Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Queen of Hamsters]

That's hilarious given Blizzard's recent track record. The people who can't raid can just not opt in for it. The people who can't finish a heroic dungeon can just not opt in for it. The people who can't manage more than 3 skills can just not opt in for pvp. Is there a trend here?

Nono, the people unable to handle a certain DIFFICULTY of something, can opt in for the lower difficulty option. How is that weird? That's exactly how it should be...

[Deleted]

Nope.
Private servers are essentially players picking up their games and finding somewhere else to play. Not that I play on them but do support the principle.

You know you need a server side software so the game can work right? Nostalrius developers had to reverse engineer to be able to write scripts that mimic the server from Blizzard. So, no, its not just picking up their games and play...

[Tuesdays]

Well tbf, most of the people crying about the "lack of challenge" are asking that it's implemented, yet aren't seeking it out where it's been meant to be for how many years...?

The perceived challenge of Classic leveling came from shit tuning, shit gear, players having no experience and time restraints (since leveling WAS the content for non-raiders). Wtf would they have to do with leveling if it was to be made "challenging" by today's measurements...? It would become something 2% could accomplish, which is quite bad for an mmorpg with 110 levels...

Agreed they could add more objectives to the world that requires grouping, but it still wouldn't mean more of a challenge than say, the elites on Isle of Thunder...

I agree with what you say about early challenge, but people still demand challenge, yet can out gear every difficulty available. It's a never ending cycle of it being too easy, and we all know, if you remove the gear from say mythic, no one would do it. Why they try and make a hard mode that offers a means to bypass struggle is beyond me.

People complain about leveling being too easy while fully decked out in looms, it's just stupid.

If the game is too easy, you're probably too good, you've surpassed the average Joe, rank up there with super Sally, move on, find something else, maybe a hobby that doesn't require a mouse and keyboard.

I don't think people really know what they want, they just know that they want this game to fix it.

[Deleted]

Leveling and dungeons are both much harder in vanilla than they've been in live since TBC. Are they Dark Souls hard? No, but hard enough it keeps your interest and makes you think a bit. When its auto-win, its just insanely dull.

Never said otherwise (on TBC at least, because vanilla dungeons were not hard, just time consuming)... But still, Mythic dungeons are not auto-win... They are very difficult to the majority of the player base.

[Tuesdays]

And tell me... What is the emulator... emulating?

Oh c'mon man, be fair! You can't use logic like wtf man?!

/sigh

[Redroniksre]

You know you need a server side software so the game can work right? Nostalrius developers had to reverse engineer to be able to write scripts that mimic the server from Blizzard. So, no, its not just picking up their games and play...

Server side software is so easy to find these days it is ridiculous, not to mention Nost released the source code for theirs, guaranteeing at least a few clones will pop up, most likely with not nearly the same level of support though.

[Kithelle]

I like how Blizzard and the sycophant part of the fanbase act like old expansion servers are a garbage idea and nobody would play them yet stuff like this happens. When a team actually makes a competent private server, people flock to it in the tens of thousands, and Blizzard feels threatened. Not shitting on their right to defend their IP but shitting all over the people who want private servers is a fucking joke.

It's honestly pretty pathetic behavior to malign people who want old expansion servers simply because it isn't something you have any interest in.

Pic unrelated: not me for any genius who looks at my post:

10's of thousands? Where is your proof there was that many? Besides...10 of thousands = multi millions?

I guess Blizzard should break down and give in to a small fraction of their player base?

[Deleted]

Server side software is so easy to find these days it is ridiculous, not to mention Nost released the source code for theirs, guaranteeing at least a few clones will pop up, most likely with not nearly the same level of support though.

I didn't said that it was easy or hard, was just replying to the dude that ignored completely that the game to run needs a server side software...

[Queen of Hamsters]

Leveling and dungeons are both much harder in vanilla than they've been in live since TBC. Are they Dark Souls hard? No, but hard enough it keeps your interest and makes you think a bit. When its auto-win, its just insanely dull.

