Now I know why D3 influences WoW so much.

[jackofwind]

If it's all the same then why not many people dare to play HC? No balls no skill.

Or you're just really really trying to convince everyone who doesn't care that somehow you're really good at Diablo because you play HC.

The actual difficulties between the two modes are identical, one just punishes you more for dying. Your example about the dancing game is totally wrong, and probably intentionally so.

A more accurate example would be two players achieving 1000 points on the same 2-minute song, but one player having a loaded gun to their head during the process. Does that increase their stress? Sure, for obvious reasons. Does it make the actual game difficulty harder? No, and a child could tell you that.

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Make games that are fun to play. D&D and Magic have been around for decades. Diablo defined adventure games on PC. WoW defined MMO's. I would even argue, that even now, Heroes is defining MOBA's.

HotS is doing nothing even close to defining MOBAs. It's a niche game with a vastly smaller market than DOTA and LoL. Fanboys be fanboying.

[Coldkil]

I'm pretty sure it was Dota, and then League who already Definded MOBA's.....Heroes has just followed the popularity of that Genre....it's a wonderful game, but it's not exactly a "defining" title.

And Dota was a WC3 mod, soit started from an RTS

[Tjaeden]

HotS is doing nothing even close to defining MOBAs. It's a niche game with a vastly smaller market than DOTA and LoL. Fanboys be fanboying.

More map types, more objective types, more hero types - what other Moba has anything like Cho'gall?

I guess I'll fanboy all over the place, if it means playing good, fun games.

Who kicked your puppy? Metzen?

[McLovenIt]

And Dota was a WC3 mod, soit started from an RTS

touche, I always forget about that. I usually played the Tower Defense games in WC3........man I miss those days!!!

Really hope they make a Warcraft IV at some point in the future

[jackofwind]

More map types, more objective types, more hero types - what other Moba has anything like Cho'gall?

I guess I'll fanboy all over the place, if it means playing good, fun games.

Who kicked your puppy? Metzen?

Map types, game types, and hero types do not make a game define the MOBA genre. You can have fun playing it, sure, but that doesnt make it define the genre. SMITE has different heroes and it's a 3D game, but that doesn't mean its genre defining. Diablo 2 was genre defining, and even though Titan Quest added more things in terms of class building etc. it's not considered genre defining.

The genre is defined and established very clearly by LoL and DOTA. Until HoTS moves past those two games in terms of its ongoing effect on the global MOBA scene it will not begin to define the genre, and that's unlikely to happen as long as they're being updated.

You're mistaking the difference between a game being enjoyable and a game being genre defining.

[Eroginous]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

If they added new areas every 3-6 months, with a new dungeon, type of loot generator, ect, improvements to the cube, loot itemization, ect, that would be worth paying for, imo.

[Kokolums]

I admit I am no game designer, but I sure as hell am a long time player. Point 4 and 5 are serious? Like SERIOUS? Would you suggest that as a levelling process in D3 or also in WoW?

I sure hope that system is a big fat warning on the box. Would make me skip that game 100%.

Ideally, what gamers want is content that is pretty easy to beat with a huge dev team cranking out new content every couple of months. That's not realistic though, so you if you want content that lasts, it must come in the form of grinds or big risks where you can lose.

But if you hate leveling, then I also question why you are playing Diablo in the first place.

[Tackhisis]

It is not D3 specifically, it is just elements of action combat which were adopted by all modern MMOs.

[Kazgrel]

Yeah the biggest problem is WoW does not take the main, biggest and most needed thing AKA freedom to do things when you want and as much as you want.

While in Diablo and any other ARPG game I can run content as much as I want, in WoW I have artificial gating everywhere. Got your 4k valor this week? So sad too bad, no mythic dungeons for you on this week anymore. Killed a boss in a raid? No reason to kill him again on this week. Got your 10 arena wins this week? Well son, if you want arena matches, come back in a week. That fucking caps and artificial limitations are idiotic, no wonders people cancel subs in droves.

Those "caps" have existed in some form since vanilla. Whether it's for the reason of artificially extending content, or to prevent players from burning themselves out, that's another story.

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Because they're different games, which means when I want D3 gameplay I play D3. That doesn't mean I want D3 gameplay in WoW, because I play WoW for WoW gameplay

Well given what WoW gameplay became in WoD, it's been in need of a serious shakeup.

[thilicen]

Because Jay fucking Wilson is in WoW team now, along with other major influences from Diablo, such as Yang.

He's not though. And the stuff they put in from Diablo was there AFTER Jay left and his reign of complete destruction ended.

[Caelia]

Yeah, some features are pretty solid.

However D3 suffers from a ver low long-term player retention; most players jump in for new patch/season and leave after a short time since it doesn't take much to get stuff done. Heavy paragon farming and high GR pushing is appealing for only a fraction of the playerbase.

What D3 needs atm is some sort of long-term goal to keep people in also when they're done with the season journey and/or they're not interested in leaderboards.

Old post but yea, agree 100%, I tend to come back for each season and play until paragon 500-600 which takes less than a week and then I'm gone until next season since I'm already bored of the same old gameplay, pushing Grifts gives me no satisfaction what so ever.

[mireigi]

Yeah the biggest problem is WoW does not take the main, biggest and most needed thing AKA freedom to do things when you want and as much as you want.

