The Legion table - Ion's additional response

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Kelliak isn't here for a discussion. He is here to further his agenda and anyone who doesn't believe his agenda is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Anytime you hear someone say they don't believe a press release from a company because "insert conspiracy reason here" is actually true instead, they're not worth talking to.

Because eating up what everyone tells you who's deeply invested in reaping your money and support is healthy and wise.

I feel like I've gone to sleep and woken up in an alternate reality where greed doesn't triumph over all else. In fact, going by this rhetoric, it has somehow been vanquished in this dimension and replaced with only good will and puppy dogs.

[IxilaFA]

Because every company is. Haven't you learned anything from being, y'know, alive?

I've learned a lot from being alive, and what I've learned is that most companies are staffed by normal people like you and me who are just trying to succeed and make a living. Like us, they make mistakes, and oftentimes those mistakes can have far reaching consequences. If you believe that there are eight suits at Blizzard meeting in a dark room at midnight every week and deciding how best to screw over the playerbase, you're hopelessly lost in your understanding of the world and how society works.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

If you had your way, though, rogues would have been taken out of the game when they were weak because "It's a ruined class Blizzard and nobody (ie, I don't) enjoys playing it, can't you see that? Stop wasting time on Rogues because they are never going to work. People would rather play Warlocks instead."

That comparison still makes about zero sense, as they're a core facet of the game and loved by probably just as many as hate them. If you went that route, you'd remove every class from the game. It's quite a bit different when we're talking about an almost unanimously hated feature from a unanimously hated expansion being forced awkwardly in just for the sake of. One makes no sense, the other makes perfect sense if you're wanting to distance yourself from past failures.

Not to mention, how in any shape or form is it redeemable? It simply isn't. It didn't belong to begin with and just because we're moving into a new expansion doesn't suddenly make it okay.

[Deleted]

...Because rogues are a core facet of the game and have been for over a decade? The quality of your comparisons reflect you all too well.

Its like you are not even trying anymore.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I've learned a lot from being alive, and what I've learned is that most companies are staffed by normal people like you and me who are just trying to succeed and make a living. Like us, they make mistakes, and oftentimes those mistakes can have far reaching consequences. If you believe that there are eight suits at Blizzard meeting in a dark room at midnight every week and deciding how best to screw over the playerbase, you're hopelessly lost in your understanding of the world and how society works.

No, I think they meet in broad daylight and discuss it in less overt tones with nearly the same result.

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Its like you are not even trying anymore.

Funny, I wasn't going to say the same about you. Actually make some comparisons that are applicable please.

[IxilaFA]

That comparison still makes about zero sense, as they're a core facet of the game and loved by probably just as many as hate them. If you went that route, you'd remove every class from the game. It's quite a bit different when we're talking about an almost unanimously hated feature from a unanimously hated expansion being forced awkwardly in just for the sake of. One makes no sense, the other makes perfect sense if you're wanting to distance yourself from past failures.

Not to mention, how in any shape or form is it redeemable? It simply isn't. It didn't belong to begin with and just because we're moving into a new expansion doesn't suddenly make it okay.

You're speaking for the community again and you have zero right to do that. You didn't like garrison missions, that's fucking it. Some other people voice their complaints occasionally too.

You have zero right to say whether it belonged in the game in the first place, either. You can argue it didn't work out very well, but you don't have any fucking clue whether it should have been cut to begin with or not. Stop acting like because you don't want something means nobody else wants something. Can't you see that's what you're doing here? And the comparison to Rogues is spot on. Imagine trying to make that complaint in Vanilla, for example. "I don't like Rogues, nobody likes Rogues, take them out Blizzard!"

Bottom line, stop trying to speak for the community and then we can have an actual discussion.

[Captnrex]

As long as you are not forced to do it, and I am fine with your 3rd artifact slot being locked behind you class story (from what I understood of what he was saying) for when you hit 110.

besides the initial parts of garrison mission I barely messed with it, unless I had to do say the dock to open tannan jungle, so personally I am pretty "meh" on the topic either way. Though I disliked other things about garrisons..... But thats not what this is about.

