Legion - World Quests, Salvage Yard, Pruning, PvP, Legion Goals, Tracer Spotlight

[Eleccybubb]

Those world quests .... they look like Final Fantasy XIV ARR "FATES".

FATES are decent though. If they adopted a system similar to that or GW2's open world events would be cool.

[arcaneshot]

wait, what? Didn't a dev tell mages (in regards to them being the only class without a self heal) that it was okay, because mages were meant to avoid damage (and could conjure food, anyway)? What's this about mage survivability?

Mage survivability hasn't been a thing, ever.

[guardian_titan]

World quests look even worse after Blizzard explained them.
1.) Yay for being forced to do more fill the bar quests that offer nothing to advance the story but "go here and do this because I say so."
2.) Yay for being forced into a sardine can sized area with the rest of your server for a crappy reward (20-40 artifact power when ranks cost like 100-500 ... really? I have to suffer for potentially an hour fighting with others on my server for mobs for 20-40 artifact power?)
3.) Go to an area and do something only to get a reward that's less than what you went there to get to get the reward to begin with. Get 40 stormscales and get 30 as a reward? Wow. At least add some gold or something.
4.) Go to an area that's the size of a sardine can with potentially a handful of mobs that don't respawn fast enough for the number of players funneled into it for the chance at an item that could be mythic raid level.
5.) Order resources ... garrison resources 2.0.
6.) Killing a named mob for a decent chunk of gold. Hopefully it has a decent respawn rate and doesn't respawn once an hour. And hopefully it's open tap.
7.) Pet quests that award an uncommon stone ... which are effectively worthless since any real trainer would want the rare ones and just toss the uncommon ones. At least give some gold or give them a sell price so we can sell them to a vendor.

The quests might not be that bad. Maybe they'll be quick. But I'm reminded of Blizzard's idea of fun when it came to the Hallow's End dailies in Shadowmoon and the ones in Frostfire Ridge during Winter Veil. Shoving 50-200+ players into an area that's smaller than our garrison with mobs that don't respawn fast enough to support that number of players isn't fun. The size of the area should reflect the number of players intended to be there. If a quest has you kill 10 mobs and a named one while only being available for 12 hours and awards a piece of gear, it should not be in an area that's smaller than Trial of the Champions. If the quest only requires you kill a named mob, then that can be in an area the size of a level 1 garrison. If the quest requires you kill 10 mobs, free 5 prisoners, and kill 3 named mobs but lasts a week, then that can also be in a smaller area because players will eventually taper off as the week goes on.

Put another way: quest length and requirements should equal the size of the quest area.

Being shoved into a sardine can with 50-200+ players who are after the same reward I am isn't my idea of fun. Standing around twiddling my thumbs while hoping to snag a single spawn isn't fun. Spending an hour or more just to kill 10 mobs isn't fun. Standing around trying to do a crappy fill the bar when there's nothing to kill or even click due to crappy spawn rates and EVERYONE else on the server (and potentially more due to cross realm grouping) being there isn't fun.

With the "On Pruning, PvP, and Our Goals for Legion" post, Blizzard finally eludes to it being SPEC fantasy, not class fantasy, that they're going for.

Refocusing each spec around their core concepts

It's a bit late to retune the specs to have identities. I've played a shaman for nearly a decade now and now Blizzard's effectively telling me I've been playing wrong by taking away many abilities that were once base line. They back tracked on resurrection and wind shear, but still. The fact that they even ATTEMPTED it I find insulting. Make the specs more unique going forward. Stop giving class abilities and focus on spec ones, but don't take away what was base line just to make them spec specific for "spec fantasy". Change it going forward but don't screw over the veterans who don't want to lose an ability they love to a spec they hate ... or even to PvP.

I also find it incredibly stupid how Blizzard is handling artifacts, class talents, and PvP talents. Why the hell do PvPers have access to all three but PvEers get screwed out of the PvP talents? Why the hell are they taking away abilities like my earth shield and grounding totem which I use frequently in PvE and giving them solely to PvP? PvP talents should be more along the lines of increasing or decreasing damage, getting out of stuns, reducing the duration of stuns or damage taken while stunned, increasing healing, increasing movement speed when using an ability, etc. It shouldn't be full of abilities taken away from those who PvE just so PvP can have some fun toys. If most of the artifact talents are effectively 1% increases to something (boring crap talents), then why is PvP getting fun abilities for effectively every choice? The system is rigged in favor of the PvPers in Legion. Either both groups of players should have access to all abilities in both of their areas of play, or they should just be outright removed. Don't give one side a "toy" that both sides used to be able to enjoy. That's just insulting.

[Shudder]

As someone who hates questing are they going to be forcing us to do this? I just like to raid.

