Lets assume 15 dollars an hour happens

[alexw]

Is the GDP for the top quintile harmed? Yes, yes it is. Now, you are fine with that, because it helps other people. However that is still economically harmful, isn't it? Of course, you are fine with screwing over some people, all to help others. That may make you feel good inside, but you are still willfully screwing over others.

NO IT IS NOT. You clearly don't understand simple economic indicators. GDP is the total value of goods and services PRODUCED across the economy. GDP is not and does not describe in any way shape or form the income of individuals. Thus you cannot say anything whatsoever about the output from different groups withing society from the data I posted, merely that paying lower paid workers more increases the size of the economy faster than by increasing incomes for high paid workers.

So yet again I ask....

You said that raising the minimum wage is economically harmful. I said it isn't and provided data proving the exact opposite. Either show how the IMF is wrong or admit you are wrong.

[scaphism]

i came from the phillipines so hard work and getting paid low wages is the way of life. 40hr work week, sounds like too many hours off to me if you dont have skills to make more than min wage. get a 2nd job.

so your answer is that other places have it worse so why do we have to be better? because we can is the answer to that. I dont even feel we should give 15 per hour. I say we just tax companies out the ass for not taking care of their workers when they can. tax them something like 80% they can get a 50% reduction if any two of the following 3 conditions is met. (1) paygap is under 500% (2) 15 dollar minimum wage in their company. (3) provide full healthcare coverage and benefits for employees and their families.


I remember my grandfather explaining bonuses to me when I was a child and how the companies he worked for even just burger places would split up the proffits at the end of the month owner would take a lions share but then split up the remaining among the workers. I used to hear about a lot of companies that did that almost none do it today.

[Machismo]

NO IT IS NOT. You clearly don't understand simple economic indicators. GDP is the total value of goods and services PRODUCED across the economy. GDP is not and does not describe in any way shape or form the income of individuals. Thus you cannot say anything whatsoever about the output from different groups withing society from the data I posted, merely that paying lower paid workers more increases the size of the economy faster than by increasing incomes for high paid workers.

So yet again I ask....

You said that raising the minimum wage is economically harmful. I said it isn't and provided data proving the exact opposite. Either show how the IMF is wrong or admit you are wrong.

It is economically harmful, just look at the top quintile. And yes, it is wealth redistribution. The lower quintiles get more money, and they spend more money. Now, that's all fine and dandy, until you realize that the government is forcibly taking that money from people, how quaint. Wile you may be fine with that, it's nothing more than you thinking you know how to best spend someone else's money. Yes, increasing the minimum wage is wealth redisctribution, that's the entire fucking point of it. It's amazing that people will spend less money when you take it from them, or that people will spend more when you hand them more money... I'm shocked.

Of course, if it helps the economy so much, why bother stoping at $15 an hour, since that is clearly an arbitrary number? How much wealth redistribution would you be happy with?

[DesMephisto]

I've moved, and lived in at least 15 different states. The cost depends on how you live, and whether you're willing to think outside the box.

The cheapest way I found, is to move into an apartment, furnish it by shopping the rummage sales, and then hold a rummage sale to resell everything when you move. When moving, if it doesn't fit inside your vehicle, dump it.

If you absolutely can not part with your possessions, the next cheapest way is, instead of renting anything, buy a big enough truck or trailer to fit everything inside, and after moving and unpacking, sell the truck or trailer. If you bargain well, you might even make a profit upon resale.

Feel the need for some security? Work for a corporation that has locations all over the country, and will allow you to transfer to whatever state or city you want to go. I did that 3 times.

If you're seriously struggling, please give it some consideration. I personally know bartenders in Las Vegas who earn 6 figures.

Unfortunately, my wife got a PHD program here with stipend however were stuck here for 6 months without a job until then. She also needs to be here to work with the professor to start working on the project to have time for classes.

[Belize]

It is economically harmful, just look at the top quintile. And yes, it is wealth redistribution. The lower quintiles get more money, and they spend more money. Now, that's all fine and dandy, until you realize that the government is forcibly taking that money from people, how quaint. Wile you may be fine with that, it's nothing more than you thinking you know how to best spend someone else's money. Yes, increasing the minimum wage is wealth redisctribution, that's the entire fucking point of it. It's amazing that people will spend less money when you take it from them, or that people will spend more when you hand them more money... I'm shocked.

Of course, if it helps the economy so much, why bother stoping at $15 an hour, since that is clearly an arbitrary number? How much wealth redistribution would you be happy with?

Do you have any sort of source to back your claims?

[twiddler]

I also hold a bachelor degree in business management. And if you read my posts I said a begining 6G certified welder makes 17/hr at MY shop.

