Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Relapses]

That might actually be useful as a conclusion. (Sure, if you do some kind of a FAQ, some will object and come with their own FAQs, but that's completely fine.)

I used to write FAQs for GameFAQs so I'm not completely alien to the concept. It's just been awhile since I've had the desire to make another one.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The whole attraction of classic WoW is pretty simple. Some people like different things. WoW used to be a different kind of RPG to the one that it has morphed into today (you could argue it isn't even an RPG any more, but that's another debate).

If Blizzard had any sense, they would have accepted that some people like to play WoW in different ways, and kept a loose grip on gameplay that would allow more choice. Instead they seem to have made the decision that their game has to be played in a specific way, and choked any possibility of choice out of it.

Some people like complicated rotations? Fine, have classes that are more complicated to play, and other that are simpler. Some people like pushing the envelope of build possibilities? Fine, keep the skill trees and let people find weird and interesting things to do with them. Some people like wandering around the world their own way? Fine, keep plenty of options for how people can move through a zone.

Instead they simplify the rotations, prune the abilties, tear down the skill trees and put the zones on rails. Then they wonder why a large proportion of their players no longer like the game they make.

I don't believe there are many people that genuinely want to play Vanilla again, especially on a private server that is always going to be one lawsuit away from closing. What they want is to be able to play new content, on the game that they love, in the way they want to play. And as long as Blizzard keep cutting down the options for HOW the game is played, it doesn't matter a rats arse whether they put out a tiny amount of content or a massive amount. There will still be a bunch of players that are unhappy.

What would I do if I were in charge? Well, I wouldn't introduce new servers. I would simply introduce new ways of playing. Let people create "locked to 60" characters, that can then experience that content in their current guild, on their current servers. As time goes by, introduce 70, 80, 85, 90, 100 versions of that, and let people play multiple levels of the content at the same time if they want.

You would then get new sub-cultures forming, but without breaking the existing social structure apart. People can still interact with everyone playing different versions. And an individual can play many different versions if they want to. More choice for the players, fewer unhappy players.

And you could stick in a whole bunch of new rewards around the achievements for doing this. So that people feel like they have a reason for doing it.

I don't doubt there would be technical difficulties in doing this, but this is all just off the top of my head. So be gentle.

[Eleccybubb]

I have to agree with @rda at this point. This thread is just going in circles and circles and will continue to do so. I'll happily admit I have been embroiled in debates that have just gone in circles. I just don't see the point to it being open anymore. Yes the mods make the rules but at the end of the day everything that can be discussed has been.

[Deleted]

Fact is: Nost > Retail

--SNIP--

Do not link to private servers

[Eleccybubb]

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Opinion is: -snip-> Retail

Fixed that for you. Would advise you learn the difference between the two for the future.

[fbscarel]

Again, and I don't know how many times I need to stress this, this is not a thread for you to discuss your experiences on a private server. That isn't allowed here. It has never been allowed here; the original thread was about a very noteworthy shutdown that led to Blizzard themselves discussing it and has been repurposed since.

Very well. I personally don't see the purpose of this thread, but that's beside the point.

Being that the case, see you later then. Enjoy your forums, and your game. I'll find another community to share my viewpoints with.
Cheers!

[Deleted]

Why is it good that you can skip HM/BRF straight into HFC? or EN/TOV straight into NH?

Cause this system was beaten to death in TBC and it was HORRIBLE. Do A to be able to do B so you can do C.

I mean for real, they have to LOCK LFR for WEEKS just because if it was open immediately, people would be done instantly.

TBH thats complete bs these days cause now people do Normal and are done lorewise the first week...

When NH comes out nobody will care about EN/TOV, even if they never did it - and if they do, it will be trivial with the new gearing.

Damn I dont see you complain that now one has to do everything till wod to play legion.

The whole reason that Legion has SO MUCH RNG on items is that they want to keep people PLAYING the same thing over and over again because there's no actual content for the casual player to progress, so they'd quit otherwise.

yet there is a lot more content then wod will ever have
and the rng part is pretty much blown up by people - loot was allways rng now they just perfected that syystem to make old content longer viable (what you wanted)....

[Deleted]

Fact is: Nost > Retail

--SNIP--

Do not link to private servers

Why posting bullshit?

[Ielenia]

Since you expanded upon it. No it's really not. I've played those dungeons and they are not hard whatsoever. Time consuming is the word I'd use to describe them. Major difference between a challenge and a time sink.

To be fair... considering the vast numbers of new games and new updates being released almost weekly, it can be a challenge, in and of itself, to devote the necessary time to go through Legacy.

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Again, and I don't know how many times I need to stress this, this is not a thread for you to discuss your experiences on a private server. That isn't allowed here. It has never been allowed here; the original thread was about a very noteworthy shutdown that led to Blizzard themselves discussing it and has been repurposed since.