[anon5123]

Those world quests .... they look like Final Fantasy XIV ARR "FATES".

No, they look more like Bounties from Diablo 3.

Pretty cool, I guess, having random objectives around each zone.

[Sicnus]

World Quests: IMHO, are a missed opportunity to allow folks to really and truly explore and (re)visit different zones in Azeroth and Outlands/Draenor.

I think if they had REAL reasons and REAL (Current)loot to weekly go and visit random places around Azeroth and O/D then it'd be a heck of a lot more fun than having us do the same shit over and over in the same zones for 2 years. *sigh*

There are so many cool zones that people never get to see because we are always stuck in the "Current Lands" of an expansion.

Almost a good idea Blizzard, but you didn't quite make the mark.

[Elestia]

Thanks for the heads up on the overwatch beta...

[Deleted]

Always gotta complain about something...

I think world quests sound good so far. We were complaining that there wasn't enough to do outside of raids in WoD, so Blizzard are giving us outdoor quests that we can do at 110.

If they continue to add more quests and interesting rewards throughout the expansion, it's a good way to keep the playerbase active and give them an excuse to leave Dalaran other than for raids.

This, plus the new dungeon system, is a step in the right direction.

[Fincayra]

I wouldn't have a single complaint if it wasn't for the "everyone can see the same quests at once" thing. If every character had a cooldown with bonus rare events for that character specifically, or even just 10% of the server, would make everyone a LOT happier. Seeing something pop up on your map at the same time as 500 other people all fighting for 10 mobs does not sound like fun to me.

[Thrackerzod]

I don't understand why they don't just phase these events so everyone doesn't have to fight for mobs. That way you (and anyone in your party) get your own private little area instead of being squashed together with 100 other people waiting for respawns. Either that or stop making the quest areas so stupidly small, spread the mobs out around the zone. The winter veil daily quests were just terrible.

[Queen of Hamsters]

However, sometimes good feedback gets so bogged down in hyperbole that it’s hard for us to tell if the point you’re making is based on actual concerns and testing, or if you’ve just been misinformed. For example, one complaint we see a lot is that “classes only have 5 or 6 spells in Legion.” That’s simply not true – as of this post, most specs have between 20 and 25 baseline abilities, with talents, Honor talents, and your Artifact active skill adding up to 5-10 abilities on top of that (and yes, we recognize that not all of those skills will be useful in all situations).

And there the Hyperbole cirklejerk has it.

World Quests: IMHO, are a missed opportunity to allow folks to really and truly explore and (re)visit different zones in Azeroth and Outlands/Draenor.

I think if they had REAL reasons and REAL (Current)loot to weekly go and visit random places around Azeroth and O/D then it'd be a heck of a lot more fun than having us do the same shit over and over in the same zones for 2 years. *sigh*

There are so many cool zones that people never get to see because we are always stuck in the "Current Lands" of an expansion.

Almost a good idea Blizzard, but you didn't quite make the mark.

They're focusing on Legion, NEW content, but that doesn't mean they can't use this tech in other areas in the future...like in MoP with 5.3 taking place in the Barrens.

And if people want to see the old cool zones, they're free to go see them. Nothing's stopping anyone from doing anything if they only want it, this IS an mmorpg after all, so why do some of you people always need to be forced into certain activities and decisions?

- - - Updated - - -

Always gotta complain about something...

I think world quests sound good so far. We were complaining that there wasn't enough to do outside of raids in WoD, so Blizzard are giving us outdoor quests that we can do at 110.

If they continue to add more quests and interesting rewards throughout the expansion, it's a good way to keep the playerbase active and give them an excuse to leave Dalaran other than for raids.

This, plus the new dungeon system, is a step in the right direction.

Yep, and now people are bitching that "you're forced to do these activities, I just wanna PVP/Raid/Do Dungeons"...
There's simply no pleasing people.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand why they don't just phase these events so everyone doesn't have to fight for mobs. That way you (and anyone in your party) get your own private little area instead of being squashed together with 100 other people waiting for respawns. Either that or stop making the quest areas so stupidly small, spread the mobs out around the zone. The winter veil daily quests were just terrible.

Meanwhile, people complain far and wide about how the "MMO" of this game has gone away, and how no one ever has to interact with other players and so on and so forth...
Seeing other people, competing for resources/kills and all that jazz is a natural part of an mmorpg. Phasing should only be done to further a story and make meaningful changes to the world, not to let players play without competition.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Want to just do dungeons and raid? Pretty sure you'll still get to do that. They're even adding greater emphasis and replay value to dungeons themselves. The questing endgame is designed for people who prefer content outside of raids or dungeons, which actually, believe it or not, is the majority within World of Warcraft. I'm just happy they're not cramming it into a single zone they're funneling everyone into and that it's no longer heavily tied into a table.

