Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Thundering]

I think they decided to shut down nos mainly couse thye dont want people 2 see how good the game was before cata.
Even more so legion seems to be falling fast right now whit more garrison and stuff.

[Estherna]

Just something that everyone who plays on a private server should be aware of: at any time, it can be shut down if the company who own the property decide too. For example, I'm playing on a private Warhammer Age of Reckoning server. If, tomorrow, Games Workshop decides to, it will close. It's how it go.

[Kyanion]

haha, Nostalrius was as good if not better than retail was back then. They worked on the scripting for years.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Someone is really drinking the Kool-Aid. Considering the amount of bugs/issues that people were running into it was not 'better' than retail back in the day. Class distribution suggests it was not 'better' than back in the day. Amount of people stuck at 1-20 suggests it was not 'better than back in the the day'. Jesus.

[samus]

Just something that everyone who plays on a private server should be aware of: at any time, it can be shut down if the company who own the property decide too. For example, I'm playing on a private Warhammer Age of Reckoning server. If, tomorrow, Games Workshop decides to, it will close. It's how it go.

Yeah no one denies that. Everyone who played on that server was aware of what could happen but the server did seem like a community effort and didn't seem like a threat to WoW at all. I think that's the reason people are surprised and are wondering why this server.

[Fenixdown]

If Blizz offered Legacy servers as part of the normal sub, I'd probably not just resub for Vanilla, I might even give the current game another go. Making it part of the normal subscription would deal with the issue of splitting the playerbase, and might even attract more people to the regular game.

Now, this I agree with. However, then you run into this problem.

Player 1 : "Man, I love this classic legacy server!"
Player 2 : "I didn't like classic. I'm unsubbing from the current game and I'll come back if they make a BC server."
Player 3 : "I didn't like classic. I'm unsubbing from the game and I'll come back if they make a Wrath server."
Player 4 : "I didn't like classic. I'm unsubbing from the game and I'll come back if they make a Cataclysm server."
Player 5 : "I didn't like classic. I'm unsubbing from the game and I'll come back if they make a Pandaria server."

So, what did we learn from this? We learned quite a few things. One, not everybody likes classic original World of Warcraft. Two, making a server exclusively for only classic original WoW has only retained one subscription out of five players. Three, to regain those other four players will either a. require a new expansion (which will get them to come back in a best case scenario) or building four additional servers. Each requiring manpower, coding, maintenance, ect.

Now, you tell me this, in absolute honesty. If you're a multi-billion dollar gaming company...are you looking at all of that data and thinking this is a good idea? Is it cost effective? Is it profitable?

The answer to all of this, if you're using analytics and your brain, is absolutely, positively, NO. As much as I agree it'd be a great idea for that one in five players (I'd even think of resubbing since I'd have a little side game I could jump into, which is all a vanilla server would be to me), from a business standpoint, it's a waste of resources. Which is what Blizzard has said to players time and time and time again when this dead horse gets dragged out by somebody, and which is why it has not, and will never, happen.

So let's just stop, already. It's literally pointless to even dream about it.

[Kyanion]

Who other than Blizzard really cares if Nostalrius was illegal? There were obviously a lot of people who have legit enjoyed playing the game, that they can't play anywhere else. Blizzard is to stubborn to create their own legacy servers, so the community took the initiative, then the game went really well to the point that it was going to compete with retail. Not saying Blizzard doesn't have any right to make them shutdown, but in this case I don't see why its worth ruining the fun for a lot of people. With a game that isn't even damaging them in any way, it doesn't seem worth to pull such an act unless Blizzard is really desperate for a chance to get a bit more subs.

People like to call the Nostalrius playerbase bad in this thread (or I'm just reading the same responses by the same 2 guys...), but considering how the other side of this discussion is handled by the WoW retail playerbase... your really not any better. If anything, atleast the Nost playerbase wants to have fun playing while the retail WoW playerbase are being the killjoys.

