Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eleccybubb]

blizzard has no idea what the fuck they are doing so no i really dont expect them to make any good decisions

Guess they should hire you then

[Thoughtsinchaos]

This is horrible news. Playing on that server was a phenomenal experience, but I knew sooner or later blizz would lay down the law, so I stopped leveling my shammy there...

From what was posted earlier in the thread, I can only assume that blizz couldn't shut the server down, but then they got wind of the donations being made by players. IIRC, that vanilla server started out with its creators funding the whole project. Obviously, that didn't last forever, and once they started taking donations, they started digging their own graves.

No doubt in my mind that blizz will eventually create classic servers, but the problem is waiting for that to happen...

[Queen of Hamsters]

Enjoy your cosmetic content, i'm sure logging in to see your female gnome with spiked pink hair in skimpy clothes really is an invigorating gameplay experience for you!

Oh yes, how can someone be so foolish to enjoy cosmetic content in an MMORPG. I don't have a female gnome with spiked hair though, she's a rogue in T9 with black hair and goggles. Just one of all the Horde and Alliance chars I have. ^^

Do tell, what can one do in Classic that can't be done now? Or rather, do tell how it matters MORE than what can be done now, since this is a common claim I see.

[ElDoorO]

No, they were accepting donations, no sub, no buying. I remember as i played on WoWscape at the time, you could donate and receive in-game item rewards.

I'll look into it then. I did a 5 second Google and only saw the one PDF document, which is unusual. I should be able to pull up the filling so I can get a better understanding of the actual suit. If you ping me tomorrow, I should have an answer for you (and a link to the court case itself, which will settle that matter).. otherwise, there's a small chance I'll forget which person I was talking to and forget.

[mvaliz]

They're threatened. These people don't like to hear that some people may prefer a past version of WoW other than today's. They see how today's wow bleeds subs like mad and then see how popular these private realms get. And they're threatened.

Again, this is idiotic logic as they (Blizzard) simply would/could put up those servers of their own if there really was such a demand - couldn't they? They're clearly not doing them for a reason, and I'm doubting it's because of being "threatened" by anybody.

Also, lets face another truth - the only reason those servers get any attention is because they're free - and you damn well know it. If normal WoW became just as free, the vast majority of those people would leave those servers and play WoW instead.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Well intelligent discussion was always worth a try I suppose.

Should we start making a montage of how many times you shout "thief" in an attempt to somehow justify yourself. I wonder if it'l be similar to the Donald Drumpf video where he says "China" a lot.

You're the one that's trying to rationalize a crime here, not me.

[Pwellzor]

ROFL! You are lying out your ass. The optimal lock rotation was never even close to simple shadowbolt spam until BC after sac pet was introduced. I will give you a little tidbit there (I am assuming wrath baby), SM/Ruin was the optimal spec and it was never...ever...shadowbolt spam.

So tell me what it was. If you modify what I said by adding instant corruption as complexity I'll die.

[Nosdrone]

http://www.geek.com/games/blizzard-w...rvers-1277800/

[Jdance]

Oh yes, how can someone be so foolish to enjoy cosmetic content in an MMORPG.

Do tell, what can one do in Classic that can't be done now?

leave a main city and actually be in a danger of dying and not feel like every single piece of content placed in the world is a storytelling element for their shit stories without any actual danger placed in the world anywhere

[Kaleredar]

They're threatened. These people don't like to hear that some people may prefer a past version of WoW other than today's. They see how today's wow bleeds subs like mad and then see how popular these private realms get. And they're threatened.

How many people would pay 15 dollars a month to play on vanilla servers for more than the first two months?

Not very many.


You complain about content gaps being bad now and balance being out of whack. And yet... oh, an effective content gap that never ends with balance and bug issues that will never be addressed? Why, that's just heaven!


You think LFR queue times are bad? What happens when you can't scrape up 40 people out of trade chat to do Molten Core?


I mean at least have some consistency in your whining.

[Darththeo]

Druids never had wands.

Do you even know what druids had?

He didn't say they did.

I played a druid. I didn't wand when oom or playing the 5 sec rule game. I just stood still twiddling my thumbs. So much fun. Teh complexity!

He stated he didn't wand when oom ... he didn't state he had a wand.

[zorkuus]

Druids never had wands.

You are the second person who thought I said they had when I clearly didn't. Where's the confusion?

[TheWorkingTitle]

Just goes to show how threatened Blizzard is of Classic Servers and their popularity. I hope this sets off a chain of events that leads to them caving (as usual) about their stance on Legacy servers. Classic servers are imminent, anyways.

[ElDoorO]

No, they were accepting donations, no sub, no buying. I remember as i played on WoWscape at the time, you could donate and receive in-game item rewards.

Ah, here we go:

"Winning the case was made easy by the fact that Alyson Reeves, owner of Scapegaming, didn’t even bother turning up for the hearing. So by default Blizzard won."

http://www.geek.com/games/blizzard-w...rvers-1277800/

You can't just NOT show up to court.

