Paladin Class Fantasy in Legion

[Amnaught]

What do you guys think so far?

Honestly, I hate it. I'm all for the mounted speed bosst thing, but I'm getting really tired of the transluscent yellow hammers.

I'm a Blood Knight of Quel'Thalas, who, while the Sunwell was depleted, stole his magic from a living Naaru. I use a swift elven blade, not a bulky hammer, and my angelic wings are hardly a blessing so much as a magical item of theft.

I'm a Tauren Sunwalker. I use the power of the sun to burn my foes and heal my allies. I'm more of a sun-loving druid than a holy crusader. White and gold hammers don't match a thing on me.

I absolutely loved the fact that each class had a differnet fantasy depending on the race you chose, and it really feels like they're taking that away from us. It would be so simple to have Judgement be a beam of light from above. Honestly I just don't understand where all of these white and gold hammers are coming from aside from Humans and I want it to stop.

[Teleros]

What do you guys think so far?

Nothing wrong with the class / spec fantasy as written IMHO. Some implementation problems however.

I'm a Blood Knight of Quel'Thalas, who, while the Sunwell was depleted, stole his magic from a living Naaru. I use a swift elven blade, not a bulky hammer, and my angelic wings are hardly a blessing so much as a magical item of theft.

BElves never used the Sunwell as a source of holy magic. The switch to using a Naaru came mainly due to feeling abandoned and betrayed by the Alliance*, and not being a particularly holy people in the first place. But since Sunwell Plateau they've been more like Alliance paladins, calling upon the Light rather than "stealing" it from anyone. Also, the High Elves were traditionally buddies of humanity and all that, so you'd expect the Blood Elves to copy what the traditional experts were doing when it came to wielding the Light.

*Which incidentally is stupid; the Alliance couldn't help stop the fall of Quel'thalas because the Alliance was in shambles too.

I'm a Tauren Sunwalker. I use the power of the sun to burn my foes and heal my allies. I'm more of a sun-loving druid than a holy crusader. White and gold hammers don't match a thing on me.

Yeah I'm not sure how Sunwalkers fit in with any of the existing paladin lore and stuff TBH. I guess maybe in their drive to be different from Elune-friendly druids they ended up copying regular paladins...?

I absolutely loved the fact that each class had a differnet fantasy depending on the race you chose, and it really feels like they're taking that away from us. It would be so simple to have Judgement be a beam of light from above. Honestly I just don't understand where all of these white and gold hammers are coming from aside from Humans and I want it to stop.

I think a lot of it is down to having to make a single class fantasy that encompasses all the race / spec combos. Traditional paladins can be seen amongst humans, dwarves and the draenei, all of whom are big on hammers. That leaves Blood Elves and Tauren paladins, who might reasonably be supposed to copy the traditionalists a lot of the time (at least if the Sunwalkers view themselves as paladins, not as druids). Yeah it's a compromise, but there we go.

[Deleted]

There is no class fantasy. This is a term used by developers just to prevent any debate on whichever ideas they don't feel like discussing.

[Nize]

Yeah the big problem with class fantasy is that while it firmly etches the uniqueness of the class, it absolutely kills the diversity that we had encountered in the past.

You want to see a class that's suffering even more. Look at Warriors. They're now Vikings that jump their monkey asses to Valhalla.

[Deleted]

I was fine with almost everything.

But then I found out that our class fantasy is to be raised as a death knight
That nonsense has me pissed off, I am still freaking angry.

Welcome to Warcraft. Death Knights being corrupted or raised paladins/knights has been a thing from the very beginning.

Anyway, I like class fantasy as an idea. However, the execution is lacking at the moment. At best.

[Krekko]

Yeah, I think the in-game execution of a Paladin is at an all-time low in Legion.

I mean we get The Ashbringer as Ret which is INCREDIBLE, but IDK, I feel like we've been eviscerated otherwise.

[Ulthane]

There is no class fantasy. This is a term used by developers just to prevent any debate on whichever ideas they don't feel like discussing.

Or could be used against them to retune things: This feels more like fantasy vs this.

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Yeah, I think the in-game execution of a Paladin is at an all-time low in Legion.

I mean we get The Ashbringer as Ret which is INCREDIBLE, but IDK, I feel like we've been eviscerated otherwise.

This right here. It has been a giant slap in the face after another. There are times I feel Blizzard just does not like Paladins at all.

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But if the Death Knights can go attack us like that then its only fair that the Paladins and what not retaliate eventually.

