[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[rykon1459918]

Two things I noticed....you mentioned noxxic....ignore anything they say...Icy Veins is crap too, but they're good for general knowledge not in depth...second get that crit up and that mastery down a little.

ok thanks for that, yeah i know my mastery is a little off, really just taking what I can.
Where should I look for better ideas on how to play, what i'm doing wrong etc, if those sites are bad (or not helpful for in depth)
I'm fairly new at DK's in general (only played blood tank as a alt before making the switch to frost DK main in legion) I feel as though I'm really not living up to my potential at all.

[RuneDK]

Honestly stick to this forum, there's a lot of well informed people on this thread alone. By getting that crit up I meant to 30% at a minimum. Schizoide is REALLY good at providing information regarding the spec in great detail so I would definitely see what he has to say in his posts. Myself, Dracovian, Baddock21(even though hes playing unholy), nemesquish, clash and a few others(if I didn't mention you guys sorry) all can provide overall good information to point you in the right way.

[Gorenado]

So is anyone including the artifact talent "Over-Powered" (The one that has a 10% chance to add 3/6/10 runic power) to their sims? Or are we throwing that out too? I know it'll probably be the last thing we go for down the tree, but I only ask because I had a relic that added a level for a while, and it made a difference, even with 3 in avoiding runelocking myself.

Also, have they actually added in any of our buffs yet? I understand the tooltips are usually the last thing to change, but I've tested frozen pulse on the dummies, and it still won't activate until all of my runes are depleted; it will not work with just one rune left, as the change shows. Makes me believe that they haven't actually implemented the changes yet.

Also, as an aside, has anyone tried "Chill of The Grave" yet? I was wondering if it looked any different when we frost strike at range... and now that I think about it, it probably helps out our raid dps when moving around on certain boss fights... though still not worth dropping tons of AP into off the bat probably.

Sorry, been lurking for years, and just started my account to jump in here, especially since elitist is gone...

[RuneDK]

So is anyone including the artifact talent "Over-Powered" (The one that has a 10% chance to add 3/6/10 runic power) to their sims? Or are we throwing that out too? I know it'll probably be the last thing we go for down the tree, but I only ask because I had a relic that added a level for a while, and it made a difference, even with 3 in avoiding runelocking myself.

Also, have they actually added in any of our buffs yet? I understand the tooltips are usually the last thing to change, but I've tested frozen pulse on the dummies, and it still won't activate until all of my runes are depleted; it will not work with just one rune left, as the change shows. Makes me believe that they haven't actually implemented the changes yet.

Also, as an aside, has anyone tried "Chill of The Grave" yet? I was wondering if it looked any different when we frost strike at range... and now that I think about it, it probably helps out our raid dps when moving around on certain boss fights... though still not worth dropping tons of AP into off the bat probably.

Sorry, been lurking for years, and just started my account to jump in here, especially since elitist is gone...

That specific FP buff isn't happening until 7.1

[rykon1459918]

Honestly stick to this forum, there's a lot of well informed people on this thread alone. By getting that crit up I meant to 30% at a minimum. Schizoide is REALLY good at providing information regarding the spec in great detail so I would definitely see what he has to say in his posts. Myself, Dracovian, Baddock21(even though hes playing unholy), nemesquish, clash and a few others(if I didn't mention you guys sorry) all can provide overall good information to point you in the right way.

Thank you heaps for the reply, I'll start going through everyones posts :-)

[Darktbs]

Curiosity,is shattering strikes a good choice for the first talent?

Im not playing right now due to tests but when i left i was using.

Shattering Shards.
HoW
Icecap
Winter is coming
Permafrost
Frostscythe
Glacial advance.

im going to change Icecap when i get back but im not shure about ShatteringStrikes.

[Gorenado]

That specific FP buff isn't happening until 7.1

But we DO know the damage buffs are implemented?

[Freedom]

I tried out Frost for the first time since hotfix, and it feels better. Mainly, I did a random hero with Fscythe talented, as well as IT, FP and Avalanche, and FScythe was only 17% of my damage overall. Now I can see where this IT/FP/Avalanche/Runic Attenuation master spec is coming from - good AoE AND good ST, and doesn't require any fucking around with talents between pulls, OR changing runeforges(Shattering Strikes).

