Are 2004 "casuals" and 2016 "casuals" the same?

[Cæli]

I feel that going forward the society and technology on a whole is getting rid of overly complicated stuff, and focus on making things simple, with things being as or more effective. It's a VERY good thing and certainly the right way for technological advancement.
I also think that it also had some side effects especially on video games, where "what currently works" is simplified gameplay. Atmosphere and art as good as it can be, but the gameplay and reward system being simplified, less demanding, because people are now mostly categorizing video games as "should be a way to relax, enjoy and have decent rewards for the most optimized time and effort possible".

Which is not a good thing for the future of video games in my opinion. A powerful developer needs to stop that and make people learn how they can have better pleasure with video games, and that they should devote time to get a worthy rewards, which would result in a far better pleasure/time ratio.

To me it's a matter of balance. It was near perfectly balanced in the past, even for "casuals". Now, it's not balanced at all and obviously problems arise. I get that WoW adapts to the market, always be, back then WoW was very accessible, but there's limit not to cross and they've crossed it. It's an important matter. If we keep making things too simple, something bad will happen to humanity. Blizzard should know that and I think it's a key to success.

[Deleted]

Nope
We was noobs these days and transformed to professional players after years and years of experience(well some are semi-proffesionals actually)

[Deleted]

The hardcore game is still there, not as much as before casuals aren't taking anything from you.
If anything botters and cheaters are ruining the game, at least on the pvp side. They even ruined blizzcon 2 years ago.

Also, have you gotten rank 1?
Cleared mythic before nerfs?
sheesh... casual

It has been quite reduced in terms of scope and soze. Worse yet modes that used to be training grounds for new players are now nothing but loot pinata's... trying to compare a heroic of today with one from tbc is rather depressing. In a effort to appease casuals blizzard demolished their games difficulty curve outside of raiding.

As for your attempt at personal jab... Yes to raiding and no to pvp I only ever get to 2k for transmog then quite I rise to challenges. I do not ask they be lowered for me casual.

[Arenis]

IMO yes. A casual is simply someone who doesn't spend a very significant amount of time in a certain game. Be it classic, be it retail. Remains the same.

[ls-]

Nah, 2004 casual is today's semi-hardcore, WoW was really casual game back in 2004, that's what made it so popular, it wasn't as demanding and as punishing as other MMOs around that time.

EQ players treated WoW players as filthy casual peasants.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

It has been quite reduced in terms of scope and soze. Worse yet modes that used to be training grounds for new players are now nothing but loot pinata's... trying to compare a heroic of today with one from tbc is rather depressing. In a effort to appease casuals blizzard demolished their games difficulty curve outside of raiding.

As for your attempt at personal jab... Yes to raiding and no to pvp I only ever get to 2k for transmog then quite I rise to challenges. I do not ask they be lowered for me casual.

It's not a personal jab, it's a question. You just seem to think everyone is as rude as you are...

[Caliph]

they're really not the same thing.

I don't even know how to define casual in the context of vanilla. maybe young children who logged on and took tours of elwynn for weeks on end thinking this was the game? Or adults who slowly progressed because of time constraints?

Hardcore was raiding 5 nights a week x 4-6 hrs. a day, plus the farming and downing of bosses all teh way up to naxx. Or getting the top pvp titles and gear.

hardcores are such losers.

thank god i quit at llike 20 hrs a week. lol. i was so casual and happy to clear all the way up to nax but not nax itself.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

It has been quite reduced in terms of scope and soze. Worse yet modes that used to be training grounds for new players are now nothing but loot pinata's... trying to compare a heroic of today with one from tbc is rather depressing. In a effort to appease casuals blizzard demolished their games difficulty curve outside of raiding.

As for your attempt at personal jab... Yes to raiding and no to pvp I only ever get to 2k for transmog then quite I rise to challenges. I do not ask they be lowered for me casual.

You're a waste of time, you add nothing of value aside from an example of ignorance.

[Pandragon]

No.

In 2004 the term didn't really exist... it was more you just didn't play as much

in 2016 it means you suck and want to be carried and or have lfr become a vehicle to get BiS gear.

thats not a casual player, thats an entitled player. Someone who thinks everything should be given to them just because they pay a sub fee.

A casual player will always mean the same thing. Someone who doesnt play hard core, plays whenever they feel like it and just has fun. Just that a lot of them transformed into an Entitled Player over the years.

[Deleted]

You're a waste of time, you add nothing of value aside from an example of ignorance.

Its tough when people have different views from your own isn't it champ?

[Deleted]

Most of the difficulty in Vanilla was that your class simply didn't have tools to handle certain situations. Personally I wouldn't call it difficulty, since in many cases you didn't have any options. Some classes could handle elites, relatively easily as well, while other classes, no matter how well played, wouldn't be able to handle a single elite.

There also seems to be a common misconception that time invested somehow should relate to reward, on a much larger scale than skill. How is that fair? If I'm a great player, and I don't have 5+ hours a day to spend on the game, then I shouldn't play it? How is that good design? I can be multiple times better than some other guy, but simply because he can spend a lot more time on the game? I'd much rather have the system today, where if you play well, you can get shit done with a few hours of play time a day. Time should not be the restricting factor in a game, skill should.

Edit: Also, to the people saying the game is much easier today. Please be more specific when you say that, because someone might think you are talking about the classes. And if you truly believe classes are easier to play today than back then, then you are so utterly wrong.

