Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Osmeric]

A lot of what people criticize as "casualization" actually is pandering to a noisy contingent of raiders.

It also catered to raid designers. Those devs didn't want alternate content to lure people away from their precious raids. Low participation numbers look bad on your performance review, you know.

[Sansnom]

Just about luck? That's quite the understatement. Killing Ragnaros was no easy feat. Neither was killing C'thun, Kel'thuzad, Illidan or Kil'jaedan.

Killing the boss is hard, acquiring a legendary is purely based on luck. If it was based on skill alone, then technically, those who managed to beat the boss first should have the legendary. But they do not.

World first players may never get the legendary but a player months behind the progression could.

[Pieterman]

Killing the boss is hard, acquiring a legendary is purely based on luck. If it was based on skill alone, then technically, those who managed to beat the boss first should have the legendary. But they do not.

World first players may never get the legendary but a player months behind the progression could.

It doesn't have to be skill alone, it never was and it never can be. Taking any and every skill out of it is my problem with it.

[greysaber]

60+% of the respondents here are delusional.

The easier wow gets, the quicker people leave the game. It's as simple as that.

[Dormie]

People still think WoD is casual?
Stop ignoring the raid or die.

Casuals made raiding casual. What aren't you getting?

[Osmeric]

Casuals made raiding casual. What aren't you getting?

Oh, you wouldn't like a raiding game that was REALLY aimed at casuals. It would have no place for you whatsoever.

[Traveler Voltin]

Casuals made raiding casual. What aren't you getting?

nope. that was blizzard but keep being delusional.

[Dormie]

Oh, you wouldn't like a raiding game that was REALLY aimed at casuals. It would have no place for you whatsoever.

Neither would you. I'm sure you'd still be awful at it.

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nope. that was blizzard but keep being delusional.

And why do you think Bliz did that?

[Daffan]

This. Ppl still dont use conclusive arguments to not use lfr. I use for legendary itens for example. And i dont see problem in ppl that dont or cant participate in core raid group have good itens

Nobody actually cares that casuals can get good items. If they do, they are a minority (and kinda selfish). Casuals can be better then hardcore players, just play less time.

The real problem with getting good items very easily/short time is that it makes the content before it worthless. eg. HM/BRF/pre-raid is very cool but completely worthless because you can easily get HFC items from afk in pvp.

[Redroniksre]

Casualization, in my opinion, is not the biggest problem in WoW. Casualization is the result of a changing demographic and changing times, and is not necessarily bad. The problem is that they tried to pigeon hole everyone into raiding, which the majority do not want, and as a result had to compromise with raids. It seems like this is changing in Legion with a bigger focus on World content and Dungeon content that is as rewarding as raiding, which means there is no reason to compromise with raids (outside of a see the raid mode). Casualization always happens, and even casual games, say Dark Souls, can still be hard yet gives you the tools to succeed, Blizzard hasn't been able to figure that part out (hopefully now though).

[Shinv]

The Catch up systems which has made things casual is why were always playing the patch and not the expansion. Ironically despite the casuals yelling for more content they don't seem to realize these catch up mechanics phase out a lot of that content they be playing. Casualization is a catch 22 when trying to pander to everybody. Making things casual in terms of removing overly tedious things that remove a lot of back tracking is fine. Making the content too trivial too fast to pander to everyone leaves us with an unrewarding boring experience for everyone. There should be some catch up but we shouldn't be doing through pvp and easy world content (world bosses are fine).

Also the rate that ilvls have increased are are way too fast separate problem slightly related. I think cata actually had a decent system for catch up but the dungeon gear shouldn't have been as good as the previous raid gear. I like that new dungeons were being released along with raids, well of eternity was pretty great imo. Cata just didn't have up to par raids and got a rocky start with the dungeon difficultly out cry despite many enjoying it.

[Tomana]

The easier wow gets, the quicker people leave the game. It's as simple as that.

Would you mind showing me all those hardcore MMOs attracting huge crowds? Oh wait...

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The Catch up systems which has made things casual is why were always playing the patch and not the expansion. Ironically despite the casuals yelling for more content they don't seem to realize these catch up mechanics phase out a lot of that content they be playing. Casualization is a catch 22 when trying to pander to everybody.

The problem is, the alternative is even worse. You would force people to run through LFR (or worse, normal) from all the previous tiers to access the current tier? This was the case in early MOP, and the system was not working that well.

[Deleted]

edit: never mind. misquoted

[Shinv]

The problem is, the alternative is even worse. You would force people to run through LFR (or worse, normal) from all the previous tiers to access the current tier? This was the case in early MOP, and the system was not working that well.

Thing is with the current setup of the legendary quest system players already do back through lfr. Making the system somewhat encourage seeing the first tiers of raiding as intended wouldn't be so bad. Almost nobody is properly immersed playing the game the way LFR works and the fact that it only really functions cause of the need of the legendary questline shows its really a forced system like I said leaving everyone bored. We have a system that barely encourages anybody to learn or play there class to raid standards.

I'm not saying force everyone through the old raid until geared enough to the next raid to the final raid. That much time spent gearing created the tbc guild raiding recruitment problems. Here's what I suggest after a raids tier has ended the previous raid bosses drop double the gear per kill. This will dramatically improve the old tbc situation. A new dungeon along side the new raid tier is released offering slightly worse gear then previous raid. Also I think blizzard should release more smaller raids with 2-4 bosses with each tier, while the main story driven raid of that tier gives the set bonuses. Smaller sized raids help people with less time to raid to still get strong gear to help progress. See I just don't care for the excuses of the past there are ways to figure these things out.

[Sansnom]

It doesn't have to be skill alone, it never was and it never can be. Taking any and every skill out of it is my problem with it.

Why not? By definition, a legendary should be extremely rare. So it should be extremely hard to acquire it which requires really skillful players. What is wrong with that?

If it is based on the luck, then anyone should have a chance to acquire. Why would RNG be exclusive to a few? Luck does not require skill at all.

[Hellborne87]

Casuals ruined the game. Everything is watered down, too easy, and gear =welfare. Can't really argue with that.

[Pieterman]

Why not? By definition, a legendary should be extremely rare. So it should be extremely hard to acquire it which requires really skillful players. What is wrong with that?

Nothing, I'm all for that. Even if I never get one, it's still better design.

If it is based on the luck, then anyone should have a chance to acquire. Why would RNG be exclusive to a few? Luck does not require skill at all.

Not quite sure what you mean. I don't think 1/25000 legendary drops off random bears is interesting or engaging. It's fun for a bit if you get one, but it's lazy design.

[zorkuus]

WoW was always casual... compared to the competition.

[Dormie]

Would you mind showing me all those hardcore MMOs attracting huge crowds? Oh wait...

Let me know when you can prove it has anything to do with an mmo being hardcore.

[lightofdawn]

the biggest problem wow has is the fact that its community's vocal minority are constantly trying to tear it down and make the game less fun for others just because they find no joy in it anymore.