(Spoilers) Anyone play the Horde Broken Shore yet?

[Enthralled]

rda is playing you guys like a fiddle in this thread.

[Therikan]

rda is playing you guys like a fiddle in this thread.

Thats actually the only logical explanation.

[Deleted]

I guess you can't read then. Yes, I am against the Horde. No, I am not saying that we should kill them all, it's way more complex.

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By the way, here's a little nugget for the guys who keep saying "watch the video", pretending it shows that the Horde are bunnies and not cowards:

Open the video on the front page and scroll to 14:44.

Observe Sylvanas saying: "Broken Shore was just the beginning. The Alliance will retaliate. Given the opportunity, they will strike when we are weak."

She knows who's been naughty. She knows the Horde fled like cowards.

Well Sylvanas knows that the Alliance expected to flank their opponents which didn't happen, simply because they couldn't. I've read up until page 7 so if this is said elsewhere then I'll edit this later. Anyways that did not happen, she knew the Alliance(jaina&genn) would blame the Horde. I like how you blatantly ignore the fact that the scenario shows that they left at the same time. This was one of your first key arguments, then you try saying its just in game and not the same as the actual lore.(dafuq, game always shows the closest possible thing to the lore. Only deviates for gameplay like ressing,portals and stuff.) Now you just shift to another point.

1. The Alliance didn't stay and get wiped out. Genn, Jaina, the player and a few soldiers make it out alive and bring back Varian (we don't even know when specificly he dies. He could die on the way back to Stormwind.
2. "Show them what they don't see?" Are you for real?
Sylvanas: Hey Varian!
Varian: I'm busy, Sylvanas, can't it wait?
Sylvanas: There is a huge demon army here so we gotta go now.
Varian: Really? Show me!
Sylvanas: I can't you are too far away. Come here!
Varian: What? No. Guld'Dan is killing us I can't just go there. Also how am I even hearing you from that distance.
Sylvanas: I'm a Banshee I can scream very loud.
Nathanos: She really can. Trust me.

This cracked me up.

[rda]

See, THERE is your problem, you THINK something will happen the way you imagine. BUT YOU DONT KNOW THAT. You can't deffend an argument without any evidence, just because you "think " it might be the way you have in your head. The hard truth is that you WANT the horde to be the cowards despite solid evidence coming from players that actually played both scenarios in alpha.

I was saying things like "from what we know" from the beginning, acknowledging that info appearing in the future might change it. I doubted it would, though, and so far I have been right - the Horde movie *so far* confirms what was said after the Alliance scenario. When and if things change, I will change what I am saying.

There's no hard truth regarding me wanting bla bla and there's no "solid evidence" countering what I have been saying. It is telling that you proclaim there is "solid evidence" without explaining even a bit of it.

There's no "AT THE SAME TIME", read the texts in the scenarios.

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I like how you blatantly ignore the fact that the scenario shows that they left at the same time. This was one of your first key arguments, then you try saying its just in game and not the same as the actual lore.

They didn't leave at the same time because of what Jaina and Genn say and because of what Sylvanas says.

Your idea that Sylvanas said that the Alliance would blame the Horde even when the Horde did nothing wrong because Sylvanas knew that Jaina and Genn are whiny bitches is so far fetched, it is not funny. It is not true, go ask the blues. (If it is true, Blizzard writers should go kill themselves on the spot.)

[Zenny]

Which still sounds like malarkey. The guy survived getting a frontal stab in the throat, and the knife was coated in poison specifically made to counter his regeneration. If you don't land a killing blow on a troll and they get away, chances are the troll lives.

Fel magic bro.

Shit is hella strong.

[Deleted]

Both sylv and Varian wishes each other good luck as they go separate ways at the end. They know where the horde \ alliance will be to help each other.
Have played the event as horde and alliance - also the funeral parts.
There is no doubt about sylv and the fact that she worked together with Varian - genn and jaina are just crazy..

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Anyone else think it's weird that according to the video Vol'jin survives the Broken Shore only to get killed back in Orgrimmar? Seems the Horde is in for a bit of a different story than the Alliance.

As he sits on the throne with lethal wounds, he speaks his final words and wishes for the horde. We actually watch him die.

[rda]

Both sylv and Varian wishes each other good luck as they go separate ways at the end. They know where the horde \ alliance will be to help each other.
Have played the event as horde and alliance - also the funeral parts.
There is no doubt about sylv and the fact that she worked together with Varian - genn and jaina are just crazy..

Genn and Jaina worked with Sylvanas just like Varian. The Alliance did not expect the Horde to betray them. It all changed when Sylvanas fled to save the Horde, leaving the Alliance in dust. If Varian survived, he might very well be with Genn and Jaina on that.

