Guy gives 27 cross party reasons to vote "leave" on Brexit

[Independent voter]

This came into my newsfeed so I thought I'd post it. Guy writes down 27 reasons to leave the EU.

I'm with Obama on this one, it makes more sense for 1 Europe, but at the end of the day it's not my decision.

http://4b.rs/brexit.html



Britain's membership of the EU: Do you want to leave or stay?

This is the most important question you, as a Briton, will face for a generation. This report offers you 27 great reasons to vote ‘Leave' on June 23 – whether you're a staunch socialist or an ardent capitalist, a liberal or a nationalist, there's sure to be a reason which resonates with you...

-- snip 27 reasons (too long to post, read them at link)--

The EU's abysmal track-record on listening to European citizens in referendums provides unequivocal evidence that it cares little about democracy and far more about centralising power for multinational companies and growing its influence on international affairs no matter the cost. The EU doesn't care for you or your family and it's time the British people put a stop to this nonsense by taking control of our own affairs just as we did pre-1975. All of the evidence, all of the figures and all of the trends suggest very strongly that the EU is fundamentally flawed and is shrinking at a rate of knots. Why would you vote for more of the same? We, the world's fifth largest economy, should be excited to enter a new phase in our rich history as friendly European neighbours rather than bickering tenants inside the EU gravy train.

[caervek]

I have a simple outlook on the pros and cons of Brexit:

[Deleted]

That's not at all a one sided and biased report.

Although I dislike the EU as much as the next I want them to handle it fairly. I also think that simply bashing the extreme right parties doesn't gain you anything. If you can't argue against them they are obviously not entirely wrong.

[Hyve]

Personally, I don't know what to vote at the moment.

Almost everyday I find myself changing my mind because of what's going on, and slowly I find myself leaning more towards leaving. MY biggest concern with leaving of course is our ability to trade into the E.U. and still be a relevant powerhouse in the Global Market, however...

The European Union has gone too far on way too many rules, laws and regulations. The latest one, fining nations ~£250,000 per refugee they don't take, is a bit of a piss take in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the refugee crisis is an issue we all need to work towards, but when the EU itself sets quotas, and all we can do is accept it, it's not a very nice pill to swallow.

Other issues such as taxation on our own businesses, and not being able to offer special rates to companies due to competition issues, is just another example where I disagree and dislike the EU. The EU gives us so much, but it takes just as much back in other ways as well, and I'm not entirely sure if the EU is the best thing for us.

If the EU was truly reformed, I'd gladly stay, but I don't see a reformation occurring, I just see it falling apart. If the UK does leave, chances are other nations will see a surge in support for leaving too, as they'll soon have to start footing to bill we're not covering.

[Deleted]

If the EU was truly reformed, I'd gladly stay, but I don't see a reformation occurring, I just see it falling apart. If the UK does leave, chances are other nations will see a surge in support for leaving too, as they'll soon have to start footing to bill we're not covering.

Guess who that might be and guess who has mayor elections next year.

[Deleted]

Personally, I don't know what to vote at the moment.

Almost everyday I find myself changing my mind because of what's going on, and slowly I find myself leaning more towards leaving. MY biggest concern with leaving of course is our ability to trade into the E.U. and still be a relevant powerhouse in the Global Market, however...

The European Union has gone too far on way too many rules, laws and regulations. The latest one, fining nations ~£250,000 per refugee they don't take, is a bit of a piss take in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the refugee crisis is an issue we all need to work towards, but when the EU itself sets quotas, and all we can do is accept it, it's not a very nice pill to swallow.

Other issues such as taxation on our own businesses, and not being able to offer special rates to companies due to competition issues, is just another example where I disagree and dislike the EU. The EU gives us so much, but it takes just as much back in other ways as well, and I'm not entirely sure if the EU is the best thing for us.

If the EU was truly reformed, I'd gladly stay, but I don't see a reformation occurring, I just see it falling apart. If the UK does leave, chances are other nations will see a surge in support for leaving too, as they'll soon have to start footing to bill we're not covering.

We are the sole largest importer of EU goods and Ireland relies on us for trade. If the EU tried to "fuck us" if we left, they would literally Bankrupt the Irish. they would also take a huge hit themselves. Any trade relations would likely end up the same as now. Noone has an issue with the trade agreements.

As a single entity, the UK is the 5th largest economy on the planet. Even outside the EU our influence on global markets would not diminish to any point of concern. OFC there would be an initial dip, but once sorted and things settle down, I cant see us being any worse off personally.

my issue is that the stay campaign atm is making up some incredible bullshit and all of their figures and numbers are based on ultimate worst case scenarios. the fact that Dave seems to be claiming that Europe would fall back into dissaray and war without us shows how desperate they are.

