Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

Are you just going to drop that topic of discussion without adressing what i said?

Let me reiterate ~ 600 page thread, blizzards facebook page covered in messages, front page of reddit, one of largest twitch streamers tweeting about it, a 2mil subbed yotubed releasing a video on it, 60,000 signature petition, 150,000 active accounts.

Lets add some more, articles on ars technica, gamespot, kotaku, polygon, ibtimes and more, consistent threads even on the heavily moderated official forums, yesterday atleast every large twitch streamer was discussing the topic one way or another, top streamer for a short while's title was "#youthinkyoudobutyoudont", the ama on reddit with over 2000 comments.

If you take any one of those things in isolation (ie in a world where ony one of those statements was true) yes i think you could formulate an argument that this topic isnt relavant, or that the desire for vanilla servers isnt relevant.

But i dont see how anyone can not see the logical fallacy in only choosing to acknowledge some of those statements and ignoring the rest.

K and this issue will be a non-issue in a week when the internet gets something else to get offended about.

[Deleted]

This whole situation reminds me of a time back in 2011; Cataclysm was a piece of shit, evidently, so I joined a private server
Either way, though, it was more fun than retail Cataclysm for anybody with a brain.

So dungeons and t11 was to hard for you ? Cata was amazing expension prior to DS.

[ls-]

Count me in :-) I guess that is why an oldschool-like grinder game such as Black Desert is so loved now. You really have to work for your levels, your money, you professions, your upgrades. Besides having a far superios gfx engine and models.
I don't know where Legion will lead to. It might be the WOW Ressurection or the bullets that finally ends it.

Dunno about loved, there's some hype in the West, yeah, cuz it's sorta new. You know, there was some hype in Korea too, however, game is doing bad in Korea now...

As one youtuber said, BDO is gonna be a niche game, and that's fine.

[Deleted]

So why did you keep playing retail for years? Didn't enjoy a single moment of it?

Zolascius it appears you're still here after avoiding that for the first time. Care to answer it? Is it too embarrassing?

Could be because his friends still played it, I knew a few who still wouldn't leave until certain other people left the game.

[Drpizka]

To be fair you have misunderstood him. He is saying the private server running for free as a hobby project doesn not need to meet any data security requirements regarding things such as credit card information.

If blizzard were to do what nostalrius was doing blizzard would have to meet those standards.

I know, and I believe this is why Nost didn't have any donations etc.

And by donations, I mean pay-to-get-gear, not server maintainance.

- - - Updated - - -

Count me in :-) I guess that is why an oldschool-like grinder game such as Black Desert is so loved now. You really have to work for your levels, your money, you professions, your upgrades. Besides having a far superios gfx engine and models.
I don't know where Legion will lead to. It might be the WOW Ressurection or the bullets that finally ends it.

I think that many of us desire that, indeed let's hope for WoW's ressurection.

[Mukor]

It would indeed be normal behaviour for people to abandon something they are passionate about and simply move on.

Especially when it has been proven to them that what they are passionate about can be delivered to them.

Yeah, i have passion for the old lore they wrote, i have a passion for all the Star Wars Expanded Universe. And they all got washed out, can i bitch about it on a forum with like minded individuals daily? Sure I can, but why waste my breath on something they have already done.

I'm actually furious we have another Star Wars Disney Princess with Rogue One coming out. But, it's already written the deed is done.

Blizzard said No Legacy we're moving forward. And that's what they'll do.

If they introduced legacy servers they would need a team to go back and recode alot of shit, like the nostralius team did, and blizzard thinks it's not in their best interest to hire new coders to do that job, or have their team halt their future expansion(s) to go back and fix a 11 year old bug in deadmines.

I did play on Nostralius, it was fun. But, can't go against the company that owns the game.

[Deleted]

As a multi-billion dollars company which purposedly refuses to provide a service, you can turn a blind eye when someone does at no cost to you, though.

