Techspot: AMD Polaris 10 performance will reportedly be on par with Radeon 390/390X

[Artorius]

I came across this reddit topic

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comm...hat_are_1060s/

Is this a common thing in GPU manufacturing? Sounds like a shit way to have a standard for a circuitry.

Yes. Bad yields make them laser cut their own non-working chips so they can still sell them as a lower-tier product.

Sometimes if the demand is too high for the lesser product they'll have to end up laser cutting fully working chips, which is just funny.

[Noctifer616]

@Dukenukemx, I don't really follow your logic, why would a company artificially lower its yield? If they want to sell cheaper and less capable chips why not have a separate cheaper process for them?

That's not how it works. The last 3 generations were all done on the same process, a cheaper process would not offer the same performance. The biggest advancement in the silicon industry is using the best possible manufacturing process. 28nm is cheaper than 14/16nm, but just compare the Titan X to the 1080. It's twice the size (probably around the limit when it comes to chip size) of a 1080 chip. The 1080 clocks higher and offers the same amount of transistors at a lower size.

There are no alternatives besides using the most expensive process tech.

[Artorius]

They'll still use 28nm bulk for the lower-end products which will most likely just be rebrands.

[Kuntantee]

How you think people like me turn Radeon 9500's into 9700 Pro's? Also, the GTX 970 is a failed 980. But because people like me would take cheap graphic cards and turn them into $500+ cards with a simple software tweak, they now laser cut off the sections, because cards like the 970 are much higher in demand than the 980 and a lot of times both AMD and Nvidia will sell perfectly capable high end cards, but retard them to low end cards due to demand.

Makes you feel good about capitalism.

If that's the case, how do they have define a lower bound of performance for the chip? How do they eve have a standard for the set of internal components of the chip for a certain tier, say 1070, if the chip's damage (and its degree, e.g., # of damaged components) is random (it probably is)?

Exactly which components turn out damaged in some process of manufacture?

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Yes. Bad yields make them laser cut their own non-working chips so they can still sell them as a lower-tier product.

Sometimes if the demand is too high for the lesser product they'll have to end up laser cutting fully working chips, which is just funny.

Wow.... the greed and the capitalism is strong with gpu manufacturers.

[Asmekiel]

Wow.... the greed and the capitalism is strong with gpu manufacturers.

The other option is no GTX1060/GTX1070 and just a $1500 GTX1080.

[Deleted]

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapph...gx-37b-sp.html

Actually a good looker compared to most AIBs, and depending on how this performs, might be good value, but considering the ref 4GB models did release at £175 before the price went upto £188 for the cheapest model.

[Kuntantee]

The other option is no GTX1060/GTX1070 and just a $1500 GTX1080.

Did you read what he/she write? They damage fully-functioning chips to make them lower-tier. That's what I was referring to with "greed and capitalism". They can sell damaged chips as 1060 and 1070, no problem.

[Deleted]

Also to note, seems like other gpus have exceeded the PCI express slot power before, also apparently according to Gibbo, they sold around 2000 units so far of the RX480, which is pretty phenomenal, this card might just be doing what AMD needed and thats regaining market share.

[Kuntantee]

Will there be a 4GB version of Sapphire custom board? I am planning to get a 4gb, and upgrade to 1080 when I have some spare money.

[Deleted]

According to gibbo AMD stopped producing the 4GB model, though unsure how true that is, think he said the 4GB models were there best sellers, if it prints money, don't see why not at some point.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Also to note, seems like other gpus have exceeded the PCI express slot power before, also apparently according to Gibbo, they sold around 2000 units so far of the RX480, which is pretty phenomenal, this card might just be doing what AMD needed and thats regaining market share.

Is it just me, or is 2000 units not very many? I mean, that's a couple of orders of magnitude more than there were GTX 1080s in the first week, but still.

[Asmekiel]

Did you read what he/she write? They damage fully-functioning chips to make them lower-tier. That's what I was referring to with "greed and capitalism". They can sell damaged chips as 1060 and 1070, no problem.

To meet demands of slower chips when there's an excess of faster chips. I'd rather have this than what's happening in stores right now to the 1070.