Then you've got someone complaining that the Shaman they've learned to play over the years is "all wrong" -- well, it is. Get over it. This has been a long, long, long standing complaint that hit its height during Cataclysm. That is, the classes have been homogenized to the point of feeling basically the same with some visual differences. The refocusing on themes of each class and spec is the biggest draw for me concerning Legion. It's going to make playing alts and alternative specs a lot more fun and add longevity to the gameplay.

The only thing that made me raise a brow thus far for Legion is the return of the table(albeit much less substantial this time around) but outside of that, I'm honestly really excited for the changes. I mean... even PvP is getting a substantial revamp that will likely inject a great deal of life back into it. I've been done with PvP since WotLK and now I'm actually considering coming back to it.

[Deleted]

World quests look even worse after Blizzard explained them.
1.) Yay for being forced to do more fill the bar quests that offer nothing to advance the story but "go here and do this because I say so."
2.) Yay for being forced into a sardine can sized area with the rest of your server for a crappy reward (20-40 artifact power when ranks cost like 100-500 ... really? I have to suffer for potentially an hour fighting with others on my server for mobs for 20-40 artifact power?)
3.) Go to an area and do something only to get a reward that's less than what you went there to get to get the reward to begin with. Get 40 stormscales and get 30 as a reward? Wow. At least add some gold or something.
4.) Go to an area that's the size of a sardine can with potentially a handful of mobs that don't respawn fast enough for the number of players funneled into it for the chance at an item that could be mythic raid level.
5.) Order resources ... garrison resources 2.0.
6.) Killing a named mob for a decent chunk of gold. Hopefully it has a decent respawn rate and doesn't respawn once an hour. And hopefully it's open tap.
7.) Pet quests that award an uncommon stone ... which are effectively worthless since any real trainer would want the rare ones and just toss the uncommon ones. At least give some gold or give them a sell price so we can sell them to a vendor.

The quests might not be that bad. Maybe they'll be quick. But I'm reminded of Blizzard's idea of fun when it came to the Hallow's End dailies in Shadowmoon and the ones in Frostfire Ridge during Winter Veil. Shoving 50-200+ players into an area that's smaller than our garrison with mobs that don't respawn fast enough to support that number of players isn't fun. The size of the area should reflect the number of players intended to be there. If a quest has you kill 10 mobs and a named one while only being available for 12 hours and awards a piece of gear, it should not be in an area that's smaller than Trial of the Champions. If the quest only requires you kill a named mob, then that can be in an area the size of a level 1 garrison. If the quest requires you kill 10 mobs, free 5 prisoners, and kill 3 named mobs but lasts a week, then that can also be in a smaller area because players will eventually taper off as the week goes on.

Put another way: quest length and requirements should equal the size of the quest area.

Being shoved into a sardine can with 50-200+ players who are after the same reward I am isn't my idea of fun. Standing around twiddling my thumbs while hoping to snag a single spawn isn't fun. Spending an hour or more just to kill 10 mobs isn't fun. Standing around trying to do a crappy fill the bar when there's nothing to kill or even click due to crappy spawn rates and EVERYONE else on the server (and potentially more due to cross realm grouping) being there isn't fun.

With the "On Pruning, PvP, and Our Goals for Legion" post, Blizzard finally eludes to it being SPEC fantasy, not class fantasy, that they're going for.

Refocusing each spec around their core concepts

It's a bit late to retune the specs to have identities. I've played a shaman for nearly a decade now and now Blizzard's effectively telling me I've been playing wrong by taking away many abilities that were once base line. They back tracked on resurrection and wind shear, but still. The fact that they even ATTEMPTED it I find insulting. Make the specs more unique going forward. Stop giving class abilities and focus on spec ones, but don't take away what was base line just to make them spec specific for "spec fantasy". Change it going forward but don't screw over the veterans who don't want to lose an ability they love to a spec they hate ... or even to PvP.

I also find it incredibly stupid how Blizzard is handling artifacts, class talents, and PvP talents. Why the hell do PvPers have access to all three but PvEers get screwed out of the PvP talents? Why the hell are they taking away abilities like my earth shield and grounding totem which I use frequently in PvE and giving them solely to PvP? PvP talents should be more along the lines of increasing or decreasing damage, getting out of stuns, reducing the duration of stuns or damage taken while stunned, increasing healing, increasing movement speed when using an ability, etc. It shouldn't be full of abilities taken away from those who PvE just so PvP can have some fun toys. If most of the artifact talents are effectively 1% increases to something (boring crap talents), then why is PvP getting fun abilities for effectively every choice? The system is rigged in favor of the PvPers in Legion. Either both groups of players should have access to all abilities in both of their areas of play, or they should just be outright removed. Don't give one side a "toy" that both sides used to be able to enjoy. That's just insulting.

i think mob-tapping is supposed to be gone in Legion (didnt see it implemented yet though), in that case most of your points are invalid

This whole situation looks more like a scene from Star Wars 3 when everyone is applauding the rise of Emperor in the senate while democracy is dying...every fanboy is applauding these "world quests" while true meaning of "quest" is now just gone, they are putting a final nail into coffin od adventuring, Questing to 110 is the worst since ever, storyline its meh and shortest ever, like 2 hours for one zone (total joke, lowest number of "quests" ever as well) and now these world "quests"...they are not even quests, they are more precisely "bonus objectives".