[Taeldorian]

Just a bunch more bullshit. Stop reassuring us that we want something we don't want. Jesus Christ! Fuck these garrison-esque missions and give us missions that we actually go do ourselves! Like with our own character! Like we have to mash the buttons and do the movements! Dropping a square into another square and pressing go is not fun! How hard is this that he has to keep making posts to justify this stupidity!

See, that's the problem. "Fuck these garrison-esque missions". He literally just explained that these missions don't give the same rewards, and are not completed in the same way as garrison missions, did you even read the OP at all? Missions that we do ourselves and go out into the world would get so repetitive, people would just get bored of it quickly and complain. We've already went over this in the other threads, but having us go out and actually do the missions would just get boring, as I just stated, and it's definitely an awful idea.

I will admit that originally I thought that going out and doing the missions ourselves would be insanely awesome, but after thinking about it a little bit more in depth, I can see why this isn't a thing. Rather than just flaming, you should probably think about it as well. One thing I could see being cool is having the option to do either-or, meaning if you want to go out and do the missions yourself you can, but if you don't have the time you can choose to use the mission table.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

You're speaking for the community again and you have zero right to do that. You didn't like garrison missions, that's fucking it. Some other people voice their complaints occasionally too.

You have zero right to say whether it belonged in the game in the first place, either. You can argue it didn't work out very well, but you don't have any fucking clue whether it should have been cut to begin with or not. Stop acting like because you don't want something means nobody else wants something. Can't you see that's what you're doing here? And the comparison to Rogues is spot on. Imagine trying to make that complaint in Vanilla, for example. "I don't like Rogues, nobody likes Rogues, take them out Blizzard!"

Bottom line, stop trying to speak for the community and then we can have an actual discussion.

The majority didn't like garrison missions. I might not be speaking for EVERYONE but I am still speaking for the majority when I say that the feature was not liked and is not welcomed back for an encore. People dropped off for many reasons but the garrison tripe was basically the whip getting everybody to make that final move towards cancellation. Bringing it back makes zero sense and it's not going to make the game any better with its presence.

Bottom line? Garrisons were an outright failure. So what makes anyone think they should force a given aspect of them into Legion? Not only is that idiotic from a marketing perspective but even on the basis of, "WE CAN FIX IT" - no, you can't. It's not that simple. The underlying design of them is just bad for this sort of game. MOVE ON. Why drag down another product at all with this weight? There is no sense in it and that's why they desperately need leadership.

[Schizoide]

There are millions of WoW players; I'm sure some people liked follower missions. I'm not one of them.

This bit of ruckus isn't why I'm not buying Legion, but it does make me feel smug about that decision.

[Deleted]

No, I think they meet in broad daylight and discuss it in less overt tones with nearly the same result.

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Funny, I wasn't going to say the same about you. Actually make some comparisons that are applicable please.

I did. And instead of adressing them you simply brushed over them.

Facts are:

Watcher told you the new "mission tables" will give you missions that make you go into the world.

You dont believe it. Fine. Nothing he can do about that.

But making up a discussion with "mission tables are the same even though i've been explained they arent AND IT SUCKS" makes no fucking sense at all

[Molvonos]

The majority is little more than the vocal minority on one site. Sorry. You're not the majority and you're looking mighty fucking stupid for trying to say you are.

Move on.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I did. And instead of adressing them you simply brushed over them.

Facts are:

Watcher told you the new "mission tables" will give you missions that make you go into the world.

You dont believe it. Fine. Nothing he can do about that.

But making up a discussion with "mission tables are the same even though i've been explained they arent AND IT SUCKS" makes no fucking sense at all

I did address them but thanks for ignoring that. Blocked.

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The majority is little more than the vocal minority on one site. Sorry. You're not the majority and you're looking mighty fucking stupid for trying to say you are.

Move on.