Well that's quite intriguing then. A business owner with your gratitude for employees? That's just strange. Doesn't matter if they're working at $10/hr mopping floors or using linear methods to optimize operations (e.g. the task at hand), lazy is the last thing to conclude unless obviously, their output is constrained by themselves. In the end, they're working and that really is all that matters.

Returning to interns, it really is a surprise that a business owner like yourself attempts to value their work in the instance of $20K a summer with little actual output all the while condescending on minimum wage labor. That's a lot like someone from STEM calling someone who majored in business lazy.

[wheresmywoft]

i came from the phillipines so hard work and getting paid low wages is the way of life. 40hr work week, sounds like too many hours off to me if you dont have skills to make more than min wage. get a 2nd job.

Do you think the US should have the same standard of living for the general population as the Phillipines?

[Nadiru]

Yep, I mostly eat near instant stuff myself for the time being. I either add milk, add water, microwave, or just open and eat. But also have a Foreman Grill for the occasional burger which is my version of a treat.

At the moment, I am budgeting $836 per month with $99 a month in EBT while me and doctors fighting the paper pushers at the VA.

There really isn't too many ways to stretch that. Figured out how to get internet, TV, and telephone for about $60 a month though with my internet effectively paying for that itself though.

The slow cooker sounds like an exceptional tool for your situation. You can buy cheap cuts of meat and slow cook them until they're tender enough to cut with a fork and there's basically zero prep involved; throw the meat in along with some water and some spices, turn the sucker on, and wait. If you want veg, get a SlapChop which can be used with one hand.

Depending on the specific injury you have clean-up could be minorly involved, but no more than one pot and the rinsing of a cutting board worth of clean-up.

[Annoying]

It is economically harmful, just look at the top quintile. And yes, it is wealth redistribution. The lower quintiles get more money, and they spend more money. Now, that's all fine and dandy, until you realize that the government is forcibly taking that money from people, how quaint. Wile you may be fine with that, it's nothing more than you thinking you know how to best spend someone else's money. Yes, increasing the minimum wage is wealth redisctribution, that's the entire fucking point of it. It's amazing that people will spend less money when you take it from them, or that people will spend more when you hand them more money... I'm shocked.

Of course, if it helps the economy so much, why bother stoping at $15 an hour, since that is clearly an arbitrary number? How much wealth redistribution would you be happy with?

In what way is the government forcibly taking money from people when minimum wage is raised? If you have $X right now and they raise the minimum wage, you still have $X.

The slow cooker sounds like an exceptional tool for your situation. You can buy cheap cuts of meat and slow cook them until they're tender enough to cut with a fork and there's basically zero prep involved; throw the meat in along with some water and some spices, turn the sucker on, and wait. If you want veg, get a SlapChop which can be used with one hand.

Depending on the specific injury you have clean-up could be minorly involved, but no more than one pot and the rinsing of a cutting board worth of clean-up.

Dude, slow cookers are absolutely amazing. Doesn't matter how tight your budget is, it's absolutely amazing. Chop up some veggies, throw in some meat, let it stew while you're busy with other things, come back and enjoy.

[Captain N]

The slow cooker sounds like an exceptional tool for your situation. You can buy cheap cuts of meat and slow cook them until they're tender enough to cut with a fork and there's basically zero prep involved; throw the meat in along with some water and some spices, turn the sucker on, and wait. If you want veg, get a SlapChop which can be used with one hand.

Depending on the specific injury you have clean-up could be minorly involved, but no more than one pot and the rinsing of a cutting board worth of clean-up.

Good call on the Slow-Cooker. You can find literally hundreds of recipes on Pinterest for it. Everything from Ranch Chicken Chili to a Pot Roast.

[wheresmywoft]

Dude, slow cookers are absolutely amazing. Doesn't matter how tight your budget is, it's absolutely amazing. Chop up some veggies, throw in some meat, let it stew while you're busy with other things, come back and enjoy.

Pressure cookers if you're in a rush. Something that normally takes 10 hrs in 40 minutes.

[alexw]

It is economically harmful, just look at the top quintile. And yes, it is wealth redistribution. The lower quintiles get more money, and they spend more money. Now, that's all fine and dandy, until you realize that the government is forcibly taking that money from people, how quaint. Wile you may be fine with that, it's nothing more than you thinking you know how to best spend someone else's money. Yes, increasing the minimum wage is wealth redisctribution, that's the entire fucking point of it. It's amazing that people will spend less money when you take it from them, or that people will spend more when you hand them more money... I'm shocked.

Of course, if it helps the economy so much, why bother stoping at $15 an hour, since that is clearly an arbitrary number? How much wealth redistribution would you be happy with?

OH God.......

I don't know how many times I have to say it or in how many ways I have to phrase it to get it through your thick skull - IT IS NOT ECONOMICALLY HARMFUL!!!!

