Suramar and epic story telling over lore

[DesMephisto]

As if there aren't enough ways to get rewards in in the game... Can't we just have a fun zone with a nice story that DOESN'T cram gear down our faces just to get people to do it? Suramar is a place to go and enjoy a nice story and have fun, can't we just have one zone like this?

No. Because that is incredibly dumb. Its counter to every single point video games hold evident.

[Aeula]

The zone probably isn't done yet.

[DesMephisto]

I don't know why you would care, I just know why you should care...

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I, for one, can't wait to start Suramar.

Which is why? He's just a person. He doesn't work for blizzard. His opinion to me is as valid as the voices in my head.

[Musta]

Don't speak sense here you will be spotted and taken in for re education :O

They are watching us.

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Which is why? He's just a person. He doesn't work for blizzard. His opinion to me is as valid as the voices in my head.

Well, you should prolly talk to them then, because you are not posting anything worth reading for other humans.

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Then you are playing the wrong game, lore has always been one main motors of Warcraft universe.

CoD -----> that way.

I like this guy ^

[DesMephisto]

They are watching us.

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Well, you should prolly talk to them then, because you are not posting anything worth reading for other humans.

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I like this guy ^

Explain how I'm not posting a valid topic. I love RPG's have been playing them since I was a very young child. I love lore, but I need a reason to enrich myself in said lore. Lore for the sake of lore is pointless.

[Thage]

Explain how I'm not posting a valid topic. I love RPG's have been playing them since I was a very young child. I love lore, but I need a reason to enrich myself in said lore. Lore for the sake of lore is pointless.

You spelled "world-building" wrong. Story for the sake of story is what builds the world up, and it's something WoW has desperately missed in WoD. Suramar can be thought of as the next logical step from the Lorewalker reputation and lore objects scattered around Pandaria: rather than going around finding the story through relics and scrolls, the story unfolds in front of you, and Suramar is apparently the lynchpin that ties the disparate stories from the leveling zones together by finishing their overarching storyline and segueing us into the raid storylines and patch content, coupled with our class and artifact storylines.

You might not care about story for the sake of story. People who actually played RPGs for the RPG mechanics rather than the game mechanics are bound to disagree, as immersing oneself in a world and its story is the core intent of an RPG rather than, say, an action-adventure game with RPG elements.

[Musta]

Explain how I'm not posting a valid topic. I love RPG's have been playing them since I was a very young child. I love lore, but I need a reason to enrich myself in said lore. Lore for the sake of lore is pointless.

Okay. Let me just me ask you one question: Do you need a reason to read a book? Other than... hmm want to? Its the same thing.

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Books are lore for the sake of lore. Theres no loot in books.

[DesMephisto]

Okay. Let me just me ask you one question: Do you need a reason to read a book? Other than... hmm want to? Its the same thing.

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Books are lore for the sake of lore. Theres no loot in books.

I don't read.

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You spelled "world-building" wrong. Story for the sake of story is what builds the world up, and it's something WoW has desperately missed in WoD. Suramar can be thought of as the next logical step from the Lorewalker reputation and lore objects scattered around Pandaria: rather than going around finding the story through relics and scrolls, the story unfolds in front of you, and Suramar is apparently the lynchpin that ties the disparate stories from the leveling zones together by finishing their overarching storyline and segueing us into the raid storylines and patch content, coupled with our class and artifact storylines.

You might not care about story for the sake of story. People who actually played RPGs for the RPG mechanics rather than the game mechanics are bound to disagree, as immersing oneself in a world and its story is the core intent of an RPG rather than, say, an action-adventure game with RPG elements.

You can build the world without wasting time. How many people even read quests? I did loremaster without reading more than 5% of the quests.

[Torgent]

You know that rewards are also important for every good RPG right?

If the rewards given aren't relevant to you....then....DONT. FUCKING.DO.IT. The rest of us who wish to enjoy the lore and to grab the rewards offered will play this zone and enjoy it.

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Explain how I'm not posting a valid topic. I love RPG's have been playing them since I was a very young child. I love lore, but I need a reason to enrich myself in said lore. Lore for the sake of lore is pointless.

Lore for the sake of lore is pointless? Are movies pointless? You don't get rewarded from them. They are all lore. Everything that happens in a movie is part of the story, they don't give you a reward at the end.

[Thage]

You can build the world without wasting time. How many people even read quests? I did loremaster without reading more than 5% of the quests.

I imagine more than you seem to think. Enough so that there are popular addons like Storyteller designed just to improve the quest text UI into something more akin to BioWare's iconic dialogue cutscenes. This is one of the biggest problems with this game's community--egocentric people who refuse to understand "I don't want" and "It is a waste" are not synonymous. You are free to not do Suramar just like you were free to not do Lorewalkers.

[Servasus]

War also always creates lore for historians. Prove me wrong.

LOL. OP got curbstomped just from this reply alone.

This is a ridiculous thread. Without the story and the lore, this game would literally be nothing. The reason Warcraft is king is because people love the characters and the stories and the places they get to visit in the games. The gameplay being great is the cherry on top of the cake, not the other way around.

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I don't read.

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You can build the world without wasting time. How many people even read quests? I did loremaster without reading more than 5% of the quests.

This sentence alone perfectly illustrates why the gaming industry is full of DLC, Cash Shops, Pay-to-Win and FPS shitfests. So many idiots like this OP only care about rewards and pay literally zero attention to the stories or the characters involved. Why do you even play World of Warcraft if you don't even understand who you're killing and why? So, so sad.