How do you know it does not "cost" them anything? I mean, I downloaded tons of MP3s 1995 when I got Internet the first time, and I stopped buying CDs from that point on. Maybe if WoW was offline and shut down, I could see a reason and sth to discuss.... But then there is still that copyright stuff...

Besides that, there is more than that "cost x or zero" stuff, because Blizz developed that Game, and why should they turn a blind eye on stealing that content?
And how harms refusing to provide legacy server any law?

I think it is futile to argue in favor of Nostalrius when it comes to law/copyright and TOS. It is a matter of fact.
I get your point, you can hate Blizz for this, you can be angry and sad, but you cant say what Nostalrius team did was legal.

The aftermath is this: The wow consumer metric gives so many "hints" by canceling subs and playing on these private servers that there is a certain group (maybe indeed with certain 7 figures from 1 to 4 Million?) that demands a legacy WoW experience and/or oldschool mechanics and WoW again.
BUT - not following all the Legion news- isn't that "oldschool" stuff covered in some ways by Legion? I thought they will design Legion with Vanilla elements?

- - - Updated - - -

Dunno about loved, there's some hype in the West, yeah, cuz it's sorta new. You know, there was some hype in Korea too, however, game is doing bad in Korea now...

As one youtuber said, BDO is gonna be a niche game, and that's fine.

You are right, hype hits the nail, love is maybe to much emotion although the first hours in BDO are covered with Aaaahhhs and wow!s and yyyiiiiieeees :P

[Deleted]

So dungeons and t11 was to hard for you ? Cata was amazing expension prior to DS.

Actually it's funny you mention Tier 11, that was the time I actually had been raiding the most; it happened to get boring as shit after getting through ToTFW, Bastion & BWD, the former of which I'm proud to say we got a server-first kill on, which I personally off-tanked. o/

To your other point, you must've missed my post, I did reply.

[Vash The Stampede]

I did play on Nostralius, it was fun. But, can't go against the company that owns the game.

I own the game, Blizzard owns the servers. The crappy, low population, dead servers. Why can't I go with someone else's servers?

[Akka]

How do you know it does not "cost" them anything?

They don't provide it. As such they don't benefit from it. As such, someone else providing it doesn't cost them anything - or at least not anything noticeable.
If you don't sell a disc, you can't really claim that people obtaining it for free does affect your bottom line.
"they are not buying something I'm not selling" makes for a pretty absurd argument.

Besides that, there is more than that "cost x or zero" stuff, because Blizz developed that Game, and why should they turn a blind eye on stealing that content?

Beyond the FACT that stealing and copyright infringement are both separate concepts and separate under the law, if it doesn't cost anything to Blizz and they actively refuse to provide it themselve, what harm is there ?

I think it is futile to argue in favor of Nostalrius when it comes to law/copyright and TOS. It is a matter of fact.
I get your point, you can hate Blizz for this, you can be angry and sad, but you cant say what Nostalrius team did was legal.

I said "turning a blind eye". How can you somehow manage into turning this into "claiming that Nost was legal" ?

The aftermath is this: The wow consumer metric gives so many "hints" by canceling subs and playing on these private servers that there is a certain group (maybe indeed with certain 7 figures from 1 to 4 Million?) that demands a legacy WoW experience and/or oldschool mechanics and WoW again.
BUT - not following all the Legion news- isn't that "oldschool" stuff covered in some ways by Legion? I thought they will design Legion with Vanilla elements?

God no it's not. Not at all. Absolutely, totally not. Legion is just more of the exact same design going 180° away from Vanilla. Just like WoD was absolutely nothing like TBC, Legion is not looking at all like Vanilla.

[xalenthas]

I own the game, Blizzard owns the servers. The crappy, low population, dead servers. Why can't I go with someone else's servers?

For the love of ....

You DO NOT OWN THE GAME, you purchased access to the servers, nothing more.

[Shoopuf]

So dungeons and t11 was to hard for you ? Cata was amazing expension prior to DS.

T11 had some really fun fights. But overall it was a poorly tuned buggy mess of a tier.