Who other than Blizzard really cares- People that don't like illegal servers which are breaking laws?
Blizzard is to stubborn to create their own legacy servers- Or they do not feel it is a financially viable idea.
Then the game went really well to the point that it was going to compete with retail- 150k people with a sub 20% retention rate in a FREE game is LOL not competing

Good lord is this the new tactic of the Nos drones? Nost is better than Vanilla was, it was going to compete with WoW and overtake it! What magic Kool-Aid are they serving over there? Damn.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much sums it up. I like to play on vanilla servers and I've made a lot of friends on there. It's helped me identify what's missing in current wow and what improves were great. Unfortunately, Blizz closed down the server and people from Nost raged on the official forums. Those who defended Blizzard were attacked and the people who were neutral decided "Fuck these guys! I like my game!"

Well you are missing some of it samus. For the year or so Nost was open they'd go to other places to make fun of retail WoW and try to advertise their server. They are the ones that caused it to get the attention of Blizz and get shut down. If they'd have shut their fucking mouths and kept quiet it might have lasted longer.

[Tart]

BUT BUT BUT blizzard can totally make money......

Sometimes I think blizzard has to many customers. With too many customers you get quite a bit of assholes, idiots, and dumbasses who think they have business sense and that blizzard is lying to them.

Agree in a sense with what you say about how popular blizzard are, and part of warcrafts downfall is trying to cater for them all.

[Unlimited Anza]

So the idea is, that Blizzard, instead of developing that new content we all crave, should work on something irrelavant? Because you don't have anything to play? I have 3 other Blizzard game, 300 games in Steam. A ball and a yard. Most players can play something else, instead of asking Blizzard to delay Legion even further so they can play Vanilla after finishing the final tier.

I answered that in my video, the crew of Nostalrius (a small crew of 30) have volunteered to do it for Blizzard for free via this petition (which is now about 80k signatures asking for for legacy servers fyi) so the work from blizzard would be minimal not to mention even if they didn't want to work on it themselves another option would be to license out the original game and software and sell it to people who want to play these original versions, that way people who truly desire to play the old game could do so and Blizzard could still go after private servers who stole the software anyway. It would have to be expensive sure but it would be a legal way to play the old content which blizzard currently does not provide. To stop anything crazy from happening they could made a note in the agreement when buying the license that whoever buys it can fix bugs and what not but they cannot add new content to the game outside of an expansion license that way you wouldn't have servers directly competing against Legion with making their own content for the game.

Also lets talk Legion, I don't care for Legion and I think a lot of people are like me, WoD was to much bullshit to actually want to jump right into Legion and from what we've seen so far on the Alpha Legion just doesn't look like something that I really want to play, I'll likely try it when it comes out but right now its not at all appealing to me and if it wasn't for my raiding guild I wouldn't be playing WoW at all currently. Heres the thing though, I never said and in fact no one has ever said that blizzard should stop working on Legion to work on this, either hire new people to do it, get the Nostalrius guys to do it or otherwise. Clearly you don't need a large team to pull it off if they did it with 30 over the course of a year.

My point is that there are many ways to accomplish what fans have wanted for a long time, I'm not saying they need to delay legion (anymore then it already has, 10 months since 6.2 came out and we still don't have a fucking release date are you kidding me?) but the demand is clearly there and they can continue fighting an endless losing battle against private servers and people asking for legacy servers and pissing off the fans every time they so no its never going to happen, or they can embrace the demand and sell it themselves and profit off of it. If you remember they once said the same thing about having an official way to buy gold for real money and now we have the WoW token... Point being that if it makes enough business sense to blizzard it can happen.

[AeneasBK]

Nost is better than Vanilla was, it was going to compete with WoW and overtake it! What magic Kool-Aid are they serving over there? Damn.

It's not a case of overtaking it.

It's a case of it being more appealing to enough people that there was a real risk of people unsubbing from WoD to go and play it. That is still a "threat" and it is still damaging to "current" WoW.

And really, interest in Nost was only just starting to get exponential (admittedly the shutdown increased their publicity x10e50) so you can't say that given another 6mo it wouldn't have been 300k. In a year it could have been 1million.

By all means laugh that away, but you know inside you have 0 evidence it couldn't have happened...

[Kyanion]

Or Blizzard could have left Nostralius alone which would have satisfied those who wanted to play Vanilla. The reason Blizz shut down this unauthorized realm was they didn't want this to be evidence that the direction of modern WoD WoW has went the totally wrong way.