I'll see what my AoE is like without FScythe, but I can see the build working well. The only maitenance is keeping IT up.

[Schizoide]

Yes the hotfix buffs are in, and simcraft has every artifact trait.

[meumaxu]

NVM i found you, what talents did u have had during the encounters ?

ranked 17th now on H Dragons full MG spec


Im usin standard talents for MG

[ant13]

Good morning everyone, we did our second HC run yesterday, I must admit that the new frost (I was used to FSc spam on last reset's clear), felt way better than the MG build. I like it better, and I did better although I had some fps/ms issues (dunno what is happening in this instance tbh). I didn't play it optimally I must admit that, there is a lot of space for improvements on my side but I did well. Only the eye boss caused me some problems but I failed hard xD, I didn't manage to get in to the heart for a second time due to some blobs left outside and someone had to kill them...

Anyway, the way I see it is that the standard frost spec (RA) is going to be the raiding spec and the MG (FSc) one will be for dungeons.

P.S. I regret the moment I spend 45-50k AP into Apocalypse....

[Gr1mdark]

Hello guys!

Back to you with some updates from yesterdays raid.
We cleared full normal and 3 bosses in heroic, so i could test Frost on every boss in the raid.

Unfortunately it didnt turn out very well.
First of all, the Aoe was great, but the cooldown on rw still gave me a feeling, that we lack somethin sustain.
I couldnt take FSc as it would drop my st damage.

So, regarding the state of things. To each boss.

Nythendra - Very easy st boss. My Dps didnt went above 250k, which was very avarage regarding the whole raid.
Il'gi - Here we used the zerg strategy, where as I managed to cleave the blood and give em a bit of Sindy.
Still, after getting to the heart and using bloodlust, I dropped down to 241k ...
Elerethe Renferal - Some nice cleaves and single target, but the same thing again, 244k
Usoc was the boss I was looking foward to test the new buffs, But again. Capped at 249k dps
Dragons were okay, as I could drop the shadows with ease, but the st was somehow capped again at 246k.
Cenaruis - Had some time where I could not stick to a target, which droped down the dps by a bit - 234 k. Maybe I just didnt play well at this one...
Xavius - Okay, whis one is our place to shine (those were my thought) A lot of cleaving, bursting and aoe on the third phase.
257k dps at the end... not really.

So what have I noticed.
First of all the burst. At the stard of every fight everyone uses their cooldown with prepots, to burst as much as they can.
This was the place where I found myself at the very bottom.
We have no real burst like, lets say Unholy, with their 8 shores -apoc bust, transformation and garg...
So I was bursting for 350k, while everyone else for about 450.

So what this shows is that Frost right now is somehow capped at 250k dps.
No matter waht i did and how i tried, I could not get past this line. The sims look pretty accurate here...
So basicly, Frost is okay, but still it lacks some kind of... scaling, i guess?

I ended up with 857 ilvl beeing somwhere in the middle of Skada.
Here are the logs, as promissed, i've tried the talons-pulse build.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...6703128/latest
(Please press the "normal" button)

[gixxpunk]

ok I spent a few hours just now setting up my frost spec, bars, WAs from scratch etc.


build is 2233213 (so FScythe, no RA)

and I tried hitting a target dummy in OG (a minute+ each time):

(1) only using Oblit + Frost Strike
(2) only using FScythe + Frost Strike

kind of a crude method, but still .. basically see in a very raw way which - Oblit or FScythe - will give me more DPS on pure ST .. to my surprise, FScythe dps was a bit higher after this "experiment" (on pure ST) .. I assume thats due to its 4x crit + the fact that Frost dmg isnt reduced by armor

of course this ignored Rime procs, since I wasnt hitting HB at all, but still - I dont think Rime dmg would be that high, so that Oblit could overshadow FScythes dmg by a lot ..

and keeping in mind:

