Low wage work is highly valuable for young people

[Malachi256]

Some of the most formative years of my life were mid-late high school when I worked at a minimum wage retail job. I learned and developed multiple skills at this job that I use to this day in my living-wage career, I got to know co-workers who were very different from my peer group at school, I grew in my maturity and confidence, I had my first serious relationship, I earned enough money to pay for car insurance/maintenance for my hand-me-down "A to B" car plus some spending money (which allowed me to be more independent, again helping me to mature, live life), etc etc.

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that the minimum wage goes up considerably in the coming years - the 15 $/hr goal that many are shooting for, for example.

I've heard this argument from multiple opponents of the min wage increase that it will prevent many young people from getting jobs - this makes sense to me. So I guess here are my questions/thoughts:

1. Will it really reduce the number of jobs available to young people? This seems like a no-brainer, but I guess I'll leave the option open for debate...
2. Is this an acceptable cost that is outweighed by the benefits of having other people (adults, assumedly) able to earn a living wage (or closer to a living wage)?
3. Would it be possible to account for this situation by creating a law that allowed employers to hire young people for less than the minimum wage? Would a law like this have the desired effect or would it just undermine the minimum wage laws too much?
4. Other thoughts?

[Independent voter]

Immigrants too.

When you see videos of immigrants in Sweden they aren't doing anything, it's because trade unions in Sweden won't let them work for a reasonable wage and nobody wants to employ unskilled labor for $15 an hour or whatever the wage is.

[taliey]

No one is making the argument that young people (high school age that is) shouldn't be working, but that it's the compensation that they're receiving.

I'd argue that the benefits and costs of wages aren't as fixed as some would imply. An increase in compensation would lead to increased productivity (you tend to work better when your compensation covers your living cost adequately with some disposable income), decreased turnover (a good deal is hard to walk away from) and importantly, improved worker morale (which also increases productivity).

That's 3 benefits of minimum wage increases that I can think off the top of my head.

[Berengil]

Weird. Lots of kids had jobs in high school after turning 16, but my parents wouldn't let me for awhile. Study x 612381212711237123646362 was their message to me.

On-topic: Minimum wage should be just that: the minimum. Someone will still have to do the job. Automation? Not in customer facing jobs, at least not all of them. lots of people respond negatively to having to deal with a machine. i can't tell you how many times I've been to the nearest walmart and seen lines nearly a dozen deep, with all the self-checkouts empty.

[Celista]

Low wage work sucks complete ass, I started waiting tables as soon as possible and I was much better off for it. People seem to think that doing work for shit pay builds character and/or that the pay is proportional to the effort one puts in for that type of work; news flash I didn't work less hard in retail than I do in my current job. That requires a professional degree and a license to practice.

Thank God I am older and have my degrees now so I very likely won't have to do shit work like retail ever again.

[taliey]

Low wage work sucks complete ass, I started waiting tables as soon as possible and I was much better off for it. People seem to think that doing work for shit pay builds character and/or that the pay is proportional to the effort one puts in for that type of work; news flash I didn't work less hard in retail than I do in my current job. That requires a professional degree and a license to practice.

Thank God I am older and have my degrees now so I very likely won't have to do shit work like retail ever again.

It's called the just world hypothesis.

[Captainn]

Most if not all small businesses would be put on a different time table. They wouldn't just make them go to 15. If anything, small business would probably have a decade to adjust. In 2006ish when PA raised its minimum wage to 7.25, my employer didn't have to raise to that level for two full years. And that was barely a two dollar increase. Imagine doubling that?

[alexw]

Some of the most formative years of my life were mid-late high school when I worked at a minimum wage retail job. I learned and developed multiple skills at this job that I use to this day in my living-wage career, I got to know co-workers who were very different from my peer group at school, I grew in my maturity and confidence, I had my first serious relationship, I earned enough money to pay for car insurance/maintenance for my hand-me-down "A to B" car plus some spending money (which allowed me to be more independent, again helping me to mature, live life), etc etc.

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that the minimum wage goes up considerably in the coming years - the 15 $/hr goal that many are shooting for, for example.

I've heard this argument from multiple opponents of the min wage increase that it will prevent many young people from getting jobs - this makes sense to me. So I guess here are my questions/thoughts:

1. Will it really reduce the number of jobs available to young people? This seems like a no-brainer, but I guess I'll leave the option open for debate...
2. Is this an acceptable cost that is outweighed by the benefits of having other people (adults, assumedly) able to earn a living wage (or closer to a living wage)?
3. Would it be possible to account for this situation by creating a law that allowed employers to hire young people for less than the minimum wage? Would a law like this have the desired effect or would it just undermine the minimum wage laws too much?
4. Other thoughts?

1. No, that's a daft assumption to make. If it were true then Australia would have sky-high youth unemployment vs the US, and that is simply not true. Moreover higher wages = higher demand = higher employment.
2. Since 1. is wrong then 2. doesn't make sense.
3. Again 3. does not make sense since 1. is wrong.
4. Don't make assumptions then argue from an assumption unless you have unassailable proof that that assumption is correct.

[Celista]

It's called the just world hypothesis.

Beyond being a logical fallacy, it's such an arrogant POV...

Honestly (and I've been working since the age of 14 and put myself through college and graduate school), low-wage work is a waste of time for teens, that is an age they should be focusing on their studies. Summer work? Sure. But low-wage work is really not much more than a motivator for one to complete their education so they won't have to die from boredom while also struggling to pay the bills, should they have to pay their own bills with low-wage work as they transition to adulthood.

[Gheld]

If we just let businesses pay their employees less they will have more money left over to pay their employees more. Then economics and then everybody will be happy and have a unicorn.

[Blueobelisk]

OP I've heard your argument somewhere before. I can't place it though....

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Beyond being a logical fallacy, it's such an arrogant POV...

Honestly (and I've been working since the age of 14 and put myself through college and graduate school), low-wage work is a waste of time for teens, that is an age they should be focusing on their studies. Summer work? Sure. But low-wage work is really not much more than a motivator for one to complete their education so they won't have to die from boredom while also struggling to pay the bills, should they have to pay their own bills with low-wage work as they transition to adulthood.

An endless circle that won't go stop until things change.

[Sunseeker]

Want to teach kids good skill and pay them little to nothing? I have no problem with that....as long as you are not likewise asking them to support themselves and pay for an education at the same time. You can't expect people with little to no income to buy their way into a better life.

[Ave07]

OP I've heard your argument somewhere before. I can't place it though....

It's as if we had a thread about this before.