Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

We didnt have any DPS warriors. Maybe the RL was gimping us. It was just so hard to find tanks. We had 5 and stuck with them.

I am talking very early Molten Core.

Near the end in Naxx40 a couple of them started getting the itch to DPS, and a couple did in TBC (wearing mostly leather). However we needed them to tank to make any progression.

You still had to offtank the bosses who needed it. But you did not need a single point in prot. That was as horde and an orc of course. With windfury almost always present.
Windfury procs that produced Sword Spec procs which lead to Hand of Justice procs, all of which could proc themselfs and everything else were bliss.
The only downside was, that you were the last one allowed to begin attacking the boss and sometimes still got executed almost instantly from pulling aggro, in case everything did proc at the same time. But those were fun deaths.



PS. We had to leave warriors (and yes most of them tanks) out of raids, especially in MC. So maybe we were lucky. We had like 15 raid ready warriors in the first guild I was in. We always left people behind, except for dudus. We were low on dudus, all the time.

To be honest balance shmalance. Especially in PvE. Beeing hell bent on making everyone perform the same lead to stripping the classes of their identity. You had slow attacking specs, fast specs, self healing specs, group buffing specs. I personally hated the way rogues had to play and for the most part now feel like every meele plays the DDR style of vanilla rogues. Same goes for casters. Maybe they have their own gimick, but at the end of the day mana does not matter. They are ranged rogues with combo points and skills which build on each other so better not to misstep your DDR session. Perfect balance is one class and no talents. We got rid of talents and the classes are almost identical.

I liked the imbalance of vanilla wow. It made things interesting and possible for shitty players to raid, because they could battle rez the MT.

[Kyanion]

Thank you for explaining to me why message board discussions exist. Would you next like to opine about the color of the sky... or perhaps the relative saturation of dihydrogen monoxide... or maybe the airborne velocity of an unladen swallow?

What do you mean? An African or European swallow?

[Jeniwyn]

The balance problem is not enough tanks. One or two take a vacation and shit we cant raid tonight.

If you had a heal spec you healed.

I am not Anti Legacy, but why would we want to go back to this imbalance?

You just have one of your many DPS warriors tank. Oh, right, lol. :P

Frankly because the game worked with 9 classes per faction.

With 34, its a mess, and it leads to horrible principles such as "bring the player not the class" where everyone has to be able to do everything or it doesn't work.

In principle, I guess I would be fine with a druid being able to spec into exactly a prot warrior, basically a spec that cannot ever leave bearform. But I wouldn't be in favor of most practical solutions. At least not any variant where prot paladins are both decent tanks AND get to keep consecration or such shenanigans. Real AoE tanking is a scourge upon the game. The only reason that I would in principle not be against the druid stuff is that tank shortage for 5 mans / small raid content was a real issue, perhaps the single biggest issue.

[Struggle]

The balance problem is not enough tanks. One or two take a vacation and shit we cant raid tonight.

If you had a heal spec you healed.

I am not Anti Legacy, but why would we want to go back to this imbalance?

You say imbalance, I say variety. I pretty much didn't raid in Vanilla and I know it was bad then, but BC to me was ideal. PvP and PvE were both fun, each class had a uniqueness, and to me it added depth to the game. Plus, they complimented each other. Spriests were a mana battery for healers and a nice damage boost for warlocks, who in turn used curse of shadows to boost spriest damage, along with curse of elements that boosted mage damage, and curse of weakness for your poor AoE prot pally.

Imbalance isn't always a bad thing.

[Deleted]

You just have one of your many DPS warriors tank. Oh, right, lol. :P

Frankly because the game worked with 9 classes per faction.

With 34, its a mess, and it leads to horrible principles such as "bring the player not the class" where everyone has to be able to do everything or it doesn't work.

In principle, I guess I would be fine with a druid being able to spec into exactly a prot warrior, basically a spec that cannot ever leave bearform. But I wouldn't be in favor of most practical solutions. At least not any variant where prot paladins are both decent tanks AND get to keep consecration or such shenanigans. Real AoE tanking is a scourge upon the game. The only reason that I would in principle not be against the druid stuff is that tank shortage for 5 mans / small raid content was a real issue, perhaps the single biggest issue.

You say imbalance, I say variety. I pretty much didn't raid in Vanilla and I know it was bad then, but BC to me was ideal. PvP and PvE were both fun, each class had a uniqueness, and to me it added depth to the game. Plus, they complimented each other. Spriests were a mana battery for healers and a nice damage boost for warlocks, who in turn used curse of shadows to boost spriest damage, along with curse of elements that boosted mage damage, and curse of weakness for your poor AoE prot pally.

Imbalance isn't always a bad thing.

100% this. Our first Nef kill was with a dps warrior as MT, because horde had to stance dance the fear away and our normal MT was shitty with stance dancing.

For PvE the whole argument for balance is moot, unless your raid is more of an UBRS group.

[Struggle]

You just have one of your many DPS warriors tank. Oh, right, lol. :P

Frankly because the game worked with 9 classes per faction.

