Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

Me too, I dont care to spend 2-3 hours for clearing BRD, but at least to skip the cancer part where you spam LF xxxx at IF/SW, then find a tank, going to BRD, tank DC or leave, go back to IF (2 hours wasted)

but if they start to "fix" any "meh" we remember from vanilla, the final product will not be a legacy vanilla server and maybe this will be the break for some Legacy Supporter.

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Mythic Guarm is draining my forcewill.

What is that? a new pokemon in your game? did you catch it?

[Deleted]

There's plenty of successful games from blizzard, pretending that Starcraft for example, while popular, was on the same scale as WoW is completely silly. Great game, no disagreements there, as successful as WoW? Not even close.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO??? MCFLY??? Anyone home?
Are you SERIOUSLY denying the success of SC as being the most successfull RTS world wide? yes it was as successfull as your precious vanilla wow.

[MoanaLisa]

A large difference between OSRS and just Legacy servers is that OSRS is adding new content that is consistent with the OSRS feel and look. They just added a whole new continent for members. I am not sure how happy the community is, but it keeps the game alive and well.

In order for Blizz to take a similar approach, they would need to create content that keeps the vanilla feel, including graphics and difficulty. How you would do that is beyond me (if even possible, since WoW's development time and OSRS development time is vastly different)

That is two separate World of Warcraft MMO's though. I don't think that idea is even on the table. If that's what it takes to keep "legacy" (which would no longer be legacy) alive, then you might as well give up immediately. Whatever is or isn't going to happen with Blizzard, I can't imagine that it will be this.

[Deleted]

One issue with classic is that in all candor it wasn't made for everyone to see everything, though a player who played enough could see most of it (higher raids excepted).

SOrry thats utter bullshit, wow was made from the start for the casual. Dont try to claim otherwise.

[PenguinChan]

SOrry thats utter bullshit, wow was made from the start for the casual. Dont try to claim otherwise.

The difference between casual then and now is vastly different. Just because it was targeted towards a certain audience back then, doesn't mean it'll target that very same audience now. I don't disagree with you though, World of Warcraft was the more casual MMORPG you could play during that time period.

Meaning, the casual individual today probably won't invest the hours needed for some raiding guilds. Granted, in today's environment and skill level I doubt it'll take the infamous 4 - 8+ hours of total playtime in a raid to clear it.

[Kyanion]

What is that? a new pokemon in your game? did you catch it?

Can you stop with the petty insults because you don't like retail?

[Zequill]

Sorry but i really don't like to be LABELLED as "the lfr player base you seem to be part" from somebody who never played vanilla

You will prob quit legacy vanilla server on the 3 week...


The "scheduled hardcore raider" isn't the 100% of the player base, the MC event during WOD showed us that people are way too deep in the "whipe=left" istant-gratification issue.


Meanwhile doing a TW version of Old raids, and tweaking them properly, can just give a taste of their former glory, and see if this "test" is worth because if they can re-ignite the interest in old wow, with actually no cost at all.

Wow you are wrong.

A) Been playing since Open Beta. I was stuck in MC during vanilla because my guild was stuck there and I have never been the guy that love leaving guild and I never taught I could be with those that clear top content. Looking at what I have done, I was wrong.

B) I did play legacy. I was stop when the event that lead to the creation of this thread happened. So I got kick out 5 months in.

C) I know scheduled raider (no need to be hardcore for that) are not 100% of the player base. The MC was in a LFR format and what you saw there was LFR player so yes, those are "kill first try or I out".

D) Stop with the TW version. Old raid was all about each dps class having a role outside of just dpsing. Mage decurse, Hunter de-erange, warlock Banish. You cannot bring that now, you cannot ask right now a warlock to sit right next to a mobs the entire fight to banish him or he might break and kill everyone, partial resist making the time the mobs debanish random.

[RickJamesLich]

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO??? MCFLY??? Anyone home?
Are you SERIOUSLY denying the success of SC as being the most successfull RTS world wide? yes it was as successfull as your precious vanilla wow.

Man this guy doesn't know how to read well lol. I didn't deny Starcraft's achievements at all. World of warcraft last time I checked was the top grossing game of all time. Here's an article:

http://www.businessinsider.com/here-...me-2012-6?op=1

You wont' see Starcraft on that list. Of course the list is a few years old, perhaps WoW has been surpassed? I can't be bothered to check. I'd say typing in caps lock doesn't make you look very bright, but that was probably the least worst part of your post.

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Because it can be a motivator? Simple as such.

*Can* doesn't mean *is* lol.

