Feminist argues Spider Man trilogy is surprisingly pro-feminist

[Independent voter]

I might have to re-watch these films to see what she's talking about, but it mostly revolves around how MJ is treated.

It's a really long article, much to big to post in it's entirety

spider-man-trilogy-gender-roles/


This brings us to another interesting aspect of the Spider-Man movies: how in them, evil is very often inextricably tied up with misogyny. The thing that really sets Peter into kill mode during his final smackdown with the Green Goblin is when Norman makes a sexual threat against MJ. Then there’s an earlier moment at the Thanksgiving dinner, where Norman spends a few seconds leering at MJ’s chest before he gets around to his sexist humiliation of her, and MJ notices, and she’s clearly very uncomfortable indeed. It’s a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment, but it was there for a reason.

We’re meant to be on MJ’s side, and appalled by Norman’s behavior, throughout all of this. “Doesn’t feature victim blaming” is a phenomenally low bar to set for a movie, I know, but it still comes as a bit of a breather. A woman in a movie trilogy wearing low-cut tops, portraying herself as sexy, dating at least one new man per movie, and she’s not slut-shamed? Well, it’s more than most actual female celebrities ever get. It’s nice to have a movie float the Totally Radical idea that women are not, in fact, responsible for creepy men wanting to have sex with them, or responsible for the violence that those men sometimes do when that sex is denied.

Which brings us to Gwen Stacy!

I can’t praise enough what Spider-Man 3 did with Gwen. For all its flaws, it achieved something none of the other Spider-Man movies did, which was to not only drag Gwen Stacy out of the fridge but then smash the fridge with a massive hammer labelled “MEN, STOP TREATING WOMEN BADLY.” It’s true that we don’t really get to know this variation of Gwen very well as a person, but she has a very important function in the story and that function is, essentially, to destroy any idea that the way Eddie Brock/Venom and Peter behave towards women in this movie is okay.

Oh, Venom. One of the most common complaints about Spider-Man 3 was that Venom was portrayed as a whiny little git rather than a black-suited blood-spilling badass, but I’m not complaining at all. Granted, I wasn’t that much of a Venom fan anyway, but as a villain, Spider-Man 3’s Venom is absolutely top-notch: he’s an entitled, misogynistic dude with superpowers. What could be scarier? Nothing, that’s what.

Eddie Brock spends a good portion of Spider-Man 3 basically stalking Gwen without her knowledge, but the interesting thing is the way her agency is portrayed in this. She and Eddie went on one chaste date and she isn’t really interested in him, yet…

EDDIE: Excuse me, miss. [takes out camera] May I please see that gorgeous smile?
GWEN: [giggles] Hi, Eddie. [poses for him]
EDDIE: You’re so beautiful. This is front-page stuff.
GWEN: I’ve got to practice. I’ll see you later, okay?
EDDIE: How about tonight?
GWEN: Not tonight.
EDDIE: What about that amazing- amazing night we spent together?
GWEN: We had coffee, Eddie.

She’s still nice to him! She still strikes a sexy pose at him when he turns his camera on her, even! She does everything women are told not to do (for fear of “leading on”) when turning down a guy who’s practically obsessed with them. And yet she’s not blamed for Eddie’s later actions! (Yeah, we’re back at it again with the “very low bar” thing, but still.) It’s not even just that: this version of Gwen is sexual, after decades of her being held up as the Good Girl of the Spider-verse. She’s a model, she kisses Spider-Man in front of a crowd, she puts on a very sexy dance performance with Peter at the jazz club. Eddie seeing her with another man is the catalyst, more or less, for his transformation into Venom. “You made me lose my girl, now I’m gonna make you lose yours!” he snarls at Peter. (Interestingly, it’s right at this point, right where Venom is speaking about women as if they’re property, that MJ drops a cinder block on his head.)

In a world where women who turn down men are literally blamed for any subsequent violence—and god, woe betide them if they ever put sexy pictures on Facebook or flirted with anyone in any way ever—the Gwen/Venom subplot is quite refreshing, really, especially
since this Gwen not only lives, but is completely fine at the end of the movie. Harry gets killed by Venom for Peter’s character development, not her! And Venom is punished for his actions when his own selfishness leads to his death.

[Arenis]

In a world where women who turn down men are literally blamed for any subsequent violence

Does the author live in a remote, rural part of a third world country where radical Islam extremists reign?

[Shinra1]

Does the author live in a remote, rural part of a third world country where radical Islam extremists reign?

Stop stereotyping Islam as oppressive. The veil is a power symbol and women who wear it are exercising their freedom of choice. If you go to Saudi Arabia you'll be shocked by how the vast majority of women in the country are college graduates, in fact there are more female graduates than male, which goes to show how educated and self-deterimed these respectful women truly are. So save your pity for someone who needs it because Muslim women have a lot of dignity and pride.

[Arenis]

Stop stereotyping Islam as oppressive. The veil is a power symbol and women who wear it are exercising their freedom of choice. If you go to Saudi Arabia you'll be shocked by how the vast majority of women in the country are college graduates, in fact there are more female graduates than male, which goes to show how educated and self-deterimed these respectful women truly are. So save your pity for someone who needs it because Muslim women have a lot of dignity and pride.

Calm down, I'm partially Syrian, I know how things run over there. Which is especially why I described "radical Islam extremists" instead of "just Islam" or anything like it.

Please do actually read what you are commenting on, before you comment on it. Thank you.

[Shinra1]

Calm down, I'm partially Syrian, I know how things run over there. Which is especially why I described "radical Islam extremists" instead of "just Islam" or anything like it.

Please do actually read what you are commenting on, before you comment on it. Thank you.