With 34, its a mess, and it leads to horrible principles such as "bring the player not the class" where everyone has to be able to do everything or it doesn't work.

In principle, I guess I would be fine with a druid being able to spec into exactly a prot warrior, basically a spec that cannot ever leave bearform. But I wouldn't be in favor of most practical solutions. At least not any variant where prot paladins are both decent tanks AND get to keep consecration or such shenanigans. Real AoE tanking is a scourge upon the game. The only reason that I would in principle not be against the druid stuff is that tank shortage for 5 mans / small raid content was a real issue, perhaps the single biggest issue.

It seems to me that the tank shortage back then was over-remedied. They made leveling easier so you could spam alts, made tanking far too easy, and then have everyone who had a tank spec the same tools for equality. Stops your tank shortage problem, sure, but the collateral damage is tanking being boring without challenge as well as the ramifications to hardcore raiders who now have to have multiple alts geared up at the ready and be skilled with them. Hell, even in BC once you had some Tier 6 and a couple Hyjal/BT items threat was no longer an issue unless it was AoE tanking. The only thing about tanking that's gotten more difficult is cooldown management. Not timing them, of course, that might be challenging. Just remember to press them every 30s/1m/2m so they keep rolling and you become a pain in the ass to kill as well as snagging enough threat to AFK the last half of the encounter.

[Jeniwyn]

It seems to me that the tank shortage back then was over-remedied. They made leveling easier so you could spam alts, made tanking far too easy, and then have everyone who had a tank spec the same tools for equality. Stops your tank shortage problem, sure, but the collateral damage is tanking being boring without challenge as well as the ramifications to hardcore raiders who now have to have multiple alts geared up at the ready and be skilled with them. Hell, even in BC once you had some Tier 6 and a couple Hyjal/BT items threat was no longer an issue unless it was AoE tanking. The only thing about tanking that's gotten more difficult is cooldown management. Not timing them, of course, that might be challenging. Just remember to press them every 30s/1m/2m so they keep rolling and you become a pain in the ass to kill as well as snagging enough threat to AFK the last half of the encounter.

Absolutely.

There is no doubt in my mind that the limited abilities players, tanks among them, had in vanilla was the key reason that dungeons were by far the most enjoyable then. We were freaking weak, and had to adapt. As an added bonus, if you were really good, that was very noticeable because of this. The quality of the dungeons themselves has gone up since then, we are just so strong with all our cool abilities that nothing is scary. This is perhaps the best example of less is more that I know of in all of gaming.

[Deleted]

Regarding the legality of private servers and the bullshit of blizzard removing Nost.

[Namalia]

Exactly. He is just trying to start trouble. Maybe it's to try and get more people to go to his stream. Must be jealous of the other streamers.

You seem awfully obsessed with someone you don't seem to like.

Even going so far as to try to slander & attack him with your signature.

I think I'll report you to the mods.

[Darsithis]

Here's my idea for how I would design a playable mode to cater to Nostralius players:

The Problem: Everyone has their own definition of the 'best' time of World of Warcraft, be it Vanilla, TBC or WOTLK. However, I think most people unanimously agree that 'Nostalgic' WoW doesn't really exist beyond Cataclysm.

The Solution: Take advantage of the wealth of old-world content to create a unique game-within-a-game in World of Warcraft, that attempts to emulate the same conditions that made the Nostralius Private Server a positive experience. This is not an attempt to create a Vanilla server, rather, an entirely new gameplay option for a different target market segment of players.

The Target Market Segment: WoW players who remember Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK content fondly, but do not want to pay a subscription to play the 'Full' WoW.

I introduce... World of Warcraft: Beginnings.

Lore: The world of Azeroth is filled with mighty adventurers, who always answer the call of battle and unquestioningly defend their world against any foe. They have defeated ancient evils and brutal tyrants, and have even risen to the top of the archetypes that they represent. These mysterious heroes have become household names, and equal in strength to the Warcraft Universes greatest figureheads, such as Thrall, Jaina and Arthas. However, these adventurers once came from humble beginnings, and the stories of these nascent heroes are remembered fondly by those who experienced them. Introducing World of Warcraft: Beginnings, a unique World of Warcraft experience that explores the content of expansions past.

Free to Play Forever with the purchase of the World of Warcraft Battle Chest.

Play to Level 80 for Free, with experience gains similar to those back in the day.

New Dungeon and Raid Difficulty: Legacy. All Dungeons and Raids are tuned to be appropriate for a level 80 endgame. Vanilla, TBC and pre-ICC dungeons and raids tuned to ICC levels, dropping loot with ICC itemization. Essentially, way too much relevant content.

No-hands held: Matchmaking Systems (LFD/LFR) completely disabled. Players must queue for PvP from an NPC located in the Battlegrounds respective entrance Areas. Significantly slower leveling rate. Heirlooms unavailable.

Full access to previously locked features: Unlike the Starter Edition, Beginnings does not restrict Whispers, Party/Raid formation, guild creation, AH/mailbox use, gold cap, etc.

Contemporary Class Design and Player Models: Take advantage of modern Models for both players and enemies.