The stretches you make here would make Plastic Man pull a muscle attempting something like that. Seriously, that was never my argument. Not even close.

You must suffer from amnesia.

Funny how you assume I'm only talking about the end-game dungeons.

I didn't assume that. Ready to concede this point now?

Same as vanilla WoW.

Not anymore lol.

Funny how you assume I'm only talking about the end-game dungeons. (x2)

You're talking about skipping content that gives you upgrades, and then wonder why some people had trouble getting into end game dungeons lol. It's like one of those riddles where the answer is revealed in the question.

So you're saying that once you found a weapon with "good speed", you'd never find another weapon with good speed until a few dozen levels ahead? There was no way you could find a better weapon in just a level or two?

Not likely, and eventually you would find a better weapon that might be a lower speed - but that would be a difference of many levels in the vast majority of cases, outside of 60 raiding gear.

This entire paragraph only confirms you know nothing of not only how to differentiate an emulation from the real deal, but you also know nothing about server implementation and how businesses work. Seriously, if you had even an inkling of an idea, you wouldn't go saying nonsense like "to pretend this is a massive financial undertaking that could jeopardize Blizzard is rather silly". It's not something done with pocket change. Not at all.

Putting is simplified in layman's terms for you: gotta buy more server hardware; transfer or hire, then train developers to work on adapting the old source code to work with the new server hardware AND integration with the new Battle.Net; also keep said developers to work on whatever issues may arise during the game's life, do weekly maintenance, and develop new patches to make sure the game works on new hardware that will be released in the future; transfer or hire, then train people to be customer support for vanilla, on forums, e-mail and phone.

Of course, there's much more to it than just that, but like I said, I'm just simplifying it to layman's terms for you.

Again, blizzard had the option of having that done for free. Why train when you already have people willing to do that for you? Not to mention blizzard workers have said the hardware required would be considerably cheaper than when they originally made the game.

You claim I'm "putting words in your mouth", but that couldn't be further from the truth. You are doing a perfect job at that, yourself. Seriously. You claim you never said they're the same thing, yet on the same paragraph, you basically say so, by saying other people, with less resources, have been able to do it, when all they did was to use emulation. Seriously, are you even reading what you're writing, at this point?

We've already seen other legacy games already fit into the battle.net and former blizzard employees have gone on record as saying that this would not be expensive and would consume *some time* but at the same time would make far more money than the costs itself, in particular Mark Kern. Plus who says that blizzard can't use what Nostalrius built?

I started posting rules? So you're saying that the post from Moanalisa that I quoted when the mod restates and explains the rules somehow came after I quoted Moanalisa? Seriously, do you even read what you write, anymore? People was getting infracted before I started to point out to you the rules, because, at that point, you were basically the only one still defying the rules.

Infractions happened shortly after you started this jazz with "I'm gonna tell on you to the mods" lol. We can read between the lines man, you are embarassing yourself here. First you were acting like a tough guy about running to the mods, now you deny it.

Seriously. Stop lying. I never baited anyone. But if you keep making stupid, unfounded accusations against me to try to make me look bad to others, I'll just put you on ignore if you cannot have civil discourse without constantly resorting to libel.

To be frank I'm surprised you aren't threatening to call the cops.

"Zero costs". Again, you show zero knowledge about the differences between emulation and the real thing, plus have shown an incredible naivete to believe it would truly be "zero costs" for Blizzard.

Ok, let's say blizzard doesn't accept the offers to do it for free - the hardware they need is far cheaper than when they originally started the game. The one risk that they have here is time, which based on the success of past servers, is a small cost compared to the margins of money they stand to make.

It gives us as much a chance at an "educated guess" as the alien movies from Hollywood give us a chance at an "educated guess" about how aliens look like. In other words: zero. For the simple fact they're emulations completely destroy any real possibility it could give us an "educated guess" at how the real deal operates.

If one is successful, it's pretty clear that the real deal can be successful as well.

[Ielenia]

*Can* doesn't mean *is* lol.

"Can" means "it can be". Now if you want to claim that "it isn't", then you better start providing evidence of your claims.

You must suffer from amnesia.

In other words, you have no evidence to back up your claim, so you joke around.

I didn't assume that.

You only mentioned situations with endgame dungeons.

Not anymore lol.

Yes. Just like in Vanilla WoW, you can go from first level to max level without grouping up even once.

You're talking about skipping content that gives you upgrades, and then wonder why some people had trouble getting into end game dungeons lol.

Funny how you assume I'm only talking about the end-game dungeons. (x3)

Again, blizzard had the option of having that done for free.

