The Alliance and Lordaeron

[Night Wind]

Saying that "it no longer exists" and "I don't care" are two very very very different things. Calia knows the old kingdom is destroyed yes, but that in no way, shape, or form means that she doesn't care about her old homeland. Like I said. The events of the 3rd war are still in the recent past (10-15 years ago). Calia is still a citizen of Lordaeron in her mind I'm sure.

Nah, what has she done to show or even imply she cares?

[Time Sage]

Even arthas' sister doesn't give a shit about Lordaeron. Like I said, blizzard wants the Alliance to be unable to let it go.

More like the Symbol has been there since classic wow, at which point it had only been a couple years in universe since the fall of lorderon and it was still a recent event. At the time, the symbol was everywhere. It's been used less and less as time went on but existing depctions were never replaced.

[Rizendragon]

Nah, what has she done to show or even imply she cares?

*Sigh* You just want to be argumentative. You either have no idea what loyalty to your homeland is or you are being intentionally obtuse...

[Night Wind]

More like the Symbol has been there since classic wow, at which point it had only been a couple years in universe since the fall of lorderon and it was still a recent event. At the time, the symbol was everywhere. It's been used less and less as time went on but existing depctions were never replaced.

Having a few flags with the symbol here and there doesn't bother me. But even in vanilla, Lordaeron belonged to the undead. Having the L of Lordaeron as the Alliance pvp symbol implies the Alliance is fighting for Lordaeron. Just like the Horde symbol represents the Horde forces fight for the Horde.

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*Sigh* You just want to be argumentative. You either have no idea what loyalty to your homeland is or you are being intentionally obtuse...

So do you have any proof to your claim that she cares or no?

[Rizendragon]

So do you have any proof to your claim that she cares or no?

Human. Emotion. We don't know much about her tbh, but based on what we know about human emotion it's reasonable to believe that she would still hold loyalty to the Kingdom of Lordaeron. She is the Heir to the Throne of the Kingdom of Lordaeron after all.

This is all we know about her. The RPG isn't cannon so that part is out. It more seems she says that "Lordaeron is gone" with a significant amount of sorrow which implies that she still holds loyalty to the old kingdom.

[Night Wind]

Human. Emotion. We don't know much about her tbh, but based on what we know about human emotion it's reasonable to believe that she would still hold loyalty to the Kingdom of Lordaeron. She is the Heir to the Throne of the Kingdom of Lordaeron after all...

Arthas was human too. Emotions and stuff. He didnt care about lordaeron though. So no actual proof. OK.

[Rizendragon]

Arthas was human too. Emotions and stuff. He didnt care about lordaeron though. So no actual proof. OK.

Actually he did. To a fault. That is the entire story of Arthas. He doubts his own abilities. He grew up in the shadow of Varian and he wants to prove himself to his father and he desperately wants to be the savior of his homeland. When he took up the blade Frostmourne he fully believed it was the only way to save his Lordaeron. It wasn't until after the Lich King started to corrupt his soul that he turned against his kingdom.

Proof of this - Rise of the Lich King

[Raetary]

Arthas was human too. Emotions and stuff. He didnt care about lordaeron though. So no actual proof. OK.

arthas did.
then he turned crazy and said fck the land.

[Night Wind]

Actually he did. To a fault. That is the entire story of Arthas. He doubts his own abilities. He grew up in the shadow of Varian and he wants to prove himself to his father and he desperately wants to be the savior of his homeland. When he took up the blade Frostmourne he fully believed it was the only way to save his homeland. It wasn't until after the Lich King started to corrupt his soul that he turned against his homeland.

Proof of this - Rise of the Lich King

That still doesn't prove calia cares though. Even if she did care for it at one time like Arthas did. It seems she no longer cares.

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arthas did.
then he turned crazy and said fck the land.

I'm sure calia used to care too. But the question is does she care now?

[Raetary]

I'm sure calia used to care too. But the question is does she care now?

nope. - priest artifact quests.

[Rizendragon]

I'm sure calia used to care too. But the question is does she care now?

nope. - priest artifact quests.

We still don't have a full list of her dialogue from Legion. As I said before. You can acknowledge that something is in the past while still longing for it (re: rose colored glasses ie: most vanilla wow players). Not caring about the old kingdom and not caring to take it back are very different emotions.

As a side note; this thread pretty much sums up why gamers are seen a socially awkward. They fail at subtle nuance that amounts to very different trains of thought and very different emotions.

[Night Wind]

We still don't have a full list of her dialogue from Legion. As I said before. You can acknowledge that something is in the past while still longing for it (re: rose colored glasses ie: most vanilla wow players). Not caring about the old kingdom and not caring to take it back are very different emotions.