So much this. Even with all the "shortcuts" and "accessibility" we still have the basic formula that people with more time on their hands will achieve more in this game. This had not changed at all. The other constraint is your guild - if you are part of a well-organised, active guild, you will get more things done in your time than in any other case. This is basically the same as in classic and all expansions before WoD. The only thing that has changed is the fact, that you can get epics without being a part of a raid guild, or any guild at all. And I find this a good thing.

I rather socialise with my RL friends and play Dungeons & Dragons or any other RPG game with them, if I want company. In WoW, I don't mind joining a PUG or random dungeon group and I perform good because I care about learning my spec, gearing properly, enchanting and gemming, and know my tactics 99% of the time. In fact, I participate often in group content when I have time to spare, I just don't want to be forced to keep track of friendlists and guilds anymore. With a full-time job and many other appointments to manage, I don't want to manage another set of schedules and appointments in the game. When one of my WoW acquaintances is online and wants to do something in a team, they can ask me and I can tell them if I have the time. I decline seldom, because I am not a total hermit. But sometimes, I just want to be left alone and immerse into the game and into my character on my own. And I should have the right to do so. Massive does not mean that everything should be a group activity.

[Lochton]

Technically, yes. But that is because I set it by amount you play.

Overall, no. A current casual goes further than a Classic WoW casual- And they didn't have a fit as often like people now.

[Ornerybear]

The average MMORPG player was FAR different than the average MMORPG player today.

Quantifying / defining casual, from a pure standpoint of "number of hours devoted to game," should reflect the average.

MMORPGs of '04 and earlier required far, far more time...to do anything. Your casuals of 2016 would have quit and asked for their money back.

Sorry kids, you missed the golden era.

exactly this...

what people need to understand is that at the time the grind standard was insane. the standard at the time was EQ which involved sitting in one spot with a single group for 8-12 hrs straight trying to single pull mobs and between pulls sitting for minutes on end waiting for mana to recover. in those 8-12hrs you may accumulate 10-20% of a level. if you died you would loose that xp progress.

WOW changed that, and as a result changed the whole genre. I was able to level into the 30s in the first 10 days at vanilla release, this was a revelation. that would have taken me a month at least in EQ. It was casual and easy mode by the standards then. The entire genre shifted to fast leveling and as the game got older and focus shifted to end game, people didn't want to spend all those hours leveling through content they had seen for 5 years. people wanted to get into WotLK.

I remember coming back to wow during wotlk and being astonished i could get to max level in roughly a month of after work evening play. i had a blast and was not at all upset at the quicker leveling. now of course it has gotten quicker since then, but there are a lot more things to get through.

I think they need to implement some sort of level scaling system to make the old content more relevant and allow people to skip certain content and see the stuff they love. I cannot stand leveling through TBC content and if i could just skip to wotlk or MoP i would be super happy. If i could go from the 1-60 zones to MoP it would make me super happy.

[randomnamegenerator16]

I would say that the main difference between casuals then and now is sense of entitlement.

[Draeth]

In 2004, you were a filthy casual if you even looked at a copy of World of Warcraft.

So, no.

[Sunnydee]

Think it has more to do with access. Back in 2004 Internet wasn't really a standard as today. If we had same connections/cost back in 04 i dont think it would of looked any difference from today

[Ravenwhisper]

Exceptions don't make the rule... the lions share of people who call themselves casuals are simply awful at the game and use it as a kind of out.

Unquestionable truth. Know tons of guys that achived nothing calling themselvs "casuals" while they are playing all day long, +8 hours most cases. So, i agree there are lots of bads calling themselvs casuals while they are not.

[spurx]

Most of the difficulty in Vanilla was that your class simply didn't have tools to handle certain situations. Personally I wouldn't call it difficulty, since in many cases you didn't have any options. Some classes could handle elites, relatively easily as well, while other classes, no matter how well played, wouldn't be able to handle a single elite.

There also seems to be a common misconception that time invested somehow should relate to reward, on a much larger scale than skill. How is that fair? If I'm a great player, and I don't have 5+ hours a day to spend on the game, then I shouldn't play it? How is that good design? I can be multiple times better than some other guy, but simply because he can spend a lot more time on the game? I'd much rather have the system today, where if you play well, you can get shit done with a few hours of play time a day. Time should not be the restricting factor in a game, skill should.

Edit: Also, to the people saying the game is much easier today. Please be more specific when you say that, because someone might think you are talking about the classes. And if you truly believe classes are easier to play today than back then, then you are so utterly wrong.

I would argue that now more than ever time is a more restricting factor in WoW than anything else. Dailies, garrisons, valor farming, all timesinks that are expected of people hoping to raid IN ADDITION to actual raiding.

In Vanilla, the requirement to raid was have 40 people willing to do it, and all be on at the same time. No farming for valor. No dailies, or time-heavy tasks related to raiding. And no, soul shard farming, or mat gathering was NOT a time-heavy task compared to dailies or valor farming.

[Daffan]

No they are not.

2016 casuals ask for easy dungeons and raids (skip mechanics/catchup) then complain there is no content.

2004-5-6-7 casuals trudged through slowly, and had valid complaints that raid sizes were too big too participate instead of just asking for skips and free gear.

[kary]

I would argue that now more than ever time is a more restricting factor in WoW than anything else. Dailies, garrisons, valor farming, all timesinks that are expected of people hoping to raid IN ADDITION to actual raiding.

In Vanilla, the requirement to raid was have 40 people willing to do it, and all be on at the same time. No farming for valor. No dailies, or time-heavy tasks related to raiding. And no, soul shard farming, or mat gathering was NOT a time-heavy task compared to dailies or valor farming.

Resistance gear farming for MC was way more timeconsuming than farming valor