[Deleted]

Your idea that Sylvanas said that the Alliance would blame the Horde even when the Horde did nothing wrong because Sylvanas knew that Jaina and Genn are whiny bitches is so far fetched, it is not funny. It is not true, go ask the blues. (If it is true, Blizzard writers should go kill themselves on the spot.)

If you and I are supposed to fight some guy and you don't show up and I get my ass handed to me by him and his buddies, then I will blame you. I will blame you up until the point where you explain that you were hold back in a different fight(some towns these days huh?)

If I would expect treachery/cowardice from you because of previous deeds( like Jaina obviously does) then I will still blame you because you've proven in the past that you are capable of such things like sylvanas obviously is as well. But I guess its just something I make of it and the cinematic will change my view on things.

[khalltusk]

Having seen both events, it seems to me that the Horde and alliance are cut off from one another with little to no communication between one another at that point. When it gets down to it the Horde take a huge amount of losses leaders injured. Sylvannas decides to take command and get them out of there as the situations lost.

The thing is the alliance can't really see the horde so from their POV the horde should have come by the flank and "never turned up". Obviously we as players know the horde got over run and had no chance at all of helping the alliance. Retreating or not would not have helped or hindered the alliances situation at that point.

The alliance obviously are angry even though they are incorrectly blaming the horde. The Horde lost just as much as they did and neither army could have done anything differently at that point.

[Deleted]

Having seen both events, it seems to me that the Horde and alliance are cut off from one another with little to no communication between one another at that point. When it gets down to it the Horde take a huge amount of losses leaders injured. Sylvannas decides to take command and get them out of there as the situations lost.

The thing is the alliance can't really see the horde so from their POV the horde should have come by the flank and "never turned up". Obviously we as players know the horde got over run and had no chance at all of helping the alliance. Retreating or not would not have helped or hindered the alliances situation at that point.

The alliance obviously are angry even though they are incorrectly blaming the horde. The Horde lost just as much as they did and neither army could have done anything differently at that point.

This is sort of what I wanted to say but you worded it far better then I could.

[Dreknar20]

There is a great amount of retard logic in this thread

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The alliance obviously are angry even though they are incorrectly blaming the horde. The Horde lost just as much as they did and neither army could have done anything differently at that point.

pretty much what we can assume at this point.

Horde says they will cover flank, both sides get trounced by Legion. Alliance blames Horde casue, well blaming people makes you feel better. Plus Genn/Jaina already have pre-existing 'not liking Horde' condition

[khalltusk]

There is a great amount of retard logic in this thread

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pretty much what we can assume at this point.

Horde says they will cover flank, both sides get trounced by Legion. Alliance blames Horde casue, well blaming people makes you feel better. Plus Genn/Jaina already have pre-existing 'not liking Horde' condition

Exactly my thinking, they distrust the horde anyway and them not turning up seals the deal for them. Obviously the horde would at some point say "we got shit pushed in yo we had to retreat" and not believe a word they say due to mistrust. It would take someone like anduin who would probably speak to baine and get the run down to come to the correct conclusion that the horde AND the alliance got wrecked and they couldnt do shit about it.

[rda]

Having seen both events, it seems to me that the Horde and alliance are cut off from one another with little to no communication between one another at that point. When it gets down to it the Horde take a huge amount of losses leaders injured. Sylvannas decides to take command and get them out of there as the situations lost.

The thing is the alliance can't really see the horde so from their POV the horde should have come by the flank and "never turned up". Obviously we as players know the horde got over run and had no chance at all of helping the alliance. Retreating or not would not have helped or hindered the alliances situation at that point.

The alliance obviously are angry even though they are incorrectly blaming the horde. The Horde lost just as much as they did and neither army could have done anything differently at that point.

What happened to communicating via magic / signal flares / whatever?

But fine, that's not a bad explanation, and Sylvanas does get some slack for having to pick overall command (I admit, I overlooked that before). In this case, the first thing the Horde have to do after they get back is go and explain what happened to the Alliance. (Sylvanas seems to be set on doing something else instead, but that might be because she isn't wise enough to see what's important.)

If that's what has happened, the Horde aren't cowards, both sides have their own version of the truth, and we have a misunderstanding with big consequences.

[bloodmoth13]

Allies angry that the horde didnt sacrifice themselves to save them

Typical

[khalltusk]

What happened to communicating via magic / signal flares / whatever?

But fine, that's not a bad explanation, and Sylvanas does get some slack for having to pick overall command. In this case, the first thing the Horde have to do is go and explain what happened to the Alliance. (Sylvanas seems to be set on doing something else instead, but that might be because she isn't wise enough to see what's important.)

If that's what has happened, the Horde aren't cowards, both sides have their own version of the truth, and we have a misunderstanding with big consequences.