The economy grows faster when the lower paid are paid more. It grows slower when the top are paid more. How on earth can it be harmful to have a faster growing economy!!!

If we took your lunatic arguments to their logical conclusion then it would be beneficial to have a 0% growth high inequality economy where the economy never grew again, over a 3% growth low inequality economy. That is how batshit insane your arguments are.

[belfpala]

But there's a clear decision to choose which is important to you, that's the point. People say they want things to be better, but their actions do not back it up. Instead, they want the government to do the hard stuff for them, so they don't have to put forth the effort.
.

Read about collective bargaining, hold out problems, and such.

- - - Updated - - -

OH God.......

I don't know how many times I have to say it or in how many ways I have to phrase it to get it through your thick skull - IT IS NOT ECONOMICALLY HARMFUL!!!!

The economy grows faster when the lower paid are paid more. It grows slower when the top are paid more. How on earth can it be harmful to have a faster growing economy!!!

If we took your lunatic arguments to their logical conclusion then it would be beneficial to have a 0% growth high inequality economy over a low 3% growth low inequality economy, that is how batshit insane your arguments are.

It's called percolate up economics, as opposed to the fantasy trickle down economics.

[Fugus]

The slow cooker sounds like an exceptional tool for your situation. You can buy cheap cuts of meat and slow cook them until they're tender enough to cut with a fork and there's basically zero prep involved; throw the meat in along with some water and some spices, turn the sucker on, and wait. If you want veg, get a SlapChop which can be used with one hand.

Depending on the specific injury you have clean-up could be minorly involved, but no more than one pot and the rinsing of a cutting board worth of clean-up.

Thanks for that, will try and look into it later.

[Machismo]

In what way is the government forcibly taking money from people when minimum wage is raised? If you have $X right now and they raise the minimum wage, you still have $X.



Dude, slow cookers are absolutely amazing. Doesn't matter how tight your budget is, it's absolutely amazing. Chop up some veggies, throw in some meat, let it stew while you're busy with other things, come back and enjoy.

"Give them this much money, or else..."

[Fugus]

"Give them this much money, or else..."

Sorry, but the abuses caused by the lack of a minimum wage far outweigh that. The absolute minimum any job is worth is the cost of supporting the people doing it.

And these are people who lack the power to negotiate for a fair wage themselves. These aren't positions where their name carries negotiating power or require so much training that the pool of applicants are limited.

Minimum wage laws will be required till which time we have a Universal Income or super strong unions for even basic entry level stuff. And that wage should be high enough to allow those doing it to live a decent life with a chance of improving themselves.

[Machismo]

Sorry, but the abuses caused by the lack of a minimum wage far outweigh that. The absolute minimum any job is worth is the cost of supporting the people doing it.

And these are people who lack the power to negotiate for a fair wage themselves. These aren't positions where their name carries negotiating power or require so much training that the pool of applicants are limited.

Minimum wage laws will be required till which time we have a Universal Income or super strong unions for even basic entry level stuff. And that wage should be high enough to allow those doing it to live a decent life with a chance of improving themselves.

They are not required, they are simply desired out of a sense of a desire for ease. Some countries have clearly shown they are capable of surviving without a minimum wage, which means it's not actually required.

[Fugus]

They are not required, they are simply desired out of a sense of a desire for ease. Some countries have clearly shown they are capable of surviving without a minimum wage, which means it's not actually required.

Those are countries with strong unions which the US lacks and are actively attacked in this nation by the companies and pro-corporate members in government.

Until that is fixed (which would take generations to fix) the minimum wage is still required in this nation.

It has nothing to do with a desire for ease, it has everything to do with the fact that this nations stances on unions over the past few generations where they have been attacked, vilified, and hobbled them has made it where that is not a viable solution.

Fix the issues with unions in this nation, then we can look into that route but don't put the cart before the horse.

[Annoying]

"Give them this much money, or else..."

You don't have to give them anything if you don't want to. As I said, if you have $X right now, you'll still be at $X when it raises. We already say "you have to pay your employees this much." Just the "this much" is changing, and no money suddenly goes away. Whether or not you choose to pay them more, or keep your money and close your business is up to you.

[Machismo]

Those are countries with strong unions which the US lacks and are actively attacked in this nation by the companies and pro-corporate members in government.

Until that is fixed (which would take generations to fix) the minimum wage is still required in this nation.

It has nothing to do with a desire for ease, it has everything to do with the fact that this nations stances on unions over the past few generations where they have been attacked, vilified, and hobbled them has made it where that is not a viable solution.

Fix the issues with unions in this nation, then we can look into that route but don't put the cart before the horse.

I think the issue with that lies far more with public-employee unions, since they are causing a lot of problems with the financial security of cities and states.