It seems people dont even realize that we get nothing else besides these "world objectives". No reputation development, no nothing. You hit 110, max your artifact weapons and all shit around that (3-4 months tops), then you kill all shit in LFR and then you will be like..."yeah, been there, done that, now what?"

[angrys13]

In other news, Final Fantasy 14 Fate system implemented.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile, people complain far and wide about how the "MMO" of this game has gone away, and how no one ever has to interact with other players and so on and so forth...
Seeing other people, competing for resources/kills and all that jazz is a natural part of an mmorpg. Phasing should only be done to further a story and make meaningful changes to the world, not to let players play without competition.

WRONG. GW2 has personal resource nodes and LotRO has shared mob tagging. Both contribute to cooperative playing way more than WoW's outdated concept of nodes and mob tagging.

Especially if everyone and their mother are shoved into the same small area because an event is happening there and only there, this will only cause grief. And while these bonus objectives are quite nice, they cannot replace questing as we have had before - you know, this thing with a storyline which develops over time as you progress in your questline or in reputation.

Besides that, removing of skills or defining existing skills as PvP only is killing the RPG aspect of the game. STOP PRUNING you stupid, brainless devs! You already have a Diablo, a HotS and Overwatch incoming. You don't need a 4th game with less skilss than I have fingers...

[Fjordkeeper]

I may be the only one, but I am loving the ability pruning and the class theme refocusing that they are doing. I actually had a lot more fun with PvP back in the vanilla wow days when classes were very distinct and all had very glaring strengths and weaknesses, as well as generally having a lot fewer cooldowns to work with. The ability bloat and class homogenization that has been going on over the last 7 or so years has really taken something away from the feel and quality of the game, imo.

Glad to see Blizzard is finally realizing that and doing something about it. I just hope the inevitable whining from the playerbase doesn't cause them to backtrack on their vision here too much.

Completely agree. I'll praise the day classes finally return to individuality.

[ItachiZaku]

We’ve also gotten to the point where there’s entirely too many “get out of jail” cards in PvP. The Mage is in trouble… Ironbark. In trouble again… Nature’s Swiftness. Then Ice Block. Then another Ironbark. Then a trinket. Then Nature’s Swiftness. Then maybe, if you’re really good, you can get the Mage’s second Ice Block before Ironbark comes up again. He had to use Cold Snap, what an amazing play!

That's fine, if that many defensive CDs are used, that one character should be alive, and I'm ok with that. On the flip side, if they said "F it" and went offensive instead, that mage and druid should have had no problem killing whatever was after them. That's the counter, right? You're saying, hypothetically, that this mage was being trained and everything was thrown to save him and he survived long enough for all that shit to happen. So, that druid, no matter the spec, should also have been able to kill whatever was attacking. Bar none.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Besides that, removing of skills or defining existing skills as PvP only is killing the RPG aspect of the game. STOP PRUNING you stupid, brainless devs! You already have a Diablo, a HotS and Overwatch incoming. You don't need a 4th game with less skilss than I have fingers...

However, sometimes good feedback gets so bogged down in hyperbole that it’s hard for us to tell if the point you’re making is based on actual concerns and testing, or if you’ve just been misinformed. For example, one complaint we see a lot is that “classes only have 5 or 6 spells in Legion.” That’s simply not true – as of this post, most specs have between 20 and 25 baseline abilities, with talents, Honor talents, and your Artifact active skill adding up to 5-10 abilities on top of that (and yes, we recognize that not all of those skills will be useful in all situations).

Reading is hard yo. The only ones that are brainless and stupid, are the people cirklejerking around the prune.

[gutnbrg]

Do people really care about the salvage yard? Its literally useless, Ive had it for over a year and have gotten NOTHING useful from it. Only greens to vendor and the mage "transmog" set that looks like crap...

[GMZohar1]

Honestly, if you don't understand why its a good thing i dont think theres any amount of explaining that will change your mind. Its pretty straight forward.

Honestly, if you don't understand why its a good thing i dont think theres any amount of explaining that will change your mind. Its pretty straight forward.