I explained it a little in an earlier post, but will clear it up. We don't know how both sides kept in touch. The alliance and horde may have had signal flares or some sort of mages do it. But if they were killed or the situation was that chaotic there might not have been anyone to signal or time to signal. Regardless of either sides actions nothing would have helped the alliance or horde. They went into the situation full force and got overwhelmed. Just as the legion wanted.

Sylvanas, seems to have just picked up the chains of command and looked at the situation for what it was. Called time on it and got people out. She "might" have had an ulterior motive but at this point its doubtful. The situation was fucked and shes probably not stupid enough to want to fight the alliance while fighting off the legion. War on two fronts being a bad idea.

The Horde fought as best they could under the circumstances. The alliance distrustful of them see it differently as far as they can see the horde should have flanked with no opposition but didnt turn up. Any words the horde say wont sway people like Jaina or Greymane. Anduin would be the voice of reason.

[Maculo]

So this apparently opened up today. Any word on it yet? I'm convinced the Horde didn't truly abandon Varian and it is likely a misunderstanding. However, I may be giving Sylvanas too much credit.

Dang it! Can someone please fix the typo in the title?

I expected a misunderstanding as well, but there was one part of the Horde video that made me question that assumption. As Sylvannas enters the horde throne room, she says something along the lines that, "the Alliance will surely retaliate." I am curious if that means part of the Horde did take an opportunity to attack the Alliance, or perhaps the Alliance was caught by friendly fire.

[greeeed]

No you are not a coward but stupid. When facing an overwhelming force who will wipe you out, tactical retreat is the best option. you live to fight another day and now you know the strength and weakness of your enemy. Looks like Sylvanas is a better battle strategist than Varian.

Stupid who fight for till death to protect a lot better then coward who run away because he fear death.

Legion are not here to rules alliances and horde, but to kill all of them whatever they are old or young.

They run today, what will they do tomorrow when more Legion reinforcement arrive?
What will they do in middle of battle when legion open portal to different planets to summon more reinforcement?

Legion here to kill all of them, you just run away like rat at every impossible battle till you become last survivor.

Then what?
If you couldn't win against them alongside the alliance what make you believe you can do it alone?

Or, will you then forsake other Horde members in middle of battle too?
You can't win, so let's ignore Orcs who is fighting in front line and run away before they notice us...

And cycle of cowards and running away continue till Legion mange to end all life in Azeroth like they done to many planets before them.

[Scyclone]

Stupid who fight for till death to protect a lot better then coward who run away because he fear death.

Legion are not here to rules alliances and horde, but to kill all of them whatever they are old or young.

They run today, what will they do tomorrow when more Legion reinforcement arrive?
What will they do in middle of battle when legion open portal to different planets to summon more reinforcement?

Legion here to kill all of them, you just run away like rat at every impossible battle till you become last survivor.

Then what?
If you couldn't win against them alongside the alliance what make you believe you can do it alone?

Or, will you then forsake other Horde members in middle of battle too?
You can't win, so let's ignore Orcs who is fighting in front line and run away before they notice us...

And cycle of cowards and running away continue till Legion mange to end all life in Azeroth like they done to many planets before them.

Or you know, you could employ actual strategic tactics and not waltz into a trap thinking you are invincible. There is no cowardice in retreating from a fight that has been lost. You take your armies, you regroup, you reprepare and you fight on your terms. Any intelligent warrior or tactician will always say that whenever given the option, you should always fight on your terms, when you hold the cards and the advantages are yours.

This had everything to do with the need to regroup and readjust strategies. The horde and alliance underestimated the legion and they paid for it dearly. That is why retreating and regrouping was so critical. If they hadn't, Azeroth would be lost. But because the horde retreated, which pushed the alliance into retreating, they can fight once more with some more firepower.

The Class Orders, the artifacts, the pillars, the demon hunters, and targeting the benefactors of the legion are many different ways that the remnants of the horde and alliance have been able to regroup and fight back. We are stronger now than we've ever been, and we are going to be stronger when we face the legion than when they faced us on the broken shores. That is the whole point.

Call it running if you want, but the victor at the end of the war will be those who know how to retreat.

[Deleted]

Both sylv and Varian wishes each other good luck as they go separate ways at the end. They know where the horde \ alliance will be to help each other.
Have played the event as horde and alliance - also the funeral parts.
There is no doubt about sylv and the fact that she worked together with Varian - genn and jaina are just crazy..

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As he sits on the throne with lethal wounds, he speaks his final words and wishes for the horde. We actually watch him die.

Plus we really can't be sure when precisely does Varian die. When we last see him at the Broken Shore he is alive and well. After the fade out we are in Stormwind Harbor and he is dead. So maybe neither died on the Broken Shore.

[Zenny]

They run today, what will they do tomorrow when more Legion reinforcement arrive?
What will they do in middle of battle when legion open portal to different planets to summon more reinforcement?

Retreating from a superior enemy in order to regroup is not cowardice. It's the sign of someone who know what they are fucking doing.