[Deleted]

Is it just me, or is 2000 units not very many? I mean, that's a couple of orders of magnitude more than there were GTX 1080s in the first week, but still.

Thats 1 retailer, not globally or the UK, thats just OCUK alone that sold them, I would say gaming components don't sell as high as people expect.

[Kuntantee]

@Judy Hopps

I am not willing to transform this discussion to one about the business model of GPU manufacturers but know this: Their current model is optimizing their own profits. There exist a model which they do not damage proper chips to keep high-end card's price stable.

[Noctifer616]

@Judy HoppsTheir current model is optimizing their own profits. There exist a model which they do not damage proper chips to keep high-end card's price stable.

You don't get it. The manufacturing price of a damaged chip is the same as the fully functioning one. Damaged chips are not cheaper.

[Artorius]

Yeah, they buy wafers. They can ask GloFo, TSMC or Samsung to manufacture whatever the hell they want on those wafers, the price is the same per wafer.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Yeah, they buy wafers. They can ask GloFo, TSMC or Samsung to manufacture whatever the hell they want on those wafers, the price is the same per wafer.

Yep, the price for amd and nvidia is based on the area of the chip.

[Kuntantee]

According to gibbo AMD stopped producing the 4GB model, though unsure how true that is, think he said the 4GB models were there best sellers, if it prints money, don't see why not at some point.

In some UK website, the price will be 250 pounds, that's like 300 euro? Add hefty taxes we have here (around 40%), it will be a premium price for a budget card. Since I will be doing 1080 gaming, 4GB is enough for me. I really hope Sapphire produces 4GB version.

[Deleted]

In some UK website, the price will be 250 pounds, that's like 300 euro? Add hefty taxes we have here (around 40%), it will be a premium price for a budget card. Since I will be doing 1080 gaming, 4GB is enough for me. I really hope Sapphire produces 4GB version.

Yeah the 8GB models have gone up to around £250, thats already taxed with the current 20% VAT tax, however the 4GB model cheapest currently stands at £188 with tax, hopefully this comes back down for all regions but seems like demand has brought the prices up sadly.

[Vash The Stampede]

@Dukenukemx, I don't really follow your logic, why would a company artificially lower its yield? If they want to sell cheaper and less capable chips why not have a separate cheaper process for them?

They don't lower their yield, they just adjust for demand. For example, if AMD made 300 Polaris chips but only 100 of them are fully working. The other 200 are defective in some way, and engineers put the chips through testing to see which chips can be salvaged into RX 370's. Lets say about 150 of them, and the other 50 are thrown away cause they couldn't be saved. But AMD sells more RX 370's than 380's, so they may end up taking some perfectly working Polaris 10 chips and disabling them into a working RX 370.

Why not sell more 380's for a lower price? Cause AMD doesn't want to devalue the 380's for the customers benefits. Like I said, capitalism. Not all the chips from this wafer is a 100% working chip. Some have defects.

If that's the case, how do they have define a lower bound of performance for the chip? How do they eve have a standard for the set of internal components of the chip for a certain tier, say 1070, if the chip's damage (and its degree, e.g., # of damaged components) is random (it probably is)?

Exactly which components turn out damaged in some process of manufacture?

Sections of the chip just end up being damaged from manufactuering. This is just normal bad luck. Even still, AMD/Nvidia can hand pick the chips for better stability and overclocks. Those end up being FirePro's or Tesla GPUs for servers.

Wow.... the greed and the capitalism is strong with gpu manufacturers.

You can make it work in your favor. In the past they would disable those sections with drivers, which people got smart and hacked the drivers to turn cheap cards into expensive ones. Going even further, you can flash the bios to get around hacking the drivers. Nowadays AMD/Nvidia laser cut their chips physically to avoid this, but with 14nm and 16nm I wonder if they can continue to do this? It is an added expense to laser cut chips to prevent people from getting more for their money.

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The other option is no GTX1060/GTX1070 and just a $1500 GTX1080.

Doesn't work like that. If you sell $1500 GTX 1080's, who would buy them? Nobody would. We'd be using the CPU to render graphics. When companies do these things, they're not making it cheap enough for you to buy, they're just pocketing more money.