Nor am I interested in hearing "well, shut the thread down!". This thread's purpose is for discussing classic World of Warcraft (as you remember it), legacy servers, and pristine servers (if they ever appear) as well as any official news from Blizzard relating to any of the above.

Naming private servers, linking to them, talking about them, comparing them to each other or to retail World of Warcraft will not be tolerated.

Y'know something MMO-Champion's forum could use? A way for mods to sticky a specific post in a thread, so said specific post always shows up at the top of the thread page, no matter which page the reader is, that way mod rulings are always on-screen for them.

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My opinion is: <snip> > Retail

Seriously!? Despite a mod ruling just one page ago, you still insist on this?

[McNeil]

Again, and I don't know how many times I need to stress this, this is not a thread for you to discuss your experiences on a private server. That isn't allowed here. It has never been allowed here; the original thread was about a very noteworthy shutdown that led to Blizzard themselves discussing it and has been repurposed since.

I really think that discussing private servers in a thread about legacy servers is inevitable, because these experiences they have in private servers can also be used in discussions for why they would love to see legacy servers. Whether these experiences are positive or negative, I think they properly provide reasons of why Blizzard should or should not consider legacy servers. Now in a lot of cases, without the vanilla experience that can be experienced today, we get a lot of people with only very vague memories of how they experienced vanilla in 2004 with a very one-sided view. And these kind of posts barely contribute anything. Or people who haven't even played vanilla in any way just parrot other people to improve their stance on the discussion. In these cases its not exactly making this thread healthy, so I'd suggest to consider allowing private server talk to solely take place in this thread alone. Though I do find that linking to sites or videos should still be forbidden, and basically any kind of advertising thats not part of a discussion.

[Donald Hellscream]

Fact is: Nost > Retail

--SNIP--

Do not link to private servers

I don't mean to be insulting but are you dyslexic? Can't you read the rules that says the crap you are spewing isn't tolerated and in no way the point of this thread?

You sure aren't being a shining example of a good pro-legacy player thats for sure.

[Deleted]

To be fair the mods have really stifled any potential talk about private servers, which is kind of ridiculous considering the title of the thread.

thats because this thread is about classic wow and not where/how and why to find ps

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Allow a 3rd party team to lease the rights to patch 1.12.1 (only, and under strict regulation with an immediate termination clause) and in return allow them to serve as the only sanctioned Legacy server.

Not gonna happen
#1 you wouldnt find anyone who could afford that
#2 blizzard standard of quality

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The achievement system came in the 3.0 patch, hence in TBC (last patch before WOTLK).

3.x is WOTLK everything 2.x is TBC
I know you and logic

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Get the fuck out Blizzard fanboy! And btw I have Nightbane Mount, Trinket and Chest and did enough Mythic+ Dungeons. Deadmines at Level18 is way more challenging than Kara or any Mythic+. Try tanking at level18 on Nost - its way harder than any Class at Maxlevel Retail.

And these is the kind of guy you really think would pay money to his enemy blizzard to play legacy?

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Y'know something MMO-Champion's forum could use? A way for mods to sticky a specific post in a thread, so said specific post always shows up at the top of the thread page, no matter which page the reader is, that way mod rulings are always on-screen for them.

I second that for all MEGA threads.

[Vash The Stampede]

I've actually been debating whether I should compile information from this thread to create a huge pro- and con- list for Legacy (to help with the repeat debates) but I'm not sure if the subject compels me enough at this point.

The problem with this is there's a lot of bias. My pro vs con list would look different to yours, and you would most certainly disagree with some. JonTron hates live and that's why he seeks Legacy servers. Some people do it for nostalgia. Some people just want to play the original just to see how it was. Everyone has different reasons.

If Blizzard had any sense, they would have accepted that some people like to play WoW in different ways, and kept a loose grip on gameplay that would allow more choice. Instead they seem to have made the decision that their game has to be played in a specific way, and choked any possibility of choice out of it.

Blizzard is trying to make everyone happy, but that usually results in nobody being happy. That's why modern WoW has 4 raid difficulties instead of one. Hardcore? Play Mythic. Casual? Play LFR. But back in MoP people who did Heroic raids and got Heroic gear were hated for World PvP, and it's been nerfed since. On the other hand, casuals were getting free gear from the PvP system and that pisses off the hardcore. This is just an example of how much this game tries to please both sides.

I don't believe there are many people that genuinely want to play Vanilla again, especially on a private server that is always going to be one lawsuit away from closing. What they want is to be able to play new content, on the game that they love, in the way they want to play. And as long as Blizzard keep cutting down the options for HOW the game is played, it doesn't matter a rats arse whether they put out a tiny amount of content or a massive amount. There will still be a bunch of players that are unhappy.

People on legacy servers joke about LFR and questing in modern WoW. It's not just how you play, but how the game is setup for everyone.

What would I do if I were in charge? Well, I wouldn't introduce new servers. I would simply introduce new ways of playing. Let people create "locked to 60" characters, that can then experience that content in their current guild, on their current servers. As time goes by, introduce 70, 80, 85, 90, 100 versions of that, and let people play multiple levels of the content at the same time if they want..