[Flurryfang]

If i had to choose between a zone with a lot of reward, but no lore, and a zone with a lot of Lore, but little reward, it would actually choose the 1 with a lot of lore. I think that lore is important for WoW and if its lacking, then it harms the game quite a bit. Of course, having several zones who have no reward is a bad thing, but it is something which can be compensated else where. When it comes to lore, if you miss it in important areas, then it is something which can never be made good again, since the time has passed.

[DesMephisto]

LOL. OP got curbstomped just from this reply alone.

This is a ridiculous thread. Without the story and the lore, this game would literally be nothing. The reason Warcraft is king is because people love the characters and the stories and the places they get to visit in the games. The gameplay being great is the cherry on top of the cake, not the other way around.

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This sentence alone perfectly illustrates why the gaming industry is full of DLC, Cash Shops, Pay-to-Win and FPS shitfests. So many idiots like this OP only care about rewards and pay literally zero attention to the stories or the characters involved. Why do you even play World of Warcraft if you don't even understand who you're killing and why? So, so sad.

I don't pay zero attention, I pay about 10-15%. The majority of it is useless tidbit pointless crap information. Major points or bust.

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If i had to choose between a zone with a lot of reward, but no lore, and a zone with a lot of Lore, but little reward, it would actually choose the 1 with a lot of lore. I think that lore is important for WoW and if its lacking, then it harms the game quite a bit. Of course, having several zones who have no reward is a bad thing, but it is something which can be compensated else where. When it comes to lore, if you miss it in important areas, then it is something which can never be made good again, since the time has passed.

I agree, however, I'd rather neither and a mix of both. A zone without a point is pointless by definition, knowledge for the sake of knowledge while admirable is useless in the realm of games.

[Narveid]

I don't read.

And you know what? That's fair. I am not going to criticise you for that. But don't you think it is a little bit ridiculous to think everything is catered to you? There is plenty of zones that has lots of rewards and lore. Go there. It is a mmorpg, don't expect everything to be there for your sake. A zone that don't fit you? Well, ignore it then, rush through it, do whatever. I for one am stoked to check out Suramar.

[Deemerbob]

I just did the vrykul area in South Eastern suramar where you fight off Naga. Got like 3 815 blue items and a few hundred artifact power for about 90 minutes of quests, which pro ably could have been cut down to 60 or less if I wasn't exploring, reading all text, and hunting for rares. So on top of the awesome lore/storytelling there seems to be some decent rewards as well. Since this is an early iteration of suramar we may just not be seeing all of the rewards and such just yet. Or possibly the stories that are not related to the nightborne or night fallen in the zone reward artifact power and items. /shrug

[Flurryfang]

I don't pay zero attention, I pay about 10-15%. The majority of it is useless tidbit pointless crap information. Major points or bust.

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I agree, however, I'd rather neither and a mix of both. A zone without a point is pointless by definition, knowledge for the sake of knowledge while admirable is useless in the realm of games.

Of course i would rather have a mix of both Going on only lore is gonna get boring sooner or later anyway But i have seen what blizzard have done with high/medium reward zones with a low amount of lore, in WoD, and i did not like it at all. So if they can make a combination, which are better then those zones, then that will be a good start

[DesMephisto]

And you know what? That's fair. I am not going to criticise you for that. But don't you think it is a little bit ridiculous to think everything is catered to you? There is plenty of zones that has lots of rewards and lore. Go there. It is a mmorpg, don't expect everything to be there for your sake. A zone that don't fit you? Well, ignore it then, rush through it, do whatever. I for one am stoked to check out Suramar.

That's not the point though. I'm not saying its what I want, it's about the good of the game though. Why would you not want both in the same zone? How is lore incentive enough to drive player interactions? Its fundamnetally flawed and potentially risks complete and total ignoring by the community as the time vs reward aspect is not significant.

[Pakmanisgod]

Why would I care what some asshat has to say? Hes just a person.

Why should I care about what this thread has to say? You're just a person.

[Thage]

That's not the point though. I'm not saying its what I want, it's about the good of the game though. Why would you not want both in the same zone? How is lore incentive enough to drive player interactions? Its fundamnetally flawed and potentially risks complete and total ignoring by the community as the time vs reward aspect is not significant.

Suramar is a requirement for flight. If you're that hung up on rewards, there's the one that saved WoD's boring-ass, horrible world content design: flying. Of course the powergamers and rollplayers will ignore a story-heavy zone, that does not make it bad game design in an RPG to make a zone more populated with lore than it is with player power increases. Stuff like that is a staple of roleplaying games.

Again, "I don't want" and "It's a waste" are not synonyms for any but the most egocentric of gamers and those are the real cancer in MMORPGs.

[DesMephisto]

Why should I care about what this thread has to say? You're just a person.

Why do you care?

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Suramar is a requirement for flight. If you're that hung up on rewards, there's the one that saved WoD's boring-ass, horrible world content design: flying. Of course the powergamers and rollplayers will ignore a story-heavy zone, that does not make it bad game design in an RPG to make a zone more populated with lore than it is with player power increases. Stuff like that is a staple of roleplaying games.

Again, "I don't want" and "It's a waste" are not synonyms for any but the most egocentric of gamers and those are the real cancer in MMORPGs.

I disagree, I thought WoD was a good expansion. Better than Cataclysm. I've done nearly everything WoD has had to offer. Mythic raiding, quests, titles, Warlord of Draenor title, Lord of War Title, achievements and gold farming. Overall I'd say it was a very enjoyable expansion, or at least, I've enjoyed myself significantly.

And I still think WoD was better WITHOUT flying.