Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deficineiron]

Its a much, much better casual pve experience than any mmo has produced before or since. Before playing on Nost I had forgotten a lot of that, and just dismissed the idea of vanilla as only being about nostalgia, but its not. Its the gameplay.

You are not the only poster to state that they had dismissed it as nostalgia and then tried it and decided otherwise.

if anything, the nost drama has given a number of people a better appreciation of how well designed and tuned wow was.

[Teebone]

I think he's suggesting we paid $60 for World of Warcraft only to have access to it taken away from us when they decided to dump on it with progressively worse expansions.

It's their game. You are only purchasing the right to play it. Stealing is stealing.

[arcaneshot]

I think he's suggesting we paid $60 for World of Warcraft only to have access to it taken away from us when they decided to dump on it with progressively worse expansions.

No, he's suggesting that EU doesn't have the same kind of copyright laws which have long since been proven that it does.

[threads]

blizzard just shut it down cause they were doing a better job of redeeming the WoW name than legion is. legion feedback is mostly negative at this point and having all the top streamers talking about vanilla servers all the time wasn't helping.

[Tuesdays]

US law is not applicable in the entire world you tool, it's nothing more than a fucking mod. That's it. Stop acting as if these people STOLE this. THEY PAID for it.

Already lost the argument by flailing about with insults.

So if I paint your computer and take it home, would it be legal? I mean it's just a mod of what you had right?

It's no longer yours, I emulated it to look like mine.

[Deficineiron]

Yea but like I said so long as nost uses different code, which as far as I know bliz doesn't have their stuff out there for the taking...Then by U.S copyright law nothing should be wrong..The server had bugs (that were fixed) no wow veteran had ever seen before, because the server was using different code no wow veteran had ever seen before. and either way I was arguing the point that people who owned a copy of wow weren't thieves...we had every right to enjoy the free server so all the bliz supportes who don't get it and who are saying us thieves deserve to not enjoy this awesome game anymore are just complete idiots...it literally doesn't effect them in any way so why bother make stupid comments about it...It's the internet I know, a beautiful thing that allows us to connect to friends and play some vanilla wow. Not anymore though, least until some one starts the nost server back up...could happen i'll keep hoping!

It may have come down to nost owners deciding they couldn't expect their playerbase to donate enough to fund a legal battle with blizzard, and who knows what their final expectation of such a case with their particulars in France would have been.

Just the THREAT of legal action in that jurisdiction is real in the sense they would expect to incur 100's of thousands of euros in legal fees before getting anything conclusively resolved. Lawyers don't work free for this kind of client.

[DeltrusDisc]

And within a hour or two from servers go live post would popup with OMG i pay money fix this this and this and patch this.


Kinda funny that some people cry about the lack of stuff to do and content and at the same time demand a vanilla server with even less to do and ALOT less content.

Yeah, Az pretty much said that. However, Blizzard could be very direct and forward with people saying, this is how the game will be. Maybe if a bug develops, we'll fix it, but you're getting the game as is in like patch x.xx.

[Tuesdays]

blizzard just shut it down cause they were doing a better job of redeeming the WoW name than legion is. legion feedback is mostly negative at this point and having all the top streamers talking about vanilla servers all the time wasn't helping.

I sure if you look for the negative, you will find it.

[Bleachbean]

I can't tell if posters like you just make this up as you go along, or if you actually believe the nonsense you post.

It's a very simple concept. Everything in the client was designed by and owned by Blizzard, under copyright law. Access to that content is only with Blizzard's .

Yea you were stealing man that's very illegal...I was not, early post stated this!....Bliz fine print says if its illegal they can't hold you to it even if you agree...section 109 U.S copyright act, you bought it, its legally yours and no one can take that from you...section B sub A states this doesn't apply for computer programs...section B subsection b(ii) states video games are an exception to section B sub A.

If ya don't believe me go read the last section in the wow TOS first time I had read it was today and I said eureka!

[Gadzooks]

US law is not applicable in the entire world you tool, it's nothing more than a fucking mod. That's it. Stop acting as if these people STOLE this. THEY PAID for it.

Go Google "Berne Convention". Then go read the copyright laws of the EU, that France has to uphold over their own law. US copyright law is supported and protected in France BY TREATY and by LAW.

You really should educate yourself before calling other people names. In fact, I'll do it for you. Go read this site:

http://www.rightsdirect.com/internat...yright-basics/

And tell me where US copyright law is not applicable in the EU. I'll wait.

[satimy]

Already lost the argument by flailing about with insults.

So if I paint your computer and take it home, would it be legal? I mean it's just a mod of what you had right?

It's no longer yours, I emulated it to look like mine.

He would no longer have a computer, Nostralius didn't make WoD cease to exist.

[Gadzooks]

Yea you were stealing man that's very illegal...I was not, early post stated this!....Bliz fine print says if its illegal they can't hold you to it even if you agree...section 109 U.S copyright act, you bought it, its legally yours and no one can take that from you...section B sub A states this doesn't apply for computer programs...section B subsection b(ii) states video games are an exception to section B sub A.

If ya don't believe me go read the last section in the wow TOS first time I had read it was today and I said eureka!

Yep. Making it up as you go along. I thought so.

[Gref]

I can't tell if posters like you just make this up as you go along, or if you actually believe the nonsense you post.

