Affordable Care Act tore me up

[Tinykong]

If you want to be a dick, next year, let your utility bill run late so you get a shut off notice every month. You won't get them in the colder months.

[Felya]

how is this a counter argument? Also http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...are-plan-1993/

This site lists the mandate as part of a republican's bill. The half truth rating was due to not having majority republican support and not being identical. But, the mandate was in it:

Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate.

[zenkai]

This site lists the mandate as part of a republican's bill. The half truth rating was due to not having majority republican support and not being identical. But, the mandate was in it:

Lets say republicans had the exact same idea as Obamacare, I would say that is shit too. I swear it's pretty sad when you point out something shitty a democrat does and the replies you get is "well Republicans did it too" Same for Republicans! A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of what party supported. Fuck I hate partisan politics, this is why our country is going to shit and nothing ever gets done, both parties and it's followers have their heads shoved way up their ass

[Orbitus]

how is this a counter argument? Also http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...are-plan-1993/

That link doesn't refute what I said. I said the base plan was a Republican idea from the Heritage Foundation and that link says I was right. And in that link, you also have this link http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-health-excha/ That is from Obama saying that the Heritage Foundation is where he got his ideas. Thanks for proving my point though.

The Mandate, which is what people are bitching about, is the Heritage Foundation's idea.
Purchasing pools, which is the exchanges. Standard benefits, which is why everyone, including men, have to pay for pregnancy and childbirth parts of insurance. Instead of vouchers, they allowed the expansion of Medicaid. And then the whole not being denied for previous conditions. All of those are Republican ideas.

Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patien...008.E2.80.9310
Particularly this part:

After his inauguration, Obama announced to a joint session of Congress in February 2009 his intent to work with Congress to construct a plan for healthcare reform.[81][82] By July, a series of bills were approved by committees within the House of Representatives.[83] On the Senate side, from June to September, the Senate Finance Committee held a series of 31 meetings to develop a healthcare reform bill. This group — in particular, Democrats Max Baucus, Jeff Bingaman, and Kent Conrad, and Republicans Mike Enzi, Chuck Grassley, and Olympia Snowe — met for more than 60 hours, and the principles that they discussed, in conjunction with the other committees, became the foundation of the Senate's healthcare reform bill.[84][85][86]

With universal healthcare as one of the stated goals of the Obama administration, congressional Democrats and health policy experts like Jonathan Gruber and David Cutler argued that guaranteed issue would require both community rating and an individual mandate to ensure that adverse selection and/or "free riding" would not result in an insurance "death spiral";[87] they convinced Obama that this was necessary, and persuaded him to accept congressional proposals that included a mandate.[88] This approach was taken because the president and congressional leaders had concluded that more progressive plans, such as the (single-payer) Medicare for All act, could not obtain filibuster-proof support in the Senate. By deliberately drawing on bipartisan ideas — the same basic outline was supported by former Senate majority leaders Howard Baker, Bob Dole, Tom Daschle and George J. Mitchell—the bill's drafters hoped to increase the chances of garnering the necessary votes for passage.[89][90]

However, following the adoption of an individual mandate as a central component of the proposed reforms by Democrats, Republicans began to oppose the mandate and threatened to filibuster any bills that contained it.[60] Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, who led the Republican congressional strategy in responding to the bill, calculated that Republicans should not support the bill, and worked to keep party discipline and prevent defections:[91]

It was absolutely critical that everybody be together because if the proponents of the bill were able to say it was bipartisan, it tended to convey to the public that this is O.K., they must have figured it out.[92]

Republican Senators, including those who had supported previous bills with a similar mandate, began to describe the mandate as "unconstitutional". Journalist Ezra Klein wrote in The New Yorker that "the end result was ... a policy that once enjoyed broad support within the Republican Party suddenly faced unified opposition."[63] Reporter Michael Cooper of The New York Times wrote that: "It can be difficult to remember now, given the ferocity with which many Republicans assail it as an attack on freedom, but the provision in President Obama's healthcare law requiring all Americans to buy health insurance has its roots in conservative thinking."[62][69]
Tea Party protesters at the Taxpayer March on Washington, September 12, 2009

The reform negotiations also attracted a great deal of attention from lobbyists,[93] including deals between certain lobby groups and the advocates of the law to win the support of groups that had opposed past reforms, as in 1993.[94][95] The Sunlight Foundation documented many of the reported ties between "the healthcare lobbyist complex" and politicians in both major parties.[96]