Frankly, as the EU is atm, I think we should leave. they have shown that they are totally unwilling to reform and seem to be insistent on creating this united states of europe.
If it turns out we were wrong to leave, we can always reapply in the future once it becomes obvious that it is indeed in our interest. But with so many "anti-EU" parties making grounds in other nations and what looks to be others keeping a very close eye on what we decide to do; if we do leave, it could be the nail in the current corrupt bullshit establishment.

they have stretched far to far and people are starting to smell the bullshit they are shoveling

[Obelisk Kai]

I'm not British, I'm Irish living in Northern Ireland. So until a United Ireland appears...if ever...I'd rather Britain didn't immensely complicate my life through a selfish Brexit. So I'll be voting no.

[Deleted]

I'm not British, I'm Irish living in Northern Ireland. So until a United Ireland appears...if ever...I'd rather Britain didn't immensely complicate my life through a selfish Brexit. So I'll be voting no.

why do you think it would "immensely complicate your life"?

[Deleted]

You'd lose the entire FOREX overnight, no matter the new trade agreements. Outside the EU you will not be able to trade in EURO-denominated instruments and that is a big chunk of the financial service industry in the UK.
Ofc I have no idea if the people actually see any of that cash or if the industry manages to avoid taxes on a massive scale. But it will still be a significant loss of prestige and loss of top-level employment positions and the consumption that comes with them.

that would be an impossibility.

given that the uk runs about 41% of global forex it would be impossible to "lose overnight"

the EU doesnt have the infrastructure cabling to even take it away. If anything, in the long run the forex would shift more towards asia if it happened. It sure as hell wouldn't stay in the EU area.

If a vote to leave wins, there is a two year period of negotiated exit and probably another 5 years before anything meaningful happens. The EU will be just as hesitant to overreact as the UK given the risk of trade loss to both sides

[caervek]

Guess who that might be and guess who has mayor elections next year.

Who? Seriously there's like 20+ EU members you can't expect us to check all their election schedules lol.

[Obelisk Kai]

why do you think it would "immensely complicate your life"?

Well first off, as I said I am not British, I am Irish. I have to live with the indignity of my country being in two pieces, but what can I do except that endure that.

I live in a border region, so I am familiar with the euro currency and I use it whenever I go to the south. The thing is, there IS no border right now. It's a line on a map that doesn't interfere with my life at all. Last night I popped over for some pizza.

Brexit threatens that. I remember checkpoints on the major roads before and I'd rather not have them back.

Also a HUGE amount of the trade we do is with the south, which would be threatened by BREXIT. Some local business owners are already talking about moving down south if it goes ahead.

Now don't get me wrong, for all the suffering BREXIT will cause me I will at least take the silver lining satisfaction of it likely being the cause of the end of the United Kingdom, but that aggravation isn't worth it.

[GennGreymane]

but if they leave, who will they blame when things dont go as planned? Oh right....

[Acidbaron]

but if they leave, who will they blame when things dont go as planned? Oh right....

Parties like UKIP will take the cheap opposition route and blame foreigners as so is their way.

[Graeham]

Parties like UKIP will take the cheap opposition route and blame foreigners as so is their way.

UKIP aren't opposed to foreigners. They're opposed to unsustainable immigration and people coming to the country who take a piss all over it whilst demanding that everybody bends over backwards to cater to them. Furthermore many of the immigrants who are being criticised literally add nothing of note to the country's health and prosperity. Which is dangerous when it becoming increasingly difficult for people already in the UK to afford or even find a suitable home for themselves.

...and that's just a few reasons. Though by all means cry about 'bigotry' and 'racism' in a desperate attempt to ignore the fact that politics are far more complicated than that. Even if you make the case that UKIP are misguided in their approach the problems they seek to address still exist. Ignoring them will cause far more damage in the long run.

[Acidbaron]

UKIP aren't opposed to foreigners. They're opposed to unsustainable immigration and people coming to the country who take a piss all over it whilst demanding that everybody bends over backwards to cater to them. Furthermore many of the immigrants who are being criticised literally add nothing of note to the country's health and prosperity. Which is dangerous when it becoming increasingly difficult for people already in the UK to afford or even find a suitable home for themselves.

...and that's just a few reasons. Though by all means cry about 'bigotry' and 'racism' in a desperate attempt to ignore the fact that politics are far more complicated than that. Even if you make the case that UKIP are misguided in their approach the problems they seek to address still exist. Ignoring them will cause far more damage in the long run.