[Jademist]

What do you guys think so far?

Honestly, I hate it. I'm all for the mounted speed bosst thing, but I'm getting really tired of the transluscent yellow hammers.

I'm a Blood Knight of Quel'Thalas, who, while the Sunwell was depleted, stole his magic from a living Naaru. I use a swift elven blade, not a bulky hammer, and my angelic wings are hardly a blessing so much as a magical item of theft.

I'm a Tauren Sunwalker. I use the power of the sun to burn my foes and heal my allies. I'm more of a sun-loving druid than a holy crusader. White and gold hammers don't match a thing on me.

I absolutely loved the fact that each class had a differnet fantasy depending on the race you chose, and it really feels like they're taking that away from us. It would be so simple to have Judgement be a beam of light from above. Honestly I just don't understand where all of these white and gold hammers are coming from aside from Humans and I want it to stop.

The same with Priests to be honest. You have a diverse array of races that have access to the class but the class skills just don't fit all of them -- they fit those who use the Light but not Trolls who draw power from Loa, or Night Elves who are blessed by the light of their goddess Elune. But instead you end up with "Holy Word" spells and brilliant flashes of light that doesn't quite show the diversity of the Priest class.

It's an issue. I am sure Blizzard can devote some resources to diversifying class-race combos a little more.

[Ulthane]

The same with Priests to be honest. You have a diverse array of races that have access to the class but the class skills just don't fit all of them -- they fit those who use the Light but not Trolls who draw power from Loa, or Night Elves who are blessed by the light of their goddess Elune.

I always was lucky: Human.

But nothing ever made sense for the other races per se.

[cncrules45]

Ret Paladin class fantasy is an immobile melee spec. It is the primary thing that differentiates us from other plate specs. This is the shittiest possible fantasy/differentiator a melee class could have. I seriously don't get it.

[Deleted]

Spoilers:

Step 06: The Sanctum of Light (New) - Fight your way to the Hall of Champions.
Step 07: Lady of the Light (New) - Defeat Lady Liadrin.
Step 08: An Unholy Fate (New) - Open the Tomb of Tirion Fordring.

Apparently they renamed the toilets at Blizzard HQ to "Paladin Class Fantasy" because clearly that is where they all go to take a shit.

Is this a joke, or something that's actually gonna be in the game? DKs just raid our "order hall" and defeat one of the (very few) Paladin heroes just like that? Do we get anything in return or is Ashbringer for Ret (I play Prot, sooooo) being used to justify shitting all over the Paladin "story" forevermore?

Like, really, Liadrin is gonna lose a fight to some Death Knights on the holiest ground on Azeroth AND they're gonna resurrect Tirion as a DK? What's the fucking point then?

[Lothaeryn]

Is this a joke, or something that's actually gonna be in the game? DKs just raid our "order hall" and defeat one of the (very few) Paladin heroes just like that? Do we get anything in return or is Ashbringer for Ret (I play Prot, sooooo) being used to justify shitting all over the Paladin "story" forevermore?

I really fucking hope that is just a joke on his part, because it would pretty much mean everything he sacrificed to prevent (and was saved by the last minute from) was literally for nothing, especially in Wrath.

For fucks sake, Uther or Dathrohan would be a more reasonable candidate for that, they at least died in battle honorably but still had tasks to complete.

[Taeldorian]

I really fucking hope that is just a joke on his part, because it would pretty much mean everything he sacrificed to prevent (and was saved by the last minute from) was literally for nothing, especially in Wrath.

For fucks sake, Uther or Dathrohan would be a more reasonable candidate for that, they at least died in battle honorably but still had tasks to complete.

It's not a joke unfortunately.

[RagnorZ]

Welcome to Warcraft. Death Knights being corrupted or raised paladins/knights has been a thing from the very beginning.

Anyway, I like class fantasy as an idea. However, the execution is lacking at the moment. At best.

A paladin's body can be used to create a deathknight but doesn't have to be.

The first Deathknight was created by Gul'dan when he put an Orc Warlock's soul (Teron Gorefiend) into a dead Stormwind Knight's body.

#KnowYourLore

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I don't know if Metzen is on sabbatical or something but when you compare these legion artifact stories to say the Wrath Gate story in Wotlk or Leyara's Locket in Cata, it's hard to believe it's the same company producing them.