During the August 2009 summer congressional recess, many members went back to their districts and entertained town hall meetings to solicit public opinion on the proposals. Over the recess, the Tea Party movement organized protests and many conservative groups and individuals targeted congressional town hall meetings to voice their opposition to the proposed reform bills.[82] There were also many threats made against members of Congress over the course of the Congressional debate.[97][98]

To maintain the progress of the legislative process, when Congress returned from recess, in September 2009 President Obama delivered a speech to a joint session of Congress supporting the ongoing Congressional negotiations, to re-emphasize his commitment to reform and again outline his proposals.[99] He acknowledged the polarization of the debate, and quoted a letter from the late Senator Edward "Ted" Kennedy urging on reform: "what we face is above all a moral issue; that at stake are not just the details of policy, but fundamental principles of social justice and the character of our country."[100] On November 7, the House of Representatives passed the Affordable Health Care for America Act on a 220–215 vote and forwarded it to the Senate for passage.[82]

To say that the Republicans didn't have any say in the ACA is COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED.

[BuckSparkles]

your ignorance is showing again. because clearly all those people who work 2-3 jobs and can barely afford rent and other living expenses are just too fucking lazy.

I have to agree. If you are working 2-3 jobs and can't afford rent, you are doing something very wrong, and also not using money in the wisest of ways.

[Orbitus]

Lets say republicans had the exact same idea as Obamacare, I would say that is shit too. I swear it's pretty sad when you point out something shitty a democrat does and the replies you get is "well Republicans did it too" Same for Republicans! A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of what party supported. Fuck I hate partisan politics, this is why our country is going to shit and nothing ever gets done, both parties and it's followers have their heads shoved way up their ass

We are just pointing out that you are wrong. You said it had nothing to do with Republicans. And both Felya and I just showed you that you are wrong.

[Ragedaug]

Lets say republicans had the exact same idea as Obamacare, I would say that is shit too. I swear it's pretty sad when you point out something shitty a democrat does and the replies you get is "well Republicans did it too" Same for Republicans! A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of what party supported. Fuck I hate partisan politics, this is why our country is going to shit and nothing ever gets done, both parties and it's followers have their heads shoved way up their ass

Couldn't agree more. Most of the problems in the U.S. all start with this. Partisan politics. Both sides quick to blame everything on the other party and excuse everything from their party. Meanwhile neither side is being held accountable for anything, and both sides are completely corrupt.

I HATE seeing a counter argument saying "well, the other side did it first". Holy crap - put them both/all in jail. It's not that difficult of a concept to figure out. Right and wrong doesn't start with the letter (D or R) that shows up after your name.

[Deleted]

Ugh...all this talk is making me quite nervous as I'm moving back to the states. Right now I pay about the equivalent of 90 USD a month for 2 insurances that cover most medicines..all doctors visits, procedures, dental, even vision care tho there is a long...long wait for that. I've had 2 heart attacks and have a genetic blood clotting disorder, which while easily managable with a pill a day, is something I need monitored every so often to make sure the clotting factor levels are where they should be.

I have no idea what any of that will cost me even with insurance, and that's assuming I get to work where my friend does, where you get some company insurance that cost about 200 a month, and doesn't cover full dental, or vision, those cost an extra 20 a month..and doesn't pay for everything either.

So I'll end up paying double and getting a lot less mileage out of it then what I get currently. That's honestly really fucking terrifying.

It's a shame when you're less worried about how you'll survive some medical issues physically rather then financially.

[Ragedaug]

We are just pointing out that you are wrong. You said it had nothing to do with Republicans. And both Felya and I just showed you that you are wrong.

Except that he didn't say that at all. He said, if it was wrong with the Republican's did it, it's wrong with the Dems did it. Conversely, you can't say, "what the Dems did isn't wrong, 'cause the Reps did it first".

[oxymoronic]

I think the bigger issue here is that someone making 150k after taxes, cannot afford dental care. What the heck do you do with your money?

monopoly money doesnt count. some people tend to lie on the internet,...

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Ugh...all this talk is making me quite nervous as I'm moving back to the states. Right now I pay about the equivalent of 90 USD a month for 2 insurances that cover most medicines..all doctors visits, procedures, dental, even vision care tho there is a long...long wait for that. I've had 2 heart attacks and have a genetic blood clotting disorder, which while easily managable with a pill a day, is something I need monitored every so often to make sure the clotting factor levels are where they should be.

I have no idea what any of that will cost me even with insurance, and that's assuming I get to work where my friend does, where you get some company insurance that cost about 200 a month, and doesn't cover full dental, or vision, those cost an extra 20 a month..and doesn't pay for everything either.

So I'll end up paying double and getting a lot less mileage out of it then what I get currently. That's honestly really fucking terrifying.