While in Diablo and any other ARPG game I can run content as much as I want, in WoW I have artificial gating everywhere. Got your 4k valor this week? So sad too bad, no mythic dungeons for you on this week anymore. Killed a boss in a raid? No reason to kill him again on this week. Got your 10 arena wins this week? Well son, if you want arena matches, come back in a week. That fucking caps and artificial limitations are idiotic, no wonders people cancel subs in droves.

I agree whole-heartedly on this.

While I believe there needs to be a limit to how often you can get loot from killing the same boss over and over (eg. raid lockouts), I must confess that I dislike Daily quests with a passion. I am an avid gamer. It is not uncommon for me to sit down for 10 hours doing a Saturday, and play whatever game floats my boat. Therefore I should be able to do whatever I want with that time, in the game of my choice. If I want to spend those 10 hours farming reputation, then I want to do that (anyone remember farming Timbermaw in Felwood?), but instead I am, as you put it, gated behind Daily quests, which means that after 2 hours of questing, I cannot get any more reputation with any faction.

[kencloudli]

I agree whole-heartedly on this.

While I believe there needs to be a limit to how often you can get loot from killing the same boss over and over (eg. raid lockouts), I must confess that I dislike Daily quests with a passion. I am an avid gamer. It is not uncommon for me to sit down for 10 hours doing a Saturday, and play whatever game floats my boat. Therefore I should be able to do whatever I want with that time, in the game of my choice. If I want to spend those 10 hours farming reputation, then I want to do that (anyone remember farming Timbermaw in Felwood?), but instead I am, as you put it, gated behind Daily quests, which means that after 2 hours of questing, I cannot get any more reputation with any faction.

Agree. I'm not an avid gamer and only play a couple of hours, but I think there should be options to do stuff whatever I want, like in Diablo 3.

[hulkgor]

Diablo 3 is the game with the lowest longevity in the fucking world, with people playing it 1-2 weeks at most twice a year, or something like that...

Something is very, very wrong with that game, and i hope they keep most of its failed, uninteresting features out of wow.

[Coldkil]

Old post but yea, agree 100%, I tend to come back for each season and play until paragon 500-600 which takes less than a week and then I'm gone until next season since I'm already bored of the same old gameplay, pushing Grifts gives me no satisfaction what so ever.

Personally speaking, i'm in the same situation - it's just that i find season journey fun, while GRs are just a way to pad more paragon so you can beat higher levels, rinse and repeat. It works well for leaderboards but as i said only few people are actually interested in them (multiple reasons behind).

So apart the few keeping pushing over and over the rest just joins for a little while then leaves, making the chance to not return higher every time especially when patches are mostly tailored around balancing (which are more than needed, but people want new stuff to do basically).

[Zeliwat]

WOW has changed gaming in general, not just MMOs. Its a winning formula and it makes sense they use some of their strong points in other games.. the fact that D3 has no sub fee is by far the biggest factor for me. I play with my friends and quit mid season after getting all the achievements and come back for the next one. WOW sub fee makes me feel like i'm commited.. not gonna pay those 15$/mo if I don't have the time to play through all the expansion.

[melodramocracy]

Yeah the biggest problem is WoW does not take the main, biggest and most needed thing AKA freedom to do things when you want and as much as you want.

While in Diablo and any other ARPG game I can run content as much as I want, in WoW I have artificial gating everywhere. Got your 4k valor this week? So sad too bad, no mythic dungeons for you on this week anymore. Killed a boss in a raid? No reason to kill him again on this week. Got your 10 arena wins this week? Well son, if you want arena matches, come back in a week. That fucking caps and artificial limitations are idiotic, no wonders people cancel subs in droves.

What you're forgetting is that D3 is, at its heart, a single player game. WoW is not. Thus, D3 has a lot more freedom from a design point of view (class balance being a non-issue for one, gating being a non issue for another as you state).

I'd even argue that D3 certainly does have its own built in gating due to RNG, but really the only limiter here is how much the person playing the game enjoys the repetition factor. Fairly early on in this game, you realize that you're simply gearing up to do the same exact content faster, so you can move the diff slider up, to just repeat the whole process.

MMO's have to serve the idea that the world needs to be fairly populated, enough so that grouping can be accomplished reasonably. Removing gating would allow people to simply blow through raids in a matter of days or even hours once they were on farm status, and simply never bother to go back until the next batch of content. Not an optimal game population scenario.

Me personally... I have a few hundred hours in D3, and did enjoy the game... but outside of seeing what new environments are put in the game with patches, I simply never have a desire to play it. I've effectively seen all it has to offer, and chasing gear isn't going to change that.

[soulzek]

Diablo 3 is one of the best games ever made. It simply has terrible (or none) incentive design and endgame goals. It really could have replaced WoW as the supreme online RPG if Blizzard really tried.

[Kokolums]

...and then you login to D2 and ask yourself why you would ever login to D3.

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What you're forgetting is that D3 is, at its heart, a single player game.

That is SACRILEGE. Diablo 2 was an incredible multiplayer game. That's just spitting on the grave of the Diablo franchise to say D3 is a single player game. Yuk.

[Rafoel]

Please not another "I don't like MMORPG genre so instead of moving on to another game I will whine until this MMORPG looks like Hack&slash".