- the more crit and mastery, the more FScythe will pull ahead
- the more armor the mob has - the worse Oblit is
- this was just pure ST .. as soon as you start hitting another add - FScythe sky-rockets away from Oblit .. I mean if it was a bit better on ST, then on 2x mobs it will leave Oblit in the dust, wouldnt it ?

now obviously by taking RA - Oblit would pull ahead, but in 5-man setup its really not an option to NOT have FScythe, its just so insanely good for AoE



.. what Im saying is that - for a dungeon-focused Frost DK - is Obliterate even worth having on your bars then ? its useless in cleave/AoE, and even in ST (and in 5-mans you dont really worry much about ST .. the trash is very often harder than boss) the dps difference with FScythe looks to be small to non-existant

and I feel like with not having Oblit at all on my bars and just spamming FScythe without thinking (instead of choosing between Oblit and FScythe each time) - I will have more attention to spare on other things like optimal FPulse/IT uptimes etc. (and more optimal usage of Pillar of Frost) and mechanics ^^

I honestly want to use FScythe now 24/7 (even in ST, rare that it is in 5-mans) and forget Oblit exists, but idk if my math here is stupid or what

Sorry to tell you, but your test was worthless, as you completely ignored Rime and even more important Runic Attenuation.

I also see lot's of people writing about 30% crit beeing mandatory. This is wrong if you use Runic Attenuation instead of Frostscythe. Haste is very important for non FSc gameplay.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, the Aoe was great, but the cooldown on rw still gave me a feeling, that we lack somethin sustain.

Chill of the Grave will help alot and should not be too far away for most players.

[Deleted]

Don't regret it, it seems it's still better than frost, too bad Dk is overall te worst class ingame with worst movement ability , and low single target dps compared to other classes, and the fact that we are still happy with this...we are not loud enough to blizz do an overall dmg increase. Don't understand why it's good them that keeping us this low...

[Life-Binder]

Sorry to tell you, but your test was worthless, as you completely ignored Rime and even more important Runic Attenuation.

(1) I mentioned no Rime, but how much % of an increase does it give on avg ?
(2) RA is not really an option at all here, Im specifically talking about a 5-man (no raiding at all) Frost build here and theres just no way you dont take FScythe for dungeons


my question was: with the FScythe build (no RA) - by how much % is no-KM Obliterate superior to no-KM FScythe on ST ? Is it a substantial difference or only a few % ?

Although I guess that could depend a lot on which relics you have and whether they favor Oblit or FScythe

Anyway, the way I see it is that the standard frost spec (RA) is going to be the raiding spec and the MG (FSc) one will be for dungeons.

seems to be the case

but Unholy is still better than RA Frost in raids

[gixxpunk]

(2) RA is not really an option at all here, Im specifically talking about a 5-man (no raiding at all) Frost build here and theres just no way you dont take FScythe for dungeons

This is simply wrong. I do not run FSc and my AOE is good in Myth+. We only did 6+ last week, but I don't see a problem here.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42509614

[Gr1mdark]

but Unholy is still better than RA Frost in raids

Yup, unfortunately, my yestrdays raiding showed that frost is still not good for raids.
For Normal its okay, but if we are talking heroic or myth... unholy pulls ahead in scaling.
It is just too hard to get frost above those 250k dps... I have no idea how...

[gixxpunk]

Gear. If you break ilv 860 you will break 250k easily.

[Gr1mdark]

Gear. If you break ilv 860 you will break 250k easily.

I am now 857 and the dmg as the same when I was 849... may be, but still it looks like it needs much more than uh... unfortunately.
If oblit would scale with mastery, this would change things very much. We could go for haste-mastery and scale well.

[Maxweii]

Honestly stick to this forum, there's a lot of well informed people on this thread alone. By getting that crit up I meant to 30% at a minimum. Schizoide is REALLY good at providing information regarding the spec in great detail so I would definitely see what he has to say in his posts. Myself, Dracovian, Baddock21(even though hes playing unholy), nemesquish, clash and a few others(if I didn't mention you guys sorry) all can provide overall good information to point you in the right way.

Rune pls you forsake me