No, they didn't!
Seriously, a bunch of basement-dwellers developers-wannabe criminals writing scripts to use on an emulation program they did not create is NOT THE SAME THING as a real developer working with the real server code, re-writing metadata and adapting the server code to work with the new server hardware. Honestly, it's getting tiresome to constantly hear that tired, old non-argument that can be debunked by anyone with even a drop of common sense.

Why train when you already have people willing to do that for you?

Because those people would require EVEN MORE TRAINING than a person they hire through normal means, right?

Not to mention blizzard workers have said the hardware required would be considerably cheaper than when they originally made the game.

former blizzard employees have gone on record as saying that this would not be expensive and would consume *some time* but at the same time would make far more money than the costs itself,

Oh? They have? Then I'm sure you can produce a quote from them saying that, right? Considering it goes against what they said up until this point.

in particular Mark Kern.

You're evoking Mark Kern's name. People just don't learn.

Plus who says that blizzard can't use what M built?

BECAUSE WHAT THOSE <CRIMINALS> HAVE IS JUST EMULATION SCRIPTS!! BLIZZARD DOESN'T DEAL WITH EMULATION SCRIPS!!! What is wrong with you?! You just CANNOT be that dense!!

Infractions happened shortly after you started this jazz with "I'm gonna tell on you to the mods" lol.

Will you STOP with the lies? I never said anything of the sort!

Ok, let's say blizzard doesn't accept the offers to do it for free - the hardware they need is far cheaper than when they originally started the game.

First off: they haven't accepted it. Second: prove it. Show the prices of the server hardware Blizzard used back in 2004 and today.

If one is successful, it's pretty clear that the real deal can be successful as well.

No, it's not. Why do you keep insisting in this idea that both are interchangeable!?

[Mahourai]

D) Stop with the TW version. Old raid was all about each dps class having a role outside of just dpsing. Mage decurse, Hunter de-erange, warlock Banish. You cannot bring that now, you cannot ask right now a warlock to sit right next to a mobs the entire fight to banish him or he might break and kill everyone, partial resist making the time the mobs debanish random.

The reason this didn't continue on from Vanilla is because it is bad, boring gameplay - and was so at the time.

[Relapses]

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO??? MCFLY??? Anyone home?
Are you SERIOUSLY denying the success of SC as being the most successfull RTS world wide? yes it was as successfull as your precious vanilla wow.

If you consider the fact that SC provided basis for current professional eSports, which has become one of the single most (if not, the most) lucrative video game industries in the world, it is a magnitude of millions of times more successful than WoW ever was. But yeah, let's go ahead and pretend that a boring, 12-year-old version of WoW is somehow on the same footing.

[Deficineiron]

For the record, group finder is good design and would have worked fine in Vanilla. In fact, the meeting stone system shows that Blizzard already wanted an automatic group finder as early as 1.3.

I would absolutely kill for a Vanilla server that had meeting stones and innkeepers actually form viable parties, much less teleport you to the dungeon. Not everyone who would play on a legacy realm fetishizes time-wasting tasks like group forming and taking 30 minutes to get to BRD.

You could strike a decent balance by roleplaying the interface up a bit - you go to the innkeeper, form a party, it black-screens and loads to your party maybe a couple minutes away from the dungeon somewhere. That way you'd still have to know where the dungeon was, areas like the Uldaman and Maraudon entrances would still be hellish like they were supposed to be, and you get tons more convenience as well.

I agree. even better would be random grouping for tbc heroics - that would be a sure-fire wild ride every time until group broke up after repeated wipes.

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SOrry thats utter bullshit, wow was made from the start for the casual. Dont try to claim otherwise.

Did you see everything? What % of players saw everything? what % of players saw everything but KT? what % of players saw everything but naxx and AQ?

what % of players cleared scholomance?

what % of active accounts at bc launch had lvl 60 toons????

vague claims of the relative casualness of wow then won't work in this conversation.

[RickJamesLich]

"Can" means "it can be". Now if you want to claim that "it isn't", then you better start providing evidence of your claims.

Already provided that proof, we've been over the discussion, remember?

In other words, you have no evidence to back up your claim, so you joke around.

It looks like you should read the quote right above this one from yourself. You were just saying something along the lines of "if one person plays because it's free this is right".... this is why you aren't convincing anyone on your opinions lol.

You only mentioned situations with endgame dungeons.

You only brought up situations with endgame dungeons so I responded accordingly.

Yes. Just like in Vanilla WoW, you can go from first level to max level without grouping up even once.

In one, not grouping is highly inefficient, in the other, grouping up is not necessary at all. That's the difference.

