[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Deleted]

And everybody uses double razorice?

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This my general use build i run for most content solos, 5man heroic/mythic http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/d...ght/frost/M2pM

Thanks, would love to see other people's setups as well.

[Gemini Soul]

And everybody uses double razorice?

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Thanks, would love to see other people's setups as well.

No, you want to run RI/FC. Double RI is what they intend for a SS build, but it doesn't really compete with loosing FC proc yet.

[zvr]

I've heard that with low mastery it's better to use Obliterate KM than Frostscythe KM on single target. Is that true?
How much mastery is needed to make Frostscythe KM viable on single target?

[Gemini Soul]

I wonder if i should be using RW on ST because right now 2 of my 3 relics are buffing RW dmg up to 25% dmg and my 3rd relic is giving me +1% frost dmg. I also have 30.41% mastery atm

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I've heard that with low mastery it's better to use Obliterate KM than Frostscythe KM on single target. Is that true?
How much mastery is needed to make Frostscythe KM viable on single target?

I've heard ~23% mastery

[Deleted]

For a Frozen Pulse + avalanche build I'm assuming mastery > haste?

Currently with ~30% crit and 38% mastery Frostscythe is doing more damage per rune than obliterate even on single target (especially with PoF active and the 10% more frost damage), but I have no idea if this is optimal. Well, not that I have much of a choice so far, mastery and crit seem to be everywhere.

[Hctaz]

I've heard that with low mastery it's better to use Obliterate KM than Frostscythe KM on single target. Is that true?
How much mastery is needed to make Frostscythe KM viable on single target?

*sigh* this sucks. We're already forsaking Obliterate for a 1 Rune, spammable, frost damage AoE attack again. I had hoped this wouldn't be the case.

[hellhamster]

*sigh* this sucks. We're already forsaking Obliterate for a 1 Rune, spammable, frost damage AoE attack again, like in every expansion. I had hoped this wouldn't be the case.

Fixed it for ya.

[Hctaz]

Fixed it for ya.

Minus Wrath when the spec played like it was intended to be played ._. The only reason we ended up spamming Howling Blast is because they changed it to be one rune only and replace Icy Touch. It was a huge buff to the spec as we now had a reliable way to apply Frost Fever to everything instead of needing to use Icy Touch and get a Rime proc and one that was needed although it had unintended consequences. The intended design of this expansion was to remove the Masterfrost build from existence which is why they made Howling Blast hit like a wet noodle.

[hellhamster]

Minus Wrath when the spec played like it was intended to be played ._. The only reason we ended up spamming Howling Blast is because they changed it to be one rune only and replace Icy Touch. It was a huge buff to the spec as we now had a reliable way to apply Frost Fever to everything instead of needing to use Icy Touch and get a Rime proc and one that was needed although it had unintended consequences. The intended design of this expansion was to remove the Masterfrost build from existence which is why they made Howling Blast hit like a wet noodle.

The strongest spec for a while in wrath was dual wield unholy, which utilized death and decay priority. Unholy, I know, and during an expansion with A LOT of experimentation going on, but just throwing it out there.

[Gemini Soul]

Anyone remember the 32/34 cookie cutter build. it was DW frost enough to get HB and the rest in Unholy for the DW perks

[Baddok21]

If they would just make Frostscythe deal higher single target dmg with a 6 second cooldown AND only deal cleave while under the effect of remorseless winter alot of these issues would be solved.

aside from that Frost needs a real cooldown outside of Sindragosa Fury. 20% Strength... has never been decent and continues to be a laughable cooldown.

[Dracovian]

If they would just make Frostscythe deal higher single target dmg with a 6 second cooldown AND only deal cleave while under the effect of remorseless winter alot of these issues would be solved.

aside from that Frost needs a real cooldown outside of Sindragosa Fury. 20% Strength... has never been decent and continues to be a laughable cooldown.

OR they can finally fix Obliterate so that it doesn't cannibalize Crit or make it cost 1 rune.

[Maxweii]

OR they can finally fix Obliterate so that it doesn't cannibalize Crit or make it cost 1 rune.

As is the ability works fine and unless you play an intentionally fucky talent selection it's worth using. A lot of people who post here play the rotation which intentionally omits it, then complain about omitting it.

[Dracovian]

As is the ability works fine and unless you play an intentionally fucky talent selection it's worth using. A lot of people who post here play the rotation which intentionally omits it, then complain about omitting it.