It's a very simple concept. Everything in the client was designed by and owned by Blizzard, under copyright law. Access to that content is only with Blizzard's consent and permission. You have no rights to the content in the client, regardless of what server you use to access it. Period, end of story, every court this has been tested in has upheld it, in the US and the EU, and not just for Blizzard's content.

Your premise, and I laughingly label as such, is based purely on a childish idea that you have some right to a product that is no longer on the market, and your need to lash out at anyone who points this out to you by calling them "idiots".

It really astounds me, the blatant and almost purposeful disregard for anyone else's rights, in the name of made up rights, in this thread. Some of you are in for a rude awakening some day, when you enter the real world. I can only imagine you'd have to be a kid in school with no real world experience to post anything claiming rights to someone else's work.

Back when I used to dabble in downloading MP3s, at least I was honest that i knew I was stealing, and admitted it. I didn't make up fairy stories about "rights' I think I have over the material.

Someone said the word "stealing" has been missed in this thread. I think "rights" has been abused much, much, much more.

Holy fucking shit sir, I salute you! Especially that mp3 part. almost 300 pages. there are other explanations too but yours, this one fucking nails it. Well fucking said.

[Tuesdays]

He would no longer have a computer, Nostralius didn't make WoD cease to exist.

Blizzard didn't remove 1-60 either.

[Deficineiron]

Oh I don't doubt it, as I said, they were hard for the players of the time.

I would rather say they were hard, period. Threat was still a very real part of the game, and when pulling that blood furnace grunt onto a dps, and he can one-shot with a white attack and a yellow attack with a crit on either, it is a totally different level of challenge. You had to know heroic boss mechanics or you would fail. various mobs had special abilities that had to be interrupted or they cc'ed or the group would likely wipe. The oh-shit buttons were on 30 and 60 minute cooldowns. most classes were not aoe damage classes.

put today's players in those game versions again (real not retro-engineered) and they would wipe just as much (if not more, for those that never learned to cc).

[Bleachbean]

It may have come down to nost owners deciding they couldn't expect their playerbase to donate enough to fund a legal battle with blizzard, and who knows what their final expectation of such a case with their particulars in France would have been.

Just the THREAT of legal action in that jurisdiction is real in the sense they would expect to incur 100's of thousands of euros in legal fees before getting anything conclusively resolved. Lawyers don't work free for this kind of client.

I was reading the same thing, and i'd shut down my server to if I got that kind of threat to. I feel bad for the people who set up Nost cuzz they were so damn passionate and now its gone in an instant!

[Deficineiron]

One minor reason, and one really very big reason.
1. The Dungeon Finder was created. Turns out most people don't actually play optimally with randomly-matched party members, or at least being in a random party that's easy to start and easy to leave and required no real time commitment or social effort to form does little to engender a desire to put in any real degree of effort. As a result, trying to do a difficult dungeon with people you don't know that requires strategic pulling, CCing, and responses to boss mechanics is a great recipe for frustration.
2. Wrath of the Lich King established a precedent for Heroic dungeons being a standard part of the baseline progression rather than a hard, more pinnacle challenge. This created the expectation that everyone would be running Heroic dungeons on a regular basis rather than the normal modes.

On its own, the first point probably wouldn't have been a big deal - after all, FF14's dungeons are all done through a dungeon finder system, and the associated problems largely don't exist in that game. However, it clashed HARD coming on the heels of the second point. In fact, I'd probably say that, more than anything else, Wrath's easy-mode Heroics destroyed the idea of Heroics being a hardmode that's really a part of the endgame itself than a quick means to gear up for raids. As a result, Heroics now are more or less what normal mode should be, with Mythics playing the part of what Heroic dungeons were meant to be like.

as a counter-point, imagine LFD having been introduced in 2.2. despite revered or honored key req, a lot of folks couldn't cut the needed performance in heroics who had the keys. i dont see how it wouldn't have forced blizzard to substantially nerf those dungeons then as well. it was bad enough pugging on a server out of /2.

[Bleachbean]

Yep. Making it up as you go along. I thought so.

looks like I just won the argument....small victory for NOS! We will take it, its all we have.

[Tuesdays]

I would rather say they were hard, period. Threat was still a very real part of the game, and when pulling that blood furnace grunt onto a dps, and he can one-shot with a white attack and a yellow attack with a crit on either, it is a totally different level of challenge. You had to know heroic boss mechanics or you would fail. various mobs had special abilities that had to be interrupted or they cc'ed or the group would likely wipe. The oh-shit buttons were on 30 and 60 minute cooldowns. most classes were not aoe damage classes.

put today's players in those game versions again (real not retro-engineered) and they would wipe just as much (if not more, for those that never learned to cc).

Makes me wonder if you guys actually did heroics at all during tbc, people talking about the easiest ones as if they were death traps. BM was a bitch, and shattered halls was a pain, and the one floaty instance with the constructs that did the zappyzappy crap, god those were shit to deal with.

[DarkTZeratul]

as a counter-point, imagine LFD having been introduced in 2.2. despite revered or honored key req, a lot of folks couldn't cut the needed performance in heroics who had the keys. i dont see how it wouldn't have forced blizzard to substantially nerf those dungeons then as well. it was bad enough pugging on a server out of /2.

I don't think it would have been as bad if the system debuted with the expectation that those dungeons were going to be difficult. The Heroic Icecrown dungeons from 3.3 are probably a good example of how things would have been if such difficulty had been the norm rather than just for a few high-level instances.