But you're not Muslim, so you being dubiously part syrian is irrelevant. Why are you reinforcing negative stereotypes about 'your' people? If anyone needs to think twice before commenting it is you because u need to examine the implications of what you're saying which I'm not responsible for despite your convenient explanation.

[Arenis]

But you're not Muslim, so you being dubiously part syrian is irrelevant. Why are you reinforcing negative stereotypes about 'your' people? If anyone needs to think twice before commenting it is you because u need to examine the implications of what you're saying which I'm not responsible for despite your convenient explanation.

Reinforcing negative stereotypes of extremists? What?...

There are no implications of what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the simple, but not always fun reality. Yes, a metric ton of Muslims are good and proud people, both male and female, making their own choices. But the fact remains that in some more remote/rural areas, extremists take it to.... the extreme (badum-tish), especially in the case of misogyny. It is almost as if you are turning a blind eye to it. Maybe examine the implications of that?

[Guy4123]

Reinforcing negative stereotypes of extremists? What?...

There are no implications of what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the simple, but not always fun reality. Yes, a metric ton of Muslims are good and proud people, both male and female, making their own choices. But the fact remains that in some more remote/rural areas, extremists take it to.... the extreme (badum-tish), especially in the case of misogyny. It is almost as if you are turning a blind eye to it. Maybe examine the implications of that?

Don't worry about him. He's got his pole out and your biting. Don't let him reel you in too.

[nextormento]

If anyone needs to think twice before commenting it is you because u need to examine the implications of what you're saying which I'm not responsible for despite your convenient explanation.

Are you advocating for people not thinking stuff over?
This is genius!, the willfully ignorant, and the abject imbecile are not even responsible of their stupidity anymore.

[Deleted]

Honestly, don't know what to say. Since she considers feminism to actually be equality between genders from what I get from the article, I do guess Spider Man would be a feminist movie. Since, in the end, this is the true feminism, equality between genders.
Also take in mind that, while not in the movie, there is also a spider-Gwen in the story too.

Stop stereotyping Islam as oppressive. The veil is a power symbol and women who wear it are exercising their freedom of choice. If you go to Saudi Arabia you'll be shocked by how the vast majority of women in the country are college graduates, in fact there are more female graduates than male, which goes to show how educated and self-deterimed these respectful women truly are. So save your pity for someone who needs it because Muslim women have a lot of dignity and pride.

1. He talked about extremists.

2. I don't think that women take the veil as a symbol of choice when they are around these extremists we're talking about since, you know, extremists have been know to kill people so if one day they wanted to take off their veil... it wouldn't go good.

3. Yes, Saudi Arabia has many woman college graduates, but as far as I know not everyone in Saudi Arabia is an extremist. Still, I'll humour you. Can women drive in Saudi Arabia? No. Can they open a bank account without their husband's permission? No. Can they travel without a male guardian legally? No. Can they even try out clothes in changing booths? No.
So, give me a break, Saudi Arabia is quite oppresive to women. They might have some college graduates... which are still forced to go out with men or risk punishment, can't drive, can't try out clothes, can't can't can't.

So, overall, triggered much?

[Deleted]

Well this seems like the kind of important academic analysis that should be taught to undergraduates at universities as part of a rigorous social science like Women's Studies or UFO-logy

[Simulacrum]

Stop stereotyping Islam as oppressive. The veil is a power symbol and women who wear it are exercising their freedom of choice. If you go to Saudi Arabia you'll be shocked by how the vast majority of women in the country are college graduates, in fact there are more female graduates than male, which goes to show how educated and self-deterimed these respectful women truly are. So save your pity for someone who needs it because Muslim women have a lot of dignity and pride.

The only one "sterotyping islam as oppressive" here so far is you, by refusing to distinguish between its extremists and its moderates.

But I'm sure the irony of that is lost on you.

[Calfredd]

The only one "sterotyping islam as oppressive" here so far is you, by refusing to distinguish between its extremists and its moderates.

But I'm sure the irony of that is lost on you.

And logged out never to be heard from again.

[Deleted]

Ok, thank you for ruining Spider-Man for me!

[SodiumChloride]

LOL. You can interpret just about anything as pro-feminist or anti-feminist. All you need is an active imagination.

I blame the Humanities. They teach people that their subjective interpretation is worth a shit.

[Shadowferal]

I find myself enlightened...

[unbound]

Does the author live in a remote, rural part of a third world country where radical Islam extremists reign?

While not as extremely violent, we have plenty of that in the US. Plenty of men (including a few on this site) happily rationalize that women who get threatened, hit, beat up, or raped deserve what they got for some stupid reason or another...

[hydrium]

But you're not Muslim, so you being dubiously part syrian is irrelevant. Why are you reinforcing negative stereotypes about 'your' people? If anyone needs to think twice before commenting it is you because u need to examine the implications of what you're saying which I'm not responsible for despite your convenient explanation.

White people telling everyone else what's racist.

Yep, it's 2016 alright.

[Random010203]

While not as extremely violent, we have plenty of that in the US. Plenty of men (including a few on this site) happily rationalize that women who get threatened, hit, beat up, or raped deserve what they got for some stupid reason or another...

lmfao, no they don't. If women want equality than they should be equal when it comes to doling out punishment among other things.

Not one rational person on these forums, not even the worst, is going to justify an innocent woman getting raped.

- - - Updated - - -

White people telling everyone else what's racist.

Yep, it's 2016 alright.

By white people do you mean any of the countries/peoples here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people or did you just mean 'whites' in general.

[Whitehatter]

i find it amusing how fast one topic goes off track :P

spiderman / feminism / racism .. 0.=

[Deleted]

i find it amusing how fast one topic goes off track :P

spiderman / feminism / racism .. 0.=

Speaking of which, there's also a black spider man.