[Redroniksre]

Very possible. It's difficult to keep up with multiple conversations on this style of forum. I think I'm talking to three or four different people. I dropped one off because they were just being childish but the rest, such as yourself, have been more passionate and not childish.

I'm passionate about it because i used to play them constantly and ran one for a few of my friends. Everyone in the private server emu community knew the risks when you ran one, the more popular it became the more attention it got and once you start making money off of it there was a good chance you would be shut down. The Donate for Items was a big thing at first but died down when WoWscape took the plunge. Blizzard has full rights to take down the server and the owners were smart to do so (From most likely a Cease and Desist letter). Not that this matter there are hundreds of servers out there, just need to find a new one to play.

Ah, here we go:

"Winning the case was made easy by the fact that Alyson Reeves, owner of Scapegaming, didn’t even bother turning up for the hearing. So by default Blizzard won."

http://www.geek.com/games/blizzard-w...rvers-1277800/

You can't just NOT show up to court.

Biggest mistake they ever made.

[Ajdhfh]

Doesn't matter who the owner is. They aren't re-selling the game. They aren't saying "pay $20 for a vanilla copy of WoW and pay $5 / month to play!". They are saying pay X to play. That's the catch here. If they were doing the former you would totally be in the right here -- but they aren't, as far as I know.

The "legal justification" is still in a gray area because it wasn't fought or brought up in court. So far every time Blizzard has ran into court they've lost. I have no reason to believe this time would be any different.

Alright, so again, apologies I'm not a lawyer or copyright expert. My knowledge is limited. But I'd like to try and counter a few of your points.
And to be fair, no fair use or copyright law is ever 100% aligned based on what you can glean from the situation. As in, its determined within the courts what it constitutes.

That said, let's look at the four factors of fair use.
The whole, purpose and transformation of the work, is typically the most emphasized within the court. It deals with what has been explicitly copied upon, or what has otherwise been transformed and if any value was added to the original through new work added unto it. In this case, code is about the only thing that would appear different. The art assets, sound, quests, dialogue, etc, are also explicitly copied, and thus form a weak purpose factor, and is not being used for education etc as to exempt it.

Then you move onto the nature of it. I have no clue about this tbh, as its largely decided within the courts on a case by case as far as I'm aware.

Then you move onto how much of the work has been copied. In this case; a lot. Basically everything but code, such as art assets, sound assets, and more. As can be probably guessed, the more that is copied, the less chance that fair use can be incited.

Finally, you get to the point a few others on here are making in that "its taking customers away from their properties".
Which is whatever effect that Nostralius has on the market, or potential market if it did not exist would occur. If it reduces the copyright owner, Blizzard, of any reasonable expectation of profit or a reduction in a potential new market that the copyrighted work can exist in, it would have a weak case in fair use. The argument "well, blizzard won't make private servers anyway, so why can't these guys and nost do it", is void, because it is based on whatever potential exists for the market, and to the owner of the copyright.

Again, I'm no expert on this, and most of this stuff is decided within the courts themselves.

[Queen of Hamsters]

leave a main city and actually be in a danger of dying and not feel like every single piece of content placed in the world is a storytelling element for their shit stories without any actual danger placed in the world anywhere

Soooo...power creep was not a thing in Classic? Nor player skill going up with experience?

And that's not exactly concrete CONTENT...what do you DO? If I want to I can go right now to my Iron Man character and be in danger of dying if I play like a retard...

[ElDoorO]

I'm passionate about it because i used to play them constantly and ran one for a few of my friends. Everyone in the private server emu community knew the risks when you ran one, the more popular it became the more attention it got and once you start making money off of it there was a good chance you would be shut down. The Donate for Items was a big thing at first but died down when WoWscape took the plunge. Blizzard has full rights to take down the server and the owners were smart to do so (From most likely a Cease and Desist letter). Not that this matter there are hundreds of servers out there, just need to find a new one to play.

I was a GM on Novus Opiate when it *first* started and helped in its creation. We all knew the risks but we also knew we were going into legally gray territory.

This conversation reminds me of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_C...y_Studios,_Inc.

Of unique interest: "Children's television personality Mr. Rogers' testimony supporting the manufacturers of VCRs before the District Court was taken into consideration for the decision. The Court stated that his views were a notable piece of evidence "that many [television] producers are willing to allow private time-shifting to continue" and even quoted his testimony in a footnote."

[Zenotetsuken]

fixed that for you.

lol WoW is free w/token, so where's your argument again? Oh yeah, strawman. You can even ask the people in this very thread why those who play/have played on private servers do so, if you want a real answer. But hey, ignorance is bliss and all that.

[mvaliz]

No, they were accepting donations, no sub, no buying. I remember as i played on WoWscape at the time, you could donate and receive in-game item rewards.

Well... I stand further corrected! :P

It wasn't free at all apparently! They were actually using the Blizzard WOW vanilla game as their own private Pay-To-Win profitground! =D