Gtx 1080

[Fascinate]

I don't think people get how fast the 1070 is, its at least doubly fast as a 970. CPU's never drop in price, GPU's absolutely do and we will see 200 dollar brand new 970's in the next few months.

[Evildeffy]

How are they going to clear stock if they dont drop prices? You cant sell 970's for 300 bucks when the 1070 comes out. You will see 200 dollar 970's for sure.

Exactly how do you see this happening?

The first round of 1070s will be 449 USD for at least a month at the time of release (June 10th) because of "Founder's Edition".
After that it will be 379 USD (FOR THE 3RD PARTY DESIGNS!), if the 970 is 300 USD by the time AIBs release their custom designs between 379 - 400 USD you can bet your ass that the 970 will still cost 300 USD.
This is how economics work and store prices will not falter in that regard.. only 2nd hand.

[Fascinate]

This happens all the time what are you people rambling on about lol. I can recall this happening all the way back to the gtx 480 days. GTX 570 was 330 bucks on release which dropped the 480 down around those prices, when the GTX 670 came out the 570 dropped down around 220 bucks. Why do you guys not think the same will happen with the 970? They will sell none of the 970 stock at 300 dollars.

[Evildeffy]

This happens all the time what are you people rambling on about lol. I can recall this happening all the way back to the gtx 480 days. GTX 570 was 330 bucks on release which dropped the 480 down around those prices, when the GTX 670 came out the 570 dropped down around 220 bucks. Why do you guys not think the same will happen with the 970? They will sell none of the 970 stock at 300 dollars.

My memory serves me differently and tech barely drops in price here and from other examples/
Until the (r)etailer wants to get rid of the ancient (note: Not old) stock quickly they'll price accordingly but the tiers are still set since the 1070 does not challenge the 970 performance bracket due to the fact that this time it is not a simple refresh of hardware but actually new stuff with different costs associated with it.

Had the 1060 been released which should be 970 levels of performance the story would be different .. but there isn't.

[Fascinate]

Maybe because you live in netherlands? I dunno man, this is very common here in the states. Trust me, the 970 will be getting a large price drop in the next 3-4 months especially once the non reference designs start popping up as well as polaris 10.

[Evildeffy]

Maybe because you live in netherlands? I dunno man, this is very common here in the states. Trust me, the 970 will be getting a large price drop in the next 3-4 months especially once the non reference designs start popping up as well as polaris 10.

The only price slashing that MAY cause the 970 to fall are 2 things and 1 is even very unlikely to happen, both unrelated to 1070/1080 launch as you stated.

1: Polaris 10 comes out with a card that is insanely cheap and beats the 970.
(whilst this is likely to happen the price cut will likely NOT happen from this since the 970 has no "future" left as it's getting replaced, so what's in stock will be the last of the stock and this happens worldwide not geography based, this is simple economics)

2: nVidia released the 1060 which directly competes for the performance spot vs. the 970 but at a cheaper price.

The likeliest to occur is 2 since 1 is fun and dandy but I've seen it time and again internationally (I travelled a lot, now not happening without a job) that old tech prices do not drop unless there's a compelling reason to from the seller's own camp.

Because, unfortunately I might add, there are a factor of 100 more people who don't have a clue and don't know the performance details and simply want an nVidia card.
As much as you may think this ridiculous this is simple psychology combined with economics.

Again nVidia holds tiers of performance, as long as the tier isn't violated by a new product it will retain the price for the most part.
They will likely lower the cost but not nearly as much as you think as the costs of production still need to be gotten from it.

[Vash The Stampede]

It is 340 again... so...

With those prices, it are usually just short sales. Cards never really drop in price after a new card gets released...

Once the sales are over, they retain the original price for the few cards they have in stock. Those are kept at that price for consumers who don't stay up to date in technology. At that point, it's all about the used market.

[Master Guns]