Maybe they need to hire that Mass Effect 1 and 2 writer to help them create some decent new story.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I really fucking hope that is just a joke on his part, because it would pretty much mean everything he sacrificed to prevent (and was saved by the last minute from) was literally for nothing, especially in Wrath.

For fucks sake, Uther or Dathrohan would be a more reasonable candidate for that, they at least died in battle honorably but still had tasks to complete.

It's no joke.
Face it and savor it.

Feth paladin lore.
Feth all what happened during Battle of Lights Hope Chapel.

Have fun.

[Eon Drache]

Spoilers:
The Fourth Horseman

Step 01: The Return to Light's Hope - Name changed from "Step 01: The Ebon Blade Returns" to "Step 01: The Return to Light's Hope".
Step 02: Preparations - Name changed from "Step 02: Prepare for Invasion" to "Step 02: Preparations".
Step 03: Upon the Hill of No Return - Name changed from "Step 03: Begin the Invasion" to "Step 03: Upon the Hill of No Return".
Step 04: The Dead Shall Rise - Name changed from "Step 04: Raise the Tomb" to "Step 04: The Dead Shall Rise".
Step 05: The Highlord Awaits - Name changed from "Step 05: Meet With Mograine" to "Step 05: The Highlord Awaits".
Step 06: The Sanctum of Light (New) - Fight your way to the Hall of Champions.
Step 07: Lady of the Light (New) - Defeat Lady Liadrin.
Step 08: An Unholy Fate (New) - Open the Tomb of Tirion Fordring.

Apparently they renamed the toilets at Blizzard HQ to "Paladin Class Fantasy" because clearly that is where they all go to take a shit.

As someone that had 1 max toon until the free boosts. And that toon being a paladin, I feel that if that happens I will be pissed. If that makes it live... It is a huge shit on Tirion and paladins.

[Lothaeryn]

As someone that had 1 max toon until the free boosts. And that toon being a paladin, I feel that if that happens I will be pissed. If that makes it live... It is a huge shit on Tirion and paladins.

Tirion of all people, should stay dead. He lost his reputation and his wife due to his moral compass as a Paladin, saw his son die before his very eyes after he was manipulated for years by the Scarlet Crusade and only shown the light of his father's deeds at the last minute. And THEN oversaw an entire campaign to end the Lich King's control over undeath once and for all after bearing witness to countless knights lose their lives at lights hope.

The fucker needs to find some peace for once, let him be with his family in the afterlife.

Blizzard is just looking for shit to make 'cool' now, and apparently making Paladins and their profession mean fuck all is good for somehow making Death Knights of the Ebon Blade no better than Arthas?

Uther and Dathrohan at least would have reasons to come back from the dead, mainly being a redemption for their failure at saving Lordaeron from the scourge. But Tirion's story is done, it should STAY done; he doesn't need a second coming as his own antithesis that he defeated at Icecrown.

[Deleted]

A paladin's body can be used to create a deathknight but doesn't have to be.

The first Deathknight was created by Gul'dan when he put an Orc Warlock's soul (Teron Gorefiend) into a dead Stormwind Knight's body.

#KnowYourLore

Eh, I suggest you try to understand the post before giving out a headless answer. I said Death Knights being corrupted or raised paladins and knights has been a thing from the very beginning (ie from the time of the RTS games). That encompasses both the Warcraft II Death Knights, the souls of numerous orcish necrolytes put into the bodies of Azerothien Knights, as well as the Warcraft III Death Knights, corrupted or raised paladins of the Silver Hand.

Also, my post does not mean a paladin body has to be used in the creation of a death knight, only that a paladin or knight body being used is not something new, it is as old as Death Knights themselves. Not to mention, a death knight not being a knight or paladin formerly actually became a thing only with the third generation.

[Deleted]

"No Tirion, we must be forgotten! Tell them only that paladins died, and became crusaders!" - Bolvar 2016.

Hate that they're just copy pasting the D3 crusader unto the paladin. Feels a little empty.

[Deleted]

I fail to understand why this is a problem unless you play on a RP realm in which case you haven't gotten very much love from Blizzards side in a long time anyway. In all honesty I'm absolutely fine with it all being very human-ish themed as in my opinion they ruined the class fantasy when they gave more races the ability to be paladins. I do understand the reasoning but I prefered Paladins being an alliance thing and Shamans being a horde thing.

It simply added that little extra flair to it, and in a sense it made the factions more unique as they had their own classes. But homogenisation, it's been a thing long before the cataclysm that happened with the release of Cataclysm.