People want that classic feel again, and doing what your doing won't work. People don't want modern talents, and don't want the store and etc. They want the game setup the way it was, down to wall jumping.

[ckooken]

Instead they simplify the rotations, prune the abilties, tear down the skill trees and put the zones on rails. Then they wonder why a large proportion of their players no longer like the game they make.

I don't believe there are many people that genuinely want to play Vanilla again, especially on a private server that is always going to be one lawsuit away from closing. What they want is to be able to play new content, on the game that they love, in the way they want to play. And as long as Blizzard keep cutting down the options for HOW the game is played, it doesn't matter a rats arse whether they put out a tiny amount of content or a massive amount. There will still be a bunch of players that are unhappy.

What would I do if I were in charge? Well, I wouldn't introduce new servers. I would simply introduce new ways of playing. Let people create "locked to 60" characters, that can then experience that content in their current guild, on their current servers. As time goes by, introduce 70, 80, 85, 90, 100 versions of that, and let people play multiple levels of the content at the same time if they want.

You would then get new sub-cultures forming, but without breaking the existing social structure apart. People can still interact with everyone playing different versions. And an individual can play many different versions if they want to. More choice for the players, fewer unhappy players.

And you could stick in a whole bunch of new rewards around the achievements for doing this. So that people feel like they have a reason for doing it.

I don't doubt there would be technical difficulties in doing this, but this is all just off the top of my head. So be gentle.

Too true. If they would of kept things like more varied rotations, expanded upon their skill tree instead of pruning it to oblivion, and made the zones more open and sandbox-like...you would probably still see me playing retail constantly. Another area where you fail to mention is the community. The community on retail is near non existent. In vanilla, you were encouraged far more to group up and socialize.

[Halicia]

In vanilla, you were encouraged far more to group up and socialize.

The flipside of that though, is that even if you USUALLY group up and socialize... sometimes I would play at off-times (day off, or late night, or whatever) and sometimes I just had a bad !#$%ing day and just wanted to kill stuff without dealing with other people. At many points in early WoW I was just "Well, I guess I should just go play another game then... cuz if I want to solo at this point I either have to slum in lowlevel zones or... fish."

Its easier to get group content going now that there's an incentive to be doing solo content.

[SirBeef]

The flipside of that though, is that even if you USUALLY group up and socialize... sometimes I would play at off-times (day off, or late night, or whatever) and sometimes I just had a bad !#$%ing day and just wanted to kill stuff without dealing with other people. At many points in early WoW I was just "Well, I guess I should just go play another game then... cuz if I want to solo at this point I either have to slum in lowlevel zones or... fish."

Its easier to get group content going now that there's an incentive to be doing solo content.

The only "socializing" I had to do while leveling up and raiding outside of being friendly and participating in guild chat/activities was to spam LFM when I needed to run a dungeon or a hard elite quest like the epic mount quest. Outside of that I soloed my way to 60 and it required little to no socializing.

I meant to quote the guy you quoted.

[Ielenia]

What would I do if I were in charge? Well, I wouldn't introduce new servers. I would simply introduce new ways of playing. Let people create "locked to 60" characters, that can then experience that content in their current guild, on their current servers. As time goes by, introduce 70, 80, 85, 90, 100 versions of that, and let people play multiple levels of the content at the same time if they want.

Such a feature already exists in the live game. You can speak to Behsten (Alliance) or Slahtz (Horde) and lock your XP gain on your character, preventing any and all XP gain until you speak to the NPC again to once again enable XP gain on that character.

[Teri]

You CAN however design your mmo in a way that if you dont group up / people refuse u that you dont get jack shit.

Vanilla was that way before redesigns and later patches, unless you got a world drop blue or epic, which was usually not even level 60, 99% of non-dungeon gear was like green with stupid stats, later on they did a ton of retuning on quest and dungeon drops and stat reworks, yes even before TBC.

Later on yes we had pvp rank gear, dungeon blues, tier 0.5 epics, and 20 man ZG/AQ 20 gear, but pretty much before diremaul and the strat/scholo updates most loot was really really shit, people would do early molten core in greens, and use weird mechanics like spell penetration.

[Granyala]

You CAN however design your mmo in a way that if you dont group up / people refuse u that you dont get jack shit.
The maxim of this was FF XI

If you want to see your MMO die a quick death, yep.
You could do that.

[Kallisto]

I dont know why you getting tilted but would appricate to read the post you are quotting while giving a supposed smart ass replay, i already mentioned a game which dont died a slow death because of it

But also didn't gain growth a game with the name Final Fantasy should have done which was actually a franchise with a higher fanbase than Warcraft. FFXI came out at the right time (Just before/after wow depending on your place in the world), had the fanbase larger than warcraft and had what you were talking about. Yet they never went above 400k active subs at one time and is in decline since then.