Blaming immigrants has and always will be an easy way to oversimplify a complicated greater issue. Do you have actually any numbers to support your bolded claim that are not directly from an UKIP spokes person?

On top of that, believing a Brexit will suddenly solve the migration is a laughable concept that holds no more value than the mere soundbyte it produces. Not to mention if the large influx of the past will not be undone by a brexit, neither will the capacity of hospitals, schools, housing and what be magically solved unless you plan to do mass deportation such as Nazi Germany did, which we both know neither on the table anywhere and not a realistic plan. The immigration also merely pointed out that problem, a problem already long in the making.

And it hinges on the notion that immigrants don't contribute a whole lot, which is a claim i have yet to see substantiated.

[Kardagh]

I'm not British, I'm Irish living in Northern Ireland. So until a United Ireland appears...if ever...I'd rather Britain didn't immensely complicate my life through a selfish Brexit. So I'll be voting no.

literally going to do nothing to complicate your life, you can still travel south of the border to the ROI no problem.

Please don't fall into the whims of the scaremongering, your life won't change for the worst. Britain's largest trading partner will still be the EU. Norway manages to trade with the EU and it remains one of the wealthiest nations on the continent.

A brexit won't break the UK up, far from it really. The Scots rejected independence and a rejection of the EU would only serve to bind the nation together even more.

Obama's "oh it could take years for a trade deal" spiel is incredibly dishonest, it's not like the UK has a backwards economic set up like many developing nations, which take years to gain trade agreements because of their economic weakness.

London will still be a financial centre of Europe as it has been for the last 200 years, but a brexit will give far more power back to the other cities of the UK and remove the top-heavy financial clout away from the south-east.

[Afrospinach]

If the EU was truly reformed, I'd gladly stay, but I don't see a reformation occurring, I just see it falling apart. If the UK does leave, chances are other nations will see a surge in support for leaving too, as they'll soon have to start footing to bill we're not covering.

This has already happened, at least the question is now being asked by others in great numbers(50% according to this article I read this morning).

I have not lived in the UK for 20 years but at this point I would vote out. The EU should stick to being a trade partnership imo, not a super-government.If member states cannot act to their own benefits they need to reform it or call it. The former will not happen. Out out out.

[rogueMatthias]

From what I've gathered so far on the debates on each side, according to BBC news and its completely unbiased news reporting -

REASONS TO STAY -
IF we leave, all of Europe will stop trading with us out of spite. Because that's how business works.
If we leave we'll all be a month's salary worse off each year... for unexplained reasons.
If we leave then it'll "endanger peace" and we'll all go to war with.. errr... Poland? Russia? I don't know.
Obama thinks we should stay and he's cool! Also he's black too! Maybe USA could join too if Obama thinks giving so much control over your laws to a different country is such an amazing idea. That sounds like something they'd really be up for.

REASONS TO LEAVE -
IF you're a racist and hate everyone that's different from you, then this is what you should vote. At the end of the day all of the "debates" around Immigration just come down to how racist you are really.



(I'm genuinely not decided one side or another yet, this is more a comment about how pathetic all the arguments either way are at the moment)

[Tydrane]

I'm not British, I'm Irish living in Northern Ireland. So until a United Ireland appears...if ever...I'd rather Britain didn't immensely complicate my life through a selfish Brexit. So I'll be voting no.

Uh... You don't at all see the irony in this post?

[Kardagh]

From what I've gathered so far on the debates on each side, according to BBC news and its completely unbiased news reporting -

REASONS TO STAY -
IF we leave, all of Europe will stop trading with us out of spite. Because that's how business works.
If we leave we'll all be a month's salary worse off each year... for unexplained reasons.
If we leave then it'll "endanger peace" and we'll all go to war with.. errr... Poland? Russia? I don't know.
Obama thinks we should stay and he's cool! Also he's black too! Maybe USA could join too if Obama thinks giving so much control over your laws to a different country is such an amazing idea. That sounds like something they'd really be up for.

REASONS TO LEAVE -
IF you're a racist and hate everyone that's different from you, then this is what you should vote. At the end of the day all of the "debates" around Immigration just come down to how racist you are really.

/snicker

Ah yes the loony lefty controled BBC. Can't think of any compelling arguments to throw against the leave camp? "NAH M8 THEY'RE ALL RASIST" It's pretty telling of the political climate of this country when the be-all and end-all of arguments have devolved into how fast you can quote mine your opponent into making them sound as if they've said an "OFFENSIVE" remark.