Except we are the majority, by far, that is simply fact. Sick of arguing the obvious. Blocked.

[IxilaFA]

The majority didn't like garrison missions. I might not be speaking for EVERYONE but I am still speaking for the majority when I say that the feature was not liked and is not welcomed back for an encore. People dropped off for many reasons but the garrison tripe was basically the whip getting everybody to make that final move towards cancellation. Bringing it back makes zero sense and it's not going to make the game any better with its presence.

Bottom line? Garrisons were an outright failure. So what makes anyone think they should force a given aspect of them into Legion?

In order to know what the majority thinks you would need to be able to access the opinions of 2.5 million players. Can you do that? No you cannot. Fifteen people on MMO-C complaining about garrisons doesn't mean jack shit in the end, especially when most of the people who do play the game and do enjoy it never go on the forums.

You are just applying subscriber loss to your pet peeve: People didn't like garrisons, obviously that's why they quit.

For what it's worth, the most common complaint I see about garrisons is that there's nothing else to do besides garrisons. For the first couple months, people I know in game genuinely liked garrisons and enjoyed the interaction. So if Blizzard implements some of the systems from garrisons into an expansion where a lot of other content available, I can see them being positively received.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

In order to know what the majority thinks you would need to be able to access the opinions of 2.5 million players. Can you do that? No you cannot. Fifteen people on MMO-C complaining about garrisons doesn't mean jack shit in the end, especially when most of the people who do play the game and do enjoy it never go on the forums.

You are just applying subscriber loss to your pet peeve: People didn't like garrisons, obviously that's why they quit.

For what it's worth, the most common complaint I see about garrisons is that there's nothing else to do besides garrisons. For the first couple months, people I know in game genuinely liked garrisons and enjoyed the interaction. So if Blizzard implements some of the systems from garrisons into an expansion where a lot of other content available, I can see them being positively received.

Where the fuck are you getting 2.5 million from? I've got about 7 million that dropped off the game shortly after WoD's release that say otherwise.

You know what? Fuck off. Blocked. The intellectual dishonesty is becoming too much.

[IxilaFA]

Where the fuck are you getting 2.5 million from? I've got about 7 million that dropped off the game shortly after WoD's release that say otherwise.

You know what? Fuck off. Blocked. The intellectual dishonesty is becoming too much.

That makes your point worse, so I guess rather than know what 2.5 million people are thinking you know what 5 million people are thinking?

[Deleted]

I did address them but thanks for ignoring that. Blocked.

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Except we are the majority, by far, that is simply fact. Sick of arguing the obvious. Blocked.

Once again. Not adressing them. Then blocking me. What a fucking idiot lol

[Jinpachi]

Just a bunch more bullshit. Stop reassuring us that we want something we don't want. Jesus Christ! Fuck these garrison-esque missions and give us missions that we actually go do ourselves! Like with our own character! Like we have to mash the buttons and do the movements! Dropping a square into another square and pressing go is not fun! How hard is this that he has to keep making posts to justify this stupidity!

You need to re-read the post. What you want is exactly what you will be getting with the Order Hall campaign quests. Stop being so motherfucking hateful.

[Deleted]

Just a bunch more bullshit. Stop reassuring us that we want something we don't want. Jesus Christ! Fuck these garrison-esque missions and give us missions that we actually go do ourselves! Like with our own character! Like we have to mash the buttons and do the movements! Dropping a square into another square and pressing go is not fun! How hard is this that he has to keep making posts to justify this stupidity!

You didn't even bother reading. Maybe too many long sentences? Is it easier to judge without reading?

He said " If you get a "raid mission," it won't give you a piece of raid loot directly; it will give you a quest to kill a specific boss in that zone, in exchange for a bonus piece of loot."

So yes, THEY ARE FIXING IT. You get to go and kill things YOURSELF. Stop blaming Blizzard for not listening.

[Jinpachi]

Because every company is. Haven't you learned anything from being, y'know, alive?

Who let the troll out?

Infracted [MoanaLisa]