Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Viikkis]

the dog ate the secured version backups at all off-site locations?

Why the heck would one keep backup files for 10 year old server code?

[Deficineiron]

Well link the source then please...

As someone working in the software development Business that's totally unimaginable that someone would actually completely delete their old working code and not make any form of backup...

If Blizzard has srsly ever officially said that, well... Blizzard wouldn't be a Company, Blizzard would be a joke.

Ah I see they found you

[Ringthane]

blizzard are stupid really

1. players want classic servers so they go play on one
2. blizzard closes private server
3. blizzard doesnt add classic servers

and they wonder why they lose subs and stuff when they dnt listen to there playerbase, a classic server wouldnt even need maintaining that much

Take a few hours and go through the forums here. That's the playerbase. Look at all the threads, all the differing ideas, all the differing opinions, all the godawful suggestions, and complaints, and whines, and chaff. Really look at them. See the things that people are asking for and their reasoning behind those things.

And then ask yourself why Blizzard doesn't listen to them.

If your answer is anything other than "Thank all that is good and holy that Blizzard doesn't listen to those goons", then I don't know what to tell you. Myself, I'm glad Blizzard doesn't cave in to the childish whims of some of these people.

[RobertMugabe]

/tinfoil on.

I'll say it again. This Reeks like a Blizz Beta test/market research gimmick.

If not, explain to me how the "founders" of Nos didn't know this was imminent? I would love to play a Legacy server but wouldn't touch this with Charlie Sheens you know what.

There are plenty of places they could have set this up more or less outside the reach of U.S. Attorneys. Places that would give no cares. (see Pirate Bay for a working example of how its done.)

They chose France.

My only explanation to all this is, that the devs are can't afford a lawyer and are scared of Blizzard.

As far as I'm concerned, it would be very hard for Blizzard to actually win and Close a private server in the EU, as this is somewhere in a grey zone (up to legal).

There's a couple of other private servers which are even bigger and older than Nostalrius( + make profit), located in the EU(France, Germany, Poland...)!

[Redroniksre]

the dog ate the secured version backups at all off-site locations?

Well when the code can be in no way be reused then there is no point in saving it? Or do you think they can just plug the new code in and it works? Have you forgotten about all the changes that have happened over the years? Particularily Battle.net? That is why it would takes months just to make new server code.

[parcus]

RIP Nostalrius, you were better than retail is ever gonna be.

[Ringthane]

Why the heck would one keep backup files for 10 year old server code?

Now that would be a real example of doing something for nostalgia.

[AeneasBK]

My only explanation to all this is, that the devs are can't afford a lawyer and are scared of Blizzard.

Yeah I don't think there was ever a suggestion of fighting it. The papers were served and they did the right thing and shut down.

[Gadzooks]

Well the US Senate didn't pass a law against private WoW servers, it's "illegal" in the sense that you're violating the ToS which is sort of like being in breach of a contract. How far that extends I'm not entirely sure. ToS are more like rules you have to abide to to use a service, and if you violate them the service provider can deny you said service. Very rarely results in legal action.

The illegal servers are illegal because of copyright violations, not the users breaking the EULA that they agreed to installing the game and activating it. TOS covers the behavior you're expected to conform to within the game, the EULA covers your limited rights as a customer, and what Blizzard's rights are concerning their property. You really shouldn't comment on things like this unless you understand what's going on *and* what things like "TOS" and "EULA" are - that's mostly why this thread is as huge as it is, the sheer amount of misinformation, speculation, fantasy, and made up "facts" and childish opinions on morality.

[Deleted]

another classic server will come up there justl ike goldseller websites one gets shutdown and another 20 pop up, there will be another classic server dnt worry, only reason blizzard knew about it is cos of idiots streaming it

[Deficineiron]

Revenue isn't irrelevant. If it's going to provide $9mill in revenue p/a at a fixed & ongoing cost of $4.5mill then their return on capital is 2:1 which they will invest in.

A 1% increase in revenue from a easy low risk investment is great.

i have followed a/b and kotick over time, and he is pretty clearspoken that if a property or project isn't a 9-digit annual revenue potential, he isn't doing it.

I think classic server, not an LFR or gamestore version, could get into low-to-mid- 8 digits revenue pretty easily. It doesn't take that many subs to do so. there are any number of models for pricing/access they could use, that is almost a peripheral discussion.

I don't think they would do that for 1) lack of larger revenue potential and 2) institutional bias against promoting non-accessible products (yes they really do have a bias). the way classic worked as a game world is almost alien compared to how they measure 'success/fun' of wow now internally.

now would they turn it into an fast and easy leveling, LFR world with a gamestore and push it to their current crop of subs? well that is actually not too far-fetched down the road. 'relive the glory days of wow. kill cthun & KT (in a couple of months)'

[parcus]

another classic server will come up there justl ike goldseller websites one gets shutdown and another 20 pop up, there will be another classic server dnt worry, only reason blizzard knew about it is cos of idiots streaming it

They already said they'll release the code to whoever is interested. So we'll probably get to see good Vanilla servers soon again.

[doot]

In the case of vanilla WoW it's not really about not paying for most people. It's about playing a version of the game that they loved, they're vanilla enthusiasts, and many (not all) would probably be more than fine paying for a stable, reliable server supported by Blizzard. They love vanilla WoW, they bought the game and would love to keep playing it if Blizzard would let them.

It's like the original versions of Star Wars. If those would be made available on Bluray a lot of people would buy them, but George Lucas refuses to do so because in his mind the changes he made to the movies made them better and a lot of people think he's wrong, which is why enthusiasts have taken it upon themselves to recreate those original movies.