If you care about something dear to you, and it was "taken away", you would want it back. If you don't care, then you don't care. The Alliance flying the banner of Lordaeron is similar to the US flying the Confederate flag. Obviously the ideals of said flags are not the same. But the idea of flying a symbol of the past because you can't let it go and wish to return to those times is dumb. It means blizzard intentionally wants the Alliance to be associated with Lordaeron. Hence why Metzen calls the Alliance, the Alliance of Lordaeron.

[Rizendragon]

If you care about something dear to you, and it was "taken away", you would want it back. If you don't care, then you don't care. The Alliance flying the banner of Lordaeron is similar to the US flying the Confederate flag. Obviously the ideals of said flags are not the same. But the idea of flying a symbol of the past because you can't let it go and wish to return to those times is dumb. It means blizzard intentionally wants the Alliance to be associated with Lordaeron. Hence why Metzen calls the Alliance, the Alliance of Lordaeron.

You are obviously not from the USA to be making that analogy... It's a very different concept. Also: it's a vocal minority that wants the Confederate Flag to be flown. Most of us would rather see it in history books only. I could just as easily say that it would be like Germans wanting the Nazi Flag to be flown again. I'm sure some would agree with that, but the majority don't. Lets not turn this into a nation bash thread though.

As I said a person can feel a loyalty and a longing for something while accepting that it isn't feasible.

Double side bar here - Someone previously said that she is very old at this point. This isn't true at all. According to the official timeline Calia was 6 when the first war started. This puts her at about 37-38 years old. She is about the same age as Varian.

[Night Wind]

You are obviously not from the USA to be making that analogy... It's a very different concept. Also: it's a vocal minority that wants the Confederate Flag to be flown. Most of us would rather see it in history books only. I could just as easily say that it would be like Germans wanting the Nazi Flag to be flown again. I'm sure some would agree with that, but the majority don't. Lets not turn this into a nation bash thread though.

As I said a person can feel a loyalty and a longing for something while accepting that it isn't feasible.

Double side bar here - Someone previously said that she is very old at this point. This isn't true at all. According to the official timeline Calia was 6 when the first war started. This puts her at about 37-38 years old. She is about the same age as Varian.

I see you missed the part where I said the ideals of said flags are not the same. The point I was making was using the L of lordaeron, a symbol of the Alliance's past, implies the Alliance can't get over the past. Similar to those who want the Confederate flag flown can't get over the past. Do you understand?

[Rizendragon]

I see you missed the part where I said the ideals of said flags are not the same. The point I was making was using the L of lordaeron, a symbol of the Alliance's past, implies the Alliance can't get over the past. Similar to those who want the Confederate flag flown can't get over the past. Do you understand?

Uhm no. Because your analogy isn't correct. The ideals of Stormwind and Lordaeron are basically the same... Literally the only difference is geography...

[Night Wind]

Uhm no. Because your analogy isn't correct. The ideals of Stormwind and Lordaeron are basically the same... Literally the only difference is geography...

You're missing the point again. It's not about the ideals of the flag. It's about letting go of the past, the kingdom of Lordaeron.
So why isn't the pvp symbol the lion of stormwind? As you said the ideals are the same. Except Stormwind is actually in the current Alliance while Lordaeron isn't. It's clinging to the past.

[Rizendragon]

You're missing the point again. It's not about the ideals of the flag. It's about letting go of the past, the kingdom of Lordaeron.
So why isn't the pvp symbol the lion of stormwind? As you said the ideals are the same. Except Stormwind is actually in the current Alliance while Lordaeron isn't. It's clinging to the past.

Simply because that portion of the crest doesn't have the Stormwind crest on it?

Here is the full crest of the Alliance for continuity -



As you can see each race is represented here with the Stormwind Lion in the center.

Crest of Humans -



Center shield has the Lordaeron Crest with a vertical hammer and the Stormwind Lion on the side of the head of the hammer. In game this entire crest wouldn't fit so it's modified.

[Night Wind]

Simply because that portion of the crest doesn't have the Stormwind crest on it?

Here is the full crest of the Alliance for continuity -



As you can see each race is represented here with the Stormwind Lion in the center.

Crest of Humans -



Center shield has the Lordaeron Crest with a vertical hammer and the Stormwind Lion on the side of the head of the hammer. In game this entire crest wouldn't fit so it's modified.

But the lion head by itself would fit perfectly. Why use a modified version of the human kingdom symbol when they could use a modified version of the Alliance crest?

[Rizendragon]

But the lion head by itself would fit perfectly. Why use a modified version of the human kingdom symbol when they could use a modified version of the Alliance crest?

Fuck it... I'm out... Reread the last 3 pages for your answer.

[Karrosene]

If she isn't too afraid and chose to flee.

Only a fool fights for a glorious death.