The way KM works it self devalues crit the higher gear levels we keep getting. It again bottlenecks scaling by bad design. Something has to be done so that Frost gets full value out of crit. Being able to get more damage in the long run from omitting an ability that Blizzard insists is the class signature shows you it needs to be looked at.

[hellhamster]

So, we all agree that an Obliterate buff is in order? Or at least that it scales better/properly.

[jRob917]

The way KM works it self devalues crit the higher gear levels we keep getting. It again bottlenecks scaling by bad design. Something has to be done so that Frost gets full value out of crit. Being able to get more damage in the long run from omitting an ability that Blizzard insists is the class signature shows you it needs to be looked at.

I forget which class it is, but I've seen a mechanic on a guaranteed crit in which crit chance % becomes a flat damage increase %. Baking something like that into Killing Machine would make crit much more desirable and give Obliterate much more usefulness.

I kinda like the aforementioned idea of Frostscythe gaining it's cleave from RW. Maybe cause Frostscythe to replace Obliterate, so that it can shine on AoE encounters and allows Frost to pick up Runic Attenuation (sp?) for ST fights to help compensate for terrible ST dps.

[Gemini Soul]

So, we all agree that an Obliterate buff is in order? Or at least that it scales better/properly.

Yeah, they really dropped the ball. With the Artifact there was so many things they could of done with Oblit to make it scale with mastery and/or make it scale better.

[RuneDK]

So, we all agree that an Obliterate buff is in order? Or at least that it scales better/properly.

I personally think it needs much more than just an obliterate buff. The entire spec is overall very fun...more than it's been in years. With that said though, in dungeons I am always the last to get to the party(especially when there's a DH tank) and I am thus playing catch up in damage from the get go. While I fully understand that dungeon damage doesn't matter, it makes me think in raids if there's high mobility to get from one end to the other end of the area...which honestly rarely happens in an encounter we're majorly fucked. To get demolished by DH's with less gear and a fuckton more mobility(when we're on the target close to the same time) is really making me question why I decided to stick with my DK. Luckily the leveling process is really amazing now where I am pretty much going to give my DK a few more weeks and move on most likely. Frost needs substantial buffs to the entire kit, not just Obliterate.

However, My biggest issues come with the fact that we have to rely on RNG to do decent damage...I've gone a full thirty seconds without a KM proc on a boss and the damage is just flat out horrible. Then in AoE...GA/RW aren't enough...they have longer cooldowns than epidemic and don't do nearly the damage epidemic does. And those are just the reliable AoE since FSc really isn't worth using at my gear level outside of KM. They had a chance to actually fix the spec with this fantasy crap they keep spewing, but I feel they just continued to band-aid the spec instead of giving it the complete overhaul it actually needed.

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Yeah, they really dropped the ball. With the Artifact there was so many things they could of done with Oblit to make it scale with mastery and/or make it scale better.

See, I said that Obliterate needs to scale directly with mastery and got so many people jumping down my throat saying it does through Rime procs. The ability itself NEEDS to benefit from mastery, not an rng proc from using said ability.

[Deleted]

Then in AoE...GA/RW aren't enough...they have longer cooldowns than epidemic and don't do nearly the damage epidemic does. And those are just the reliable AoE since FSc really isn't worth using at my gear level outside of KM.

Just out of curiosity, what ilvl and %crit are we talking about? Even before level 110 I never had problem with AoE cleave, at all. I'd say it's by far Frost's main strength. In fact there has never been anyone capable of outdamaging me in dungeons ever since 108 until current mythics, not hunters, not DHs, not shammies no one at all. Avalanche + Frozen Pulse + GA + RW + FS gives you sustained ~600k dps for the 20 seconds of PoF in packs of 3 with +~150k per each extra mob.

If there is something that frost can currently complain about is the lack of mobility and survivability as a melee + how mediocre the ST damage is when you take those 2 weaknesses into account. Scaling with gear might also be a problem but it will depend on how efficient mastery stacking will be.

Edited spelling mistakes.

[Dracovian]

I forget which class it is, but I've seen a mechanic on a guaranteed crit in which crit chance % becomes a flat damage increase %. Baking something like that into Killing Machine would make crit much more desirable and give Obliterate much more usefulness.

I kinda like the aforementioned idea of Frostscythe gaining it's cleave from RW. Maybe cause Frostscythe to replace Obliterate, so that it can shine on AoE encounters and allows Frost to pick up Runic Attenuation (sp?) for ST fights to help compensate for terrible ST dps.

Yeah, Warlock's Chaos Bolt. That would be the simplest way to fix Obliterate and give Frost a much needed dps bump.