2.3, the murlock chests in wetlands, bags of oats, cactus apples, etc.

[PenguinChan]

Yeah kinda bums me out when I read "Where is X, my questie is bugged and took me to the wrong place"; especially in those instances where it states pretty explicitly in the quest text where you have to go

I don't mind either system, especially when the reading one just tells you where to go through the summary. But otherwise there are systems in many different games where they basically say "Go here" through an area marker. FFXIV is notable for this, where it tells you the general area, but doesn't hand hold you to find the things.

[Feeline10]

Just in case anyone missed this poll.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/728212106605039617

This guy doesn't even work for Blizzard anymore. Between his Twitter and his video he's a complete and utter tard.

[AeneasBK]

there were quests that you could fail for not seeing a small object - I did scourge data pre-2.3 and the first time I didn't see that tiny, tiny box on the ground. that might have been an extreme case. others were easier pre-2.3, the murlock chests in wetlands, bags of oats, cactus apples, etc.

I could go look up the name of the quest, but for me it was the one as part of the Nightbane quest for Karazhan where you have to go find a scorched bone in the village outside, not an insignificantly small area, and the thing is tiny and half buried in the side of a hill.... THAT took some hunting and I even knew what it was I was looking for :O

[Thimagryn]

By that logic CS:GO splits the player base. Me getting up to take a leak splits the player base for a minute!

Time investment is the whole reason why splitting player base actually matters for an MMO and not so much for a round-based FPS. The game is designed to invest your time to obtain gear. It's heavily reliant on stats rather than relying purely on skill. WoW's end game is not designed around pick-up-and-play.

So yes, you can use the logic of taking a leak for CS:GO, but it would be flawed logic.

[Deficineiron]

I could go look up the name of the quest, but for me it was the one as part of the Nightbane quest for Karazhan where you have to go find a scorched bone in the village outside, not an insignificantly small area, and the thing is tiny and half buried in the side of a hill.... THAT took some hunting and I even knew what it was I was looking for :O

i vaguely remember that too and it was off to the sdie and over the nearest hill to the instance, iirc. not obvious at all.

scourge data was the worst as iirc it was the first time you saw a little case that small in the game as a clickable object (maybe the only one), and you of course had to clear much of UD stratholme to get to it....in retrospect I felt that adding quest text mentioning to look carefullly because it was very small would not have been inappropriate.

[Eliseus]

This guy doesn't even work for Blizzard anymore. Between his Twitter and his video he's a complete and utter tard.

Yeah Blizzard will never give him the time of da.................. Oops.

Don't vote. Problem solved.

[Deleted]

Time investment is the whole reason why splitting player base actually matters for an MMO and not so much for a round-based FPS. The game is designed to invest your time to obtain gear. It's heavily reliant on stats rather than relying purely on skill. WoW's end game is not designed around pick-up-and-play.

It most certainly is. Not for mythic raiders, but for casual players, after the initial time investment playing WoW is very much pick-up-and-play. I don't really see this splitting the player base argument anyway, there already are pve/pvp/rp/rp-pvp servers and different regions.

[Deficineiron]

It most certainly is. Not for mythic raiders, but for casual players, after the initial time investment playing WoW is very much pick-up-and-play. I don't really see this splitting the player base argument anyway, there already are pve/pvp/rp/rp-pvp servers and different regions.

take it a step further - the game has been for years intentionally designed as pick-up-and-play - all the catch-up mechanisms, everyone on the SAME raid, etc., is geared towards letting a player come back after however long and immediately be in the same raid as everyone else (maybe not same difficulty).

classic and to a good degree bc were not pick up and play (yes bc had badge gear but to get a *single* 150 badge item in 2.4 you were going to play /played days to earn it unless you just did kara lockouts for *7* weeks for 1 item.....). you could quit and come back, but you would be exactly where you left off.