[zorkuus]

Actually it's funny you mention Tier 11, that was the time I actually had been raiding the most; it happened to get boring as shit after getting through ToTFW, Bastion & BWD, the former of which I'm proud to say we got a server-first kill on, which I personally off-tanked. o/

But you didn't have any fun right?

[Deleted]

Who on earth asked you for your credit card on a private server, and why did you gave it to them? Nostalrius was FREE. period. No subs, no donations, no adds. That's all.

I meant - if Blizzard was to do it.

[Deleted]

But you didn't have any fun right?

Same way I had 2 weeks of fun with WoD; slightly longer in Cataclysm. Doesn't justify 2 years of nothing

[Akka]

For the love of ....

You DO NOT OWN THE GAME, you purchased access to the servers, nothing more.

Actually I do own my copy of the game, the access to the servers is paid by subscription.

(notice that owning a copy of the game doesn't make me proprietary of the IP inside the copy, so I can't distribute it or use the code/assets for my own profit, BUT it makes me the owner of the copy itself, so I can do whatever I want with it beside the two previous points)

[Deleted]

Same way I had 2 weeks of fun with WoD; slightly longer in Cataclysm. Doesn't justify 2 years of nothing

Adn how would that be different with Vanilla? How long would vanilla be fun? With even less content and updates than live version?

[zorkuus]

Same way I had 2 weeks of fun with WoD; slightly longer in Cataclysm. Doesn't justify 2 years of nothing

Did you have fun in tbc and wotlk? Blizz still didn't return any respect to you during those times either right?

[Deleted]

It could be in all of th einternet for all I care. That wouldn't change the fact that out of those 800k created accounts (for free) only 150k stayed. And most of those never got over level 20 anyway. So no. It is not relevant. Sure some might enjoy it more than live WoW. They lost their fun. There will be thousands of other Vanilla servers. But 150k active players most not even level 60 is not relevant, or won't be in about a month.

150k of 800k is a lot to me. 150k active players too. Path of Exile has similar numbers, except 200k of 3mil. At the moment it's 6th most popular f2p game on Steam. Cookie Clicker with 300k of 2,7mil. Yeah it's not Blizzard popular, but a very real profiting business is there. For interest Smite is 5th wih 360k of 2mil.
http://steamspy.com/app/238960 for PoE's numbers.

PoE is 6th and Cookie 7th right now because today PoE has had more players, I think. The 'retention rate' is also around double of these really popular f2p games.

[Deleted]

Adn how would that be different with Vanilla? How long would vanilla be fun? With even less content and updates than live version?

As long as the community existed, and was incentivized to continue existing through the design philosophy of the game being pro-MMORPG, instead of pro-solo.

Immersion,
socially incentivized content via shared struggle,
fresh content,
abstraction of game systems;
less focus on trivial, fluff details like menu-based content systems.
World PvP,
less overarching Quality-of-Life,
world content,
meaningful progression,
less itemization bloat,
longer retention rate due to content difficulty and length.
Socially incentivized server-based events (1.9 AQ War Effort),
tiered PvE progression;
Open-rank PvP Ladder,
Long, fun battlegrounds,
thematic integrity,
atmospheric immmersion (weather, night-time),
tiered complexity (ie. a balanced learning curve for noobs).
Lore integrity
Notable quest-based content (Sceptre of the Shifting Sands, Benediction, Rhok'delar, etc.)
Aspirational tiers of content (Naxx 40)
Realm community integrity (No CRZ)
More reason to travel
Immersive game mechanics: Pet Happiness, Ammo, Reagents, Spell-ranks
Complex character agency (Talent trees)
Diverse classes, no homogenization of purpose
Inconvenience adding to the adventure.
Non-linear PvE, modular progression
Non-linear dungeon content
Non-linear storylines and questing
Distributed population of players within the gameworld

Did you have fun in tbc and wotlk? Blizz still didn't return any respect to you during those times either right?

Gradually turned to shit over time. Respect is worth more than trading a few sub fees for Ruby Sanctum, I'm sorry, but it is.