Players above level 80 can still participate in content with Beginning Players, by visiting an NPC they can toggle their level to 80, and all of their stats and equipment will be removed, and can only wear 'Legacy' quality gear from Legacy difficulty Dungeons and Raids. Players who become unsubscribed are automatically leveled down to 80 and their gear is placed in their bags, and their characters can still fully enjoy WoW: Beginnings.

Aside from the leveling, how is this different from the idea of a pristine server? Wasn't the pristine server idea supposed to be all about no auto-finder/slow leveling kind of thing?

[Eleccybubb]

Regarding the legality of private servers and the bullshit of blizzard removing Nost.

Fact is they aren't. Not anti legacy or anything but they are illegal at the end of the day.

- - - Updated - - -

Also slightly off topic but a specific server that I won't name has basically been a scam. Lead dev is rerouting it to another site from what I read and trying to funnel donations.

[TCGamer]

Fact is they aren't. Not anti legacy or anything but they are illegal at the end of the day.

- - - Updated - - -

Also slightly off topic but a specific server that I won't name has basically been a scam. Lead dev is rerouting it to another site from what I read and trying to funnel donations.

Yeah. It's all over the wowservers subreddit.

[Kyanion]

Also slightly off topic but a specific server that I won't name has basically been a scam. Lead dev is rerouting it to another site from what I read and trying to funnel donations.

Was that the one that was getting DDOS'ed s well or was it another one?

[Eleccybubb]

Was that the one that was getting DDOS'ed s well or was it another one?

I think so. But yeah shame that one guy spoiled it for everyone.

[Kyanion]

I think so. But yeah shame that one guy spoiled it for everyone.

Well if it was a scam as well as getting DDOS'ed...then yeah they were boned one way or another it seems.

[Eleccybubb]

Well if it was a scam as well as getting DDOS'ed...then yeah they were boned one way or another it seems.

Well yeah but admittedly when you create a big project like that and one guy fucks it all up it is unfair is it not?

[shoc]

Aside from the leveling, how is this different from the idea of a pristine server? Wasn't the pristine server idea supposed to be all about no auto-finder/slow leveling kind of thing?

I see it as different from Pristine Servers in that Pristine Servers try to provide a 'fresh start' for players, with slow leveling and no hand holding.

The proposal I wrote is more like an expanded version of the Starter Edition, on currently live servers, that gives players a platform to raid and experience Vanilla/TBC/Wrath content at the appropriate difficulty.

Essentially the biggest problem I see with Legacy server proposals is that once you let players play at Vanilla, then whose to say that they can't add TBC and WOTLK servers? So in my attempt to solve that problem, I proposed "why not all of it at once"?

I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's an idea at least.

[Struggle]

I see it as different from Pristine Servers in that Pristine Servers try to provide a 'fresh start' for players, with slow leveling and no hand holding.

The proposal I wrote is more like an expanded version of the Starter Edition, on currently live servers, that gives players a platform to raid and experience Vanilla/TBC/Wrath content at the appropriate difficulty.

Essentially the biggest problem I see with Legacy server proposals is that once you let players play at Vanilla, then whose to say that they can't add TBC and WOTLK servers? So in my attempt to solve that problem, I proposed "why not all of it at once"?

I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's an idea at least.

It's a good concept as far as "approaching a middle ground" goes, I guess. I still wouldn't return to the game for them personally but a few friends who are current raiders might enjoy playing it.

The problem is people want to play those games again, though. Not just do those raids in modern WoW. The gameplay difference from Vanilla to Wrath alone is gigantic. Then you've got the real sticklers who flat out want Vanilla. Period. No QoL changes, no graphics updates, no major bug fixes. None of it. JUST vanilla. Then there's people like me who want those old games back, but don't mind some QoL and bug fixes brought to them so long as it's still that game. There are some that would play on both an old school pure Vanilla server and will buy Legion.

There are so many possibilities for a 'middle ground' that alienates what pro-Legacy people want in the first place, and one of the major factors for Blizzard is seeing a financial benefit from doing so, otherwise why do it? The only way that will come about is if both are provided. Old school servers that run those games unmodified, and the current farm that will host Legion. Keeps things simple (porting old versions of WoW without having to modify the actual game code would be far less time consuming/expensive), and it's clear cut. You can play Vanilla as it was, BC as it was, Wrath as it was, Cata as it was, MoP as it was, Warlords as it was, or Legion as it is. Pick your poison, special snowflakes need not apply. Everyone's happy.

[TCGamer]

Was that the one that was getting DDOS'ed s well or was it another one?

They claim they got DDoS'd during their initial "launch", but nobody knows how true that is. The whole project was shady from the beginning.

I do know (from following the wowservers reddit page) that there are several pirate servers being DDoS'd (and one has shut down permanently because of it.)

[Deleted]

You seem awfully obsessed with someone you don't seem to like.

Even going so far as to try to slander & attack him with your signature.

I think I'll report you to the mods.

Talk about obsession the guy that was proud of posting reports to blizzard about nostalrius

The guy that comes everytime here only to be toxic.

Amazing how hard some people try