Hard in what way...? So if someone who tackles say, Mythic raiding and played Classic whilst current, was to enter Classic, he'd struggle? Because most accounts I see are "You died if you overpulled"...Ok, that's countered by not pulling like a moron. "Mobs hit harder so you had to drink or eat or wait between each mob"...Ok, see point 1. "It required you to read text quest"...Ok, I wouldn't call that a challenge since I managed to do so as a new n00b without a clue.

Also, how about when people did it the second time? Were they still as "challenged" by it? Was learning how to play not a thing back then which meant doing the same content for the oompht-time didn't bring with it any increased "skill" and know-how?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over them changing the leveling experience and spicing it up as an option for those of us that have leveled many characters that doesn't mean Iron Man, but I'd like to see some concrete examples of HOW this challenge-overhaul could be done...

[Marakesh]

Nono, the people unable to handle a certain DIFFICULTY of something, can opt in for the lower difficulty option. How is that weird? That's exactly how it should be...

Then why haven't heroic dungeons been hard since cata? I mean the whole point of them was to offer more challenging content to already existing instances and yet we now need a whole new mythic level? And some keystone to replay those mythic dungeons? 9 to 1 they'll nerf it and then promise some new titan mode next expac.

[Baconeggcheese]

As I said before, Blizzard isn't going to be much interested in supporting something of this scale for a theoretical audience of a few hundred thousand. And that number is up to question if it costs extra to access it. I'm not saying that Nost wasn't successful. It was. That's probably why it got closed. And even given 800K registered accounts, after a year, the number of active accounts had dropped to 150K, a little under 20% retention over the course of a year for a free and reportedly well-run server. Blizzard will absolutely think that's not worth bothering about.

Considering the number of individual activities on live that only maintain a steady few hundred thousand players and require more work than simply allowing such a server to exist... I'd say live disagrees with you.

You also don't seem to understand how the accounts vs active numbers work... Or are just being disingenuous. Wow's had over 100 mil accounts over its life span and its got less than 5% of them still active. It didn't have 800k accounts at its peak, it's had 800k accounts over the course of the year its been up with regular turnover like any game experiences and somehow managed to grow to 100k+ active players and was showing consistent growth. On a private server. That's infuckingsane.

Again, even if on live it matched this one single pserver (it isn't the only one), it'd be generating 1.5 million a month on sub fees alone and all it costs is hosting and minor dev time. Nost had 4 developers working on it and 24 total people staffed most of which were GM's. If you can't make a profit off of 1.5+ mil a month while paying 24 peoples salaries just to use the max number of people... I don't really see how a company wouldn't want just free money for minimal investment.

Whole concepts strange to me, think it more of a pride thing.

[arcaneshot]

I haven't kept up with Leg development, but there's really only going to be 4 leveling zones? When has WoW's scope ever been so... limited? I hope the amount of quests is comparable to MoP, but only four leveling zones seems like so small of a world to be spending the next two years in.

There's five leveling zones. What order you do the first four zones is up to you. The fifth zone (Suramar, 108-110) will always be the same. Suramar is currently not open on the Alpha.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I agree with what you say about early challenge, but people still demand challenge, yet can out gear every difficulty available. It's a never ending cycle of it being too easy, and we all know, if you remove the gear from say mythic, no one would do it. Why they try and make a hard mode that offers a means to bypass struggle is beyond me.

t.

900 wipes in HFC Mythic by the best players of the world, with all their preparation and skill and Mythic gear from previous tier.
The gear means a power creep, it doesn't mean you can bypass challenge. By the time you can fully outgear the mechanics, the content is outdated and there's new content to tackle. The bypassing of challenge, especially on a boss such as Mythic Gorefiend, comes from the players getting so good that it becomes a farm, and even then I've seen groups that have killed him 10+ times die on him...

[Deleted]

Then why haven't heroic dungeons been hard since cata? I mean the whole point of them was to offer more challenging content to already existing instances and yet we now need a whole new mythic level? And some keystone to replay those mythic dungeons? 9 to 1 they'll nerf it and then promise some new titan mode next expac.