Funny how you assume I'm only talking about the end-game dungeons. (x3)

As long as you mention it "taking forever to get into groups" in vanilla, I'll keep reminding you of this

No, they didn't!
Seriously, a bunch of basement-dwellers developers-wannabe criminals writing scripts to use on an emulation program they did not create is NOT THE SAME THING as a real developer working with the real server code, re-writing metadata and adapting the server code to work with the new server hardware. Honestly, it's getting tiresome to constantly hear that tired, old non-argument that can be debunked by anyone with even a drop of common sense.

Ugh, yes they did. Who said they would need the developers to re-write the metadata? They already have the completed game as it is. You are introducing a scenario in which they create extra work for no reason.

Because those people would require EVEN MORE TRAINING than a person they hire through normal means, right?

Like I said, no need to train someone when they can get it done for free by someone with the knowledge.

Oh? They have? Then I'm sure you can produce a quote from them saying that, right? Considering it goes against what they said up until this point.

According to Mark Kern, team lead for the original game: "As for hardware, I’ll say this…what took hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear to host the original WoW servers can now be done for far less. Server hardware is so much better now, storage is so much faster now. We have VMs and cloud servers that can be spun up and down on demand. The Nostralrius servers only cost a few hundred dollars a month to run. Bandwidth is so much cheaper. The hardware is not the issue. Support is not the issue. They have more GMs now than we ever planned for or need for vanilla WoW. They have better tools than when we launched, that’s not a real issue."

You're evoking Mark Kern's name. People just don't learn.

If Mark Kern is lying entirely, why did blizzard invite him along with the private server team to their HQ? Let me guess, it's a conspiracy?

BECAUSE WHAT THOSE <CRIMINALS> HAVE IS JUST EMULATION SCRIPTS!! BLIZZARD DOESN'T DEAL WITH EMULATION SCRIPS!!! What is wrong with you?! You just CANNOT be that dense!!

Who said blizzard is not allowed to deal with them? lol. You? Now it appears you are the one being dense

Will you STOP with the lies? I never said anything of the sort!

Now you are going back to denial. You played the tough guy act and are now pretending you didn't do what you did.

First off: they haven't accepted it. Second: prove it. Show the prices of the server hardware Blizzard used back in 2004 and today.

I don't need to show the prices, Mark Kern himself, a team lead with knowledge on the game has said it. Someone with credibility, i.e. not you lol.

No, it's not. Why do you keep insisting in this idea that both are interchangeable!?

Nobody said they were interchangeable lol. Rather there's enough similarities between the two where it's easy to understand why one success would imply the other one would be successful as well, plus we've already seen this type of thing done with Runescape.

[Kyanion]

Did you see everything? What % of players saw everything? what % of players saw everything but KT? what % of players saw everything but naxx and AQ?

what % of players cleared scholomance?

what % of active accounts at bc launch had lvl 60 toons????

vague claims of the relative casualness of wow then won't work in this conversation.

While I don't totally agree with how he said it, you have to agree that WoW was the casual/easier choice of other games out at the time, mainly Everquest. Very few people in Vanilla did many of the things you listed I agree, but 12 years ago there was no question what games required far more dedication to the painful grind, keying for zones, punishing death mechanics and so on.

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Infractions happened shortly after you started this jazz with "I'm gonna tell on you to the mods" lol. We can read between the lines man, you are embarassing yourself here. First you were acting like a tough guy about running to the mods, now you deny it.

Actually I was one of the people chain reporting any post that started talking about forbidden topics as I don't want this thread to close because of that shit. But really, accusing Ielenia of running to mods with no proof at all is really weak.

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I agree. even better would be random grouping for tbc heroics - that would be a sure-fire wild ride every time until group broke up after repeated wipes..

That is a scary as hell thought, considering the amount of CC required in some of those heroics.

[RickJamesLich]

Actually I was one of the people chain reporting any post that started talking about forbidden topics as I don't want this thread to close because of that shit. But really, accusing Ielenia of running to mods with no proof at all is really weak.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[Kyanion]

Like I said, no need to train someone when they can get it done for free by someone with the knowledge.

Working an emulator =/= to what it would require to have realms running with Blizzard specs.

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Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Think what you will, you have no proof of who has reported posts. It is just really sad watching you toss out those accusations however.

[RickJamesLich]

Working an emulator =/= to what it would require to have realms running with Blizzard specs.

So blizzard has not been able to update any legacy games accordingly?

Think what you will, you have no proof of who has reported posts. It is just really sad watching you toss out those accusations however.

It's ok to be naive my man, at some point you will be a bit more wise.