It's a shame when you're less worried about how you'll survive some medical issues physically rather then financially.

bring lube/

[Deleted]

monopoly money doesnt count. some people tend to lie on the internet,...

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bring lube/

>.< How cheerful of you to say that :P

[Ayaz2810]

>.< How cheerful of you to say that :P

Read my post a couple pages back if you wanna see the reality of the American insurance industry.

[Deleted]

Read my post a couple pages back if you wanna see the reality of the American insurance industry.

I've read most of the thread and tbh, that's why I made my post, it's truly frightening, it's something I kinda took for granted where I'm at now.

[Rukh]

The whole concept was shit from the start. What exactly did Republicans do that ruined Obamacare? Not one damn thing

The only reason "Obamacare" was proposed is there's no way universal healthcare would get through congress so it was a stopgap measure that helped some people that needed the most urgent help. A big part of "Obamacare" was the public option which Republicans flipped their shit over. The revisionist idea that Republicans just sat on their thumbs and didn't say anything is pretty hilarious.

[Felya]

Lets say republicans had the exact same idea as Obamacare, I would say that is shit too. I swear it's pretty sad when you point out something shitty a democrat does and the replies you get is "well Republicans did it too" Same for Republicans! A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of what party supported. Fuck I hate partisan politics, this is why our country is going to shit and nothing ever gets done, both parties and it's followers have their heads shoved way up their ass

This has nothing to do with 'they did it too', it's a reply to republican's having no hand in the deal. The only thing partison here, is your change from republican's had nothing to do with it, to it turning partison when showing the contrary.

[Ayaz2810]

I've read most of the thread and tbh, that's why I made my post, it's truly frightening, it's something I kinda took for granted where I'm at now.

I've always wondered what it must be like to be able to go into a hospital, get treated, and know that there will be no life crushing debt associated with it. That's a real fear a lot of us have every day. The relief you guys who have national health care should definitely appreciate it!

[alexw]

Ugh...all this talk is making me quite nervous as I'm moving back to the states. Right now I pay about the equivalent of 90 USD a month for 2 insurances that cover most medicines..all doctors visits, procedures, dental, even vision care tho there is a long...long wait for that. I've had 2 heart attacks and have a genetic blood clotting disorder, which while easily managable with a pill a day, is something I need monitored every so often to make sure the clotting factor levels are where they should be.

I have no idea what any of that will cost me even with insurance, and that's assuming I get to work where my friend does, where you get some company insurance that cost about 200 a month, and doesn't cover full dental, or vision, those cost an extra 20 a month..and doesn't pay for everything either.

So I'll end up paying double and getting a lot less mileage out of it then what I get currently. That's honestly really fucking terrifying.

It's a shame when you're less worried about how you'll survive some medical issues physically rather then financially.

You are going to be screwed up the wazoo I think given your medical history. Which country are you in now and can you not stay there? Unless you have a high income or have good employer coverage you are likely going to be worse off moving back.

[Felya]

Couldn't agree more. Most of the problems in the U.S. all start with this. Partisan politics. Both sides quick to blame everything on the other party and excuse everything from their party. Meanwhile neither side is being held accountable for anything, and both sides are completely corrupt.

I HATE seeing a counter argument saying "well, the other side did it first". Holy crap - put them both/all in jail. It's not that difficult of a concept to figure out. Right and wrong doesn't start with the letter (D or R) that shows up after your name.

The issue here being not that the other side does it too, but protecting one side from culpability in the issue. The person you are responding to claimed republican's had nothing to do with it and is only going with 'other side doing it too' nonsense as a defense of his wrong responses. Showing this was republican plan is not saying they do it too, but to show that the idea of republicans not having anything to do with it is wrong. Saying republican's had nothing to do with it, is partison. Showing it was a compromise beyond republican rhetoric, is not the same as 'they do it too'.

[Acidbaron]

Ah corporate managed health care industry horror stories and people still keep most of them out of their cross airs and focuses on politicians.

So glad the mistake of fully privatizing healthcare is something that never really gets far here.

[Luxxor]

The fine needs to much higher so this nonsense will stop.

Make it as high as you want. 10K, hell lets just say 50% of taxable income. Its not going to matter, the legislation has NO teeth. I dont know how many times I have to say it, unless you get a tax return they CANNOT force you to pay it.

I dare anyone to prove me wrong but its not going to happen.

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You probably won't get audited, because Republicans have taken all the teeth out of the IRS, but it would be rather funny if you did, since the fines would be just as bad as a catastrophic health bill.

Do tell me how that works Batman. Clueless.