Because of 2 reasons:

1) We evolve as players. Raid bosses mechanics are way more complex now than what they were in vanilla. Our rotations are way more complex now than what they were in vanilla (heck i spent 2 years only casting frostbolts and the random Frost Nova so i could trigger shatter or the random A. Explosion on AOE (But only when it became an instant))... We are better players now than what we were on vanilla (you had a 40 man raid with 30 clickers, 20 guys with wrong consumables or not caring at all about stats like spell hit or resistances)... So, things are easier for us now. Heroics were hard when they introduced, but became normal... Mythic was hard when introduced but became normal...

2) Blizzard has to cater the non-hardcore player base. Thats how you stay on the top with a 11 years game. If WoW remained as vanilla, with only 0.1% of the player base able to kill Kel'thuzad, or spending 1 year to get the full t2 set (if you were lucky), the game would be dead by now.

[Tuesdays]

Considering the number of individual activities on live that only maintain a steady few hundred thousand players and require more work than simply allowing such a server to exist... I'd say live disagrees with you.

You also don't seem to understand how the accounts vs active numbers work... Or are just being disingenuous. Wow's had over 100 mil accounts over its life span and its got less than 5% of them still active. It didn't have 800k accounts at its peak, it's had 800k accounts over the course of the year its been up with regular turnover like any game experiences and somehow managed to grow to 100k+ active players and was showing consistent growth. On a private server. That's infuckingsane.

Again, even if on live it matched this one single pserver (it isn't the only one), it'd be generating 1.5 million a month on sub fees alone and all it costs is hosting and minor dev time. Nost had 4 developers working on it and 24 total people staffed most of which were GM's. If you can't make a profit off of 1.5+ mil a month while paying 24 peoples salaries just to use the max number of people... I don't really see how a company wouldn't want just free money for minimal investment.

Whole concepts strange to me, think it more of a pride thing.

Pretty sure s/he know how they work.

You are comparing accounts over 10+ years, to accounts over 1 year, or less. Not taking into account 15 dollars a month vs absolutely free.

[Deleted]

I agree with what you say about early challenge, but people still demand challenge, yet can out gear every difficulty available. It's a never ending cycle of it being too easy, and we all know, if you remove the gear from say mythic, no one would do it. Why they try and make a hard mode that offers a means to bypass struggle is beyond me.

People complain about leveling being too easy while fully decked out in looms, it's just stupid.

If the game is too easy, you're probably too good, you've surpassed the average Joe, rank up there with super Sally, move on, find something else, maybe a hobby that doesn't require a mouse and keyboard.

I don't think people really know what they want, they just know that they want this game to fix it.

Well I feel the few things that blizzard have evolved with WOW are:

Graphics
Combat&Smoothness
Raid mechanics
Dungeon bosses
A few good ideas like acheivs and transmogs

But everything else is kinda crap, and the WORST issue is complete lack of content coming far too slow and ilevel loot all over the place. I know what I want it's just unlikely they will actually listen, they only listened to beta feedback and implemented some player ideas as things to do, they are completely deaf concerning gameplay.

[Deleted]

Considering the number of individual activities on live that only maintain a steady few hundred thousand players and require more work than simply allowing such a server to exist... I'd say live disagrees with you.

You also don't seem to understand how the accounts vs active numbers work... Or are just being disingenuous. Wow's had over 100 mil accounts over its life span and its got less than 5% of them still active. It didn't have 800k accounts at its peak, it's had 800k accounts over the course of the year its been up with regular turnover like any game experiences and somehow managed to grow to 100k+ active players and was showing consistent growth. On a private server. That's infuckingsane.

Again, even if on live it matched this one single pserver (it isn't the only one), it'd be generating 1.5 million a month on sub fees alone and all it costs is hosting and minor dev time. Nost had 4 developers working on it and 24 total people staffed most of which were GM's. If you can't make a profit off of 1.5+ mil a month while paying 24 peoples salaries just to use the max number of people... I don't really see how a company wouldn't want just free money for minimal investment.