I'd offer you some Kool-Aid but I believe you have had enough sir.

Look. Blizz shut them down because Nos started requesting donations publicly, they started getting attention from streamers and advertisements. They made themselves a target and it was simple for Blizz to fire off a cease and desist letter. I don't think Blizz is worried about 'evidence' that the players want X or Y because I think they can figure that on their own. How many times does Blizzard need to say "No" it is not viable before people get it.

[AeneasBK]

I'd offer you some Kool-Aid but I believe you have had enough sir.

Look. Blizz shut them down because Nos started requesting donations publicly, they started getting attention from streamers and advertisements. They made themselves a target and it was simple for Blizz to fire off a cease and desist letter. I don't think Blizz is worried about 'evidence' that the players want X or Y because I think they can figure that on their own .

If that is true then why not all the other servers that do much much more than brazenly ask for donations

Because *that* part of the reason is false.

How many times does Blizzard need to say "No" it is not viable before people get it.

Well, when there's all these people offering a close enough vanilla experience and making "fat stacks" from it; Blizzards argument it "isn't viable" sounds pretty hollow

[samus]

Agree in a sense with what you say about how popular blizzard are, and part of warcrafts downfall is trying to cater for them all.

I think in reality, Blizzard catered to the wrong crowd. They oversimplified the game to bring in the (For a lack of a better word) casual gamer. The problem is, the casual gamer doesn't stick around. There's not enough content at end game, their favourite class isn't as powerful anymore, their friends leave, etc. They up and leave. Blizzard should've catering to the people who were okay with putting that effort in, because those are the ones that stick around.

[Charge me Doctor]

I think in reality, Blizzard catered to the wrong crowd. They oversimplified the game to bring in the (For a lack of a better word) casual gamer. The problem is, the casual gamer doesn't stick around. There's not enough content at end game, their favourite class isn't as powerful anymore, their friends leave, etc. They up and leave. Blizzard should've catering to the people who were okay with putting that effort in, because those are the ones that stick around.

Ironically, blizzard made WoW to bring in casual players from EQ, your argument doesn't have any ground to stand on

[AeneasBK]

Ironically, blizzard made WoW to bring in casual players from EQ

So in the bell curve of Hardcore > too accessable, they were finding the right spot?

[Raiju]

Well, when there's all these people offering a close enough vanilla experience and making "fat stacks" from it; Blizzards argument it "isn't viable" sounds pretty hollow

It is, because (I'm not saying anyone at nost did) a handful making bank off the server at the expense of 100's of volunteers isn't viable for blizzard. They'd have to pay everyone involved.

[ls-]

I answered that in my video, the crew of Nostalrius (a small crew of 30) have volunteered to do it for Blizzard for free via this petition (which is now about 80k signatures asking for for legacy servers fyi) so the work from blizzard would be minimal not to mention even if they didn't want to work on it themselves another option would be to license out the original game and software and sell it to people who want to play these original versions, that way people who truly desire to play the old game could do so and Blizzard could still go after private servers who stole the software anyway.

So, you want blizz to run Nost/MaNGOS WoW emulator as an "official" Vanilla realm?

[Deleted]

I think they decided to shut down nos mainly couse thye dont want people 2 see how good the game was before cata.
Even more so legion seems to be falling fast right now whit more garrison and stuff.

Look, another time traveler!

[Charge me Doctor]

So in the bell curve of Hardcore > too accessable, they were finding the right spot?

There was simply no "bell curve", there was EQ, and easier version of that.

[ls-]

So in the bell curve of Hardcore > too accessable, they were finding the right spot?

Nah, casual > hardcore. That's what made WoW so popular in the first place.

[samus]

Ironically, blizzard made WoW to bring in casual players from EQ, your argument doesn't have any ground to stand on

Yeah and they got the crowd from EQ. Then they tried to get more people in by making the game even more accessible. The EQ people were like "Well shit... this game is too easy now." and peaced out.

I'm just saying, the subs started dropping when they started doing things that meant less social interaction was needed and loot was coming easy. I remember the days of Random HC spam for tokens to trade for epic gear.