[Kyanion]

According to Mark Kern, team lead for the original game: "As for hardware, I’ll say this…what took hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear to host the original WoW servers can now be done for far less. Server hardware is so much better now, storage is so much faster now. We have VMs and cloud servers that can be spun up and down on demand. The Nostralrius servers only cost a few hundred dollars a month to run. Bandwidth is so much cheaper. The hardware is not the issue. Support is not the issue. They have more GMs now than we ever planned for or need for vanilla WoW. They have better tools than when we launched, that’s not a real issue."

Don't know why you bother on invoking Kern here. What he did 12 years ago isn't what they'd be doing in 2016 to make these servers happen. And besides that, if it was just as easy as you claim why haven't these servers been out for a while now? So easy, coulda been done months ago right?

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So blizzard has not been able to update any legacy games accordingly?

Oh so now Legacy WoW would be as simple as converting Diablo2? Get real. You just make yourself look foolish saying this.

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It's ok to be naive my man, at some point you will be a bit more wise.

As you have done many times in this particular thread you jump to conclusions and make wild assumptions. Hell if it were me and I was being accused of what you are blaming Ielnia for I'd try and get a super mod involved to prove that I wasn't reporting posts that were breaking the rules. But then again, the posts were BREAKING THE RULES of the thread so they should have been reported so this thread stays open.

[Ielenia]

<snip>

I'm done with you. You never present evidence, and to keep believing that an emulation, which is nothing but a haphazardly-assembled patchwork of pieces, held together by spit and glue, is the same thing as a real server code, something Blizzard explained, and even certain people accepted the explanation, but you still refuse to accept reality.

On top of that, you keep repeating the same lies about me, over and over, over and over, to the point of becoming ad-hominem, and you refuse to either present proof of your accusations, or stop repeating them. You just keep going.

I'm done with you. You can keep living in your own little bubble where emulation servers are the same thing as real servers, and that decade-old programs that are split apart in multiple version saves and have bits and parts of it missing are easier to adapt to current hardware than it is to adapt current programs to current hardware.

You're in my ignore list, now. I'm done with your lies and delusions.

[RickJamesLich]

Don't know why you bother on invoking Kern here. What he did 12 years ago isn't what they'd be doing in 2016 to make these servers happen. And besides that, if it was just as easy as you claim why haven't these servers been out for a while now? So easy, coulda been done months ago right?

You're asking the million dollar question lol. All sorts of possibilities why. Perhaps blizzard is worried that releasing an older version of the game will be admitting faults with the current product? Or maybe it really is *that* tough to actually release it? Or perhaps they think there really is not much interest in older games? All sorts of possibilities. I'm not claiming to hold all the answers here, just engaging in a fun debate. What Kern says about the software makes sense too, given all of the technological advancements, it's hard to believe that the hardware side of things would be a big financial issue. Back to the question though, given past comments like "you think you do but you don't" it's not a big stretch for many people that blizzard honestly thinks they know people will not enjoy a game when they've repeatedly been told the opposite.

Oh so now Legacy WoW would be as simple as converting Diablo2? Get real. You just make yourself look foolish saying this.

We've already seen it done with other games, Runescape for example, we have just seen the Nintendo Classic sell out of stores lol. Will it require some work? Sure. Is it impossible? Nah. Worth trying out? Given the market and what we've seen, my opinion is that it makes complete sense to try it.

As you have done many times in this particular thread you jump to conclusions and make wild assumptions. Hell if it were me and I was being accused of what you are blaming Ielnia for I'd try and get a super mod involved to prove that I wasn't reporting posts that were breaking the rules. But then again, the posts were BREAKING THE RULES of the thread so they should have been reported so this thread stays open.

Sound logic - report posts in thread so the thread won't close down. You must not frequent these forums often.

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I'm done with you. You never present evidence, and to keep believing that an emulation, which is nothing but a haphazardly-assembled patchwork of pieces, held together by spit and glue, is the same thing as a real server code, something Blizzard explained, and even certain people accepted the explanation, but you still refuse to accept reality.

On top of that, you keep repeating the same lies about me, over and over, over and over, to the point of becoming ad-hominem, and you refuse to either present proof of your accusations, or stop. You just keep going.

I'm done with you. Keep living in your own little bubble where emulation servers are the same thing as real servers, and that decade-old programs are easier to adapt to current hardware than it is to adapt current programs to current hardware.

You're in my ignore list, now. I'm done with your lies and delusions.

You've been ducking points I've made over and over, come up with lame excuses like "legacy servers won't do well because people want to play for free", get debunked, and then change topics and can't admit to being incorrect. Good riddance.