Whole concepts strange to me, think it more of a pride thing.

And yet, they had problems finding people to pay for 300€/month for the hardware... You are failing to see that the majority of Nostalrius players would not pay 12€ to play the game. They would find another private server to play while crying that Blizzard are greedy bastards.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Then why haven't heroic dungeons been hard since cata? I mean the whole point of them was to offer more challenging content to already existing instances and yet we now need a whole new mythic level? And some keystone to replay those mythic dungeons? 9 to 1 they'll nerf it and then promise some new titan mode next expac.

I don't think the keystones are replacing mythic dungeons, they're a change to Challenge Mode access and attunement.
And basically it goes that normal = leveling version, Heroic = max level gearing for raids, Mythic = gearing catch-up and valor for upgrades but still dungeons requiring 5 people, not 20. Challenge modes have been timed for unique rewards and better gear. Legion changes it to be timed + new mechanics. With all the options offered, they wouldn't have a reason to nerf Challenge Modes.

And I don't remember those Heroics in Cata being hard. They took CC which isn't hard if you're even remotely coordinated. I felt sorry for healers in pugs though.

[pallyken]

On Nostalrius, bosses that on Vanilla took months to die, were being killed on 1-2 days. Most guilds had BWL cleared on the first 3 weeks from release. The raid dps was higher on BWL than what was needed to kill Patch on Naxx... So yea, the player base evolved A LOT.

It's akin to going back in time with a cheat sheet.

[Bleachbean]

Your argument failed because you did not buy a produce but a service with limited access time. Once that access time expires, you are no longer permitted access unless you renew.

Sadly you are just confused about what you were paying for. You didn't understand how WoW or mmos work. You paid for a game and 1 month of play time, then continued to pay for play time. Once you stop paying you aren't owed more, if the game changes you aren't owed what it was.

Unfortunately, that is not how video games work.
Its their product, and they own every single bit of it.
They are 100 percent in the right to shut down Nost, and if you don't enjoy what you think Blizzard took from you, then you are too closed minded for the internet.

creative way of trying to justify playing on a private server which is illegal.

Although shouldn't be amazed at yet another person who does not read the EULA/TOC.

Well there's your mistake: you clicked agree on the ToS without reading it.

Level of service being the provided servers. I payed for the game and I payed monthly for the servers to play on the for a limited time. Terms of use says they can change code if they want to and there's nothing I can do about it and that's fine, but I payed for the original vanilla game. So while they can technically change It since I purchased a copy, I have the right to resell or use the copy as I want under section 109 of the U.S. Copyright Act, I own it, its mine, it's unlawful for them to take that away from me they even disclaim in the TOS If any provision of this Agreement shall be unlawful, void, or for any reason unenforceable, then that provision shall be deemed severable from this Agreement and shall not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Very bottom in that fine print. Argument was i'm not a thief by playing on private servers, and in this case neither is blizzard so I was wrong in calling them that, but i'm entitled to play on the private server and use the assets I own. Nostalrius code is different as well so bliz can't even tack them for that, if Nostal had as good of lawyers as the big boys, they'd win the legal battle. Also you may notice in section 109 that it clearly states in section b of subsection A that you arn't allowed to copy a computer program. However, the section section b of subsection (B) states that this section is non inclusive of a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and may be designed for other purposes. I have a limited purpose computer designed to play games and designed for other purposes...I have a singular copy of world of Warcraft original gangster addition...that shit is mine to do with as I please! I guess I can't really speak for Nost since they are in France who knows what kind of laws they have....I'd say section b was made to protect digital music...and computer programs that arn't video games. I really hope no one has a counter argument cuzz that's all i got!

TL;DR I'm not a thief..Bliz fine print says if its illegal they can't hold you to it even if you agree...section 109 U.S copyright act, you bought it, its legally yours and no one can take that from you...section B sub A states this doesn't apply for computer programs...section B subsection b(ii) states video games are an exception to section B sub A.