I never said people wouldn't want to play it ever. I was saying with the price tag to play the number of people willing to pay to make it profitable for blizzard goes down and down. As I said I'm fine with you wanting to relive the experience, but that doesn't mean you represent enough people to make it profitable.

My belief is that Vanilla servers would be price inelastic. Demand in this sense is based much more on the content and quality of product than on price.
There are no MMO's that come close to WoW in terms of gameplay so with a lack of valid substitutes you'll find that people will pay to play, as they currently do and have done for 12 years.

Particularly with the fan base who are likely going to be +23yrs old and on the whole have a larger amount of disposable income.

This going to sound harsh, but that is delusional if that were really the case then Nost would not have already be on its last legs from the cost of managing it. As stated by the server's caretakers they were going to lose it anyway.

[RobertMugabe]

It's illegal so I guess they did what they were legally entitled to do (well it can be tricky but a court decided here so I'll defer to their expertise). While I know as a person that I have been ethically at fault for infringing copyright, I still agree with the rational of intellectual property (if not with the legal framework for it in most places) and I think that private servers are in the wrong morally so Blizzard was defending its rights.
I understand that people may want a product and be angry that it is no longer available but that product was illegally distributed and none of us have a moral right to demand that someone else produces what we desire. If Blizzard ever believes that they would benefit from offering a legacy server they will. They most certainly do not at this juncture though and considering they are a fairly successful company I find it peculiar to claim I understand their market better than they do.

Blizzard only announced to sue them, but they haven't done it yet.

They have been successfully closing private servers in the USA, but I think that it has never worked in any EU-Country. That's the reason that pretty much all private servers are located there.

[zorkuus]

another classic server will come up there justl ike goldseller websites one gets shutdown and another 20 pop up, there will be another classic server dnt worry, only reason blizzard knew about it is cos of idiots streaming it

Why are you assuming the same idiots wouldn't be streaming the new one?

They already said they'll release the code to whoever is interested. So we'll probably get to see good Vanilla servers soon again.

Have fun with it while it lasts. Don't come crying here the next time you didn't learn from past mistakes and lost all your chars and progression again.

[FeralSynapse]

While it doesn't affect me in any way as I don't play in any private server, nor have any interest in playing an outdated version - it's obvious some people did.

And since it's not a matter of 'stealing' as it wasn't a direct competition, nor were they getting a profit out of the deal... I'm going to have to side with the "Blizzard did it cuz butthurt that people rather play an older, stale version than the Live version".

You gonna play the live version and enjoy their vision, gosh darn it!

It -was- stealing. Profits or not you cannot use intellectual property or something owned by another company without permission. They were using Blizzard owned characters, data-etc. You don't have to make a profit to steal something.

[Tuesdays]

Don't get me wrong. I played in vanilla. Yes, at the time, compared to any other MMO on the market, it was a great game. And it's still just as good now as it was then. But the game has improved so much since then it's ridiculous. My only issue with WOD was the lack of support (only 1 small content patch after launch), and hence the lack of content. If they had supported it with new content, WOD would've been amazing. I would not be interested in reliving vanilla myself.

Yeah, I think we can all agree that WoD was a filler so they could bring WoW back to it's glory with Legion. You can see the warlock class hall in a video data-mined during 5.2, they are definitely busy making the game better. Better being subjective, but I have a gut feeling it will be nothing like WoD.

Almost like Legion is a vanilla reboot, without all the awkwardness and bloat.

[Gadzooks]

My only explanation to all this is, that the devs are can't afford a lawyer and are scared of Blizzard.

As far as I'm concerned, it would be very hard for Blizzard to actually win and Close a private server in the EU, as this is somewhere in a grey zone (up to legal).

There's a couple of other private servers which are even bigger and older than Nostalrius( + make profit), located in the EU(France, Germany, Poland...)!

In what way is it a "grey zone" (which isn't a legal term, anyway, it's a purely speculative term used by people trying to justify crime)? France is a signatory of the Berne Convention, which gives Blizzard the right to sue for copyright violations, and France has to uphold them as well - and France has to conform to the EU copyright laws, which give Blizzard further protection and rights to pursue cases like this.

Just because they haven't pursued the other servers *yet* proves nothing.

The only thing you stated that has anything resembling reality is your first one. And that's easily proven given the people running the server have been pretty blunt that it's why they're shutting down.

[Queen of Hamsters]

blizzard are stupid really

1. players want classic servers so they go play on one
2. blizzard closes private server
3. blizzard doesnt add classic servers

and they wonder why they lose subs and stuff when they dnt listen to there playerbase, a classic server wouldnt even need maintaining that much

...And other days it's "no wonder why they lose subs when they listen to the playerbase!!"...
And "wouldn't even need maintaining" sounds nice, but if people were paying to play on the server I'm certain there'd be demands. Not to mention the technical stuff.

[Gadzooks]

It -was- stealing. Profits or not you cannot use intellectual property or something owned by another company without permission. They were using Blizzard owned characters, data-etc. You don't have to make a profit to steal something.

Why bother trying to educate those who are belligerently avoiding being taught anything? If you learn anything from this thread, is that there's a lot of people running around who will refuse to listen to reason, facts or reality to justify "I want", and will twist logic and facts to support that.

It's like the old saying by Robert Heinlein - "Don't try to teach a pig to dance, you'll just embarrass yourself, and annoy the pig."

All these pig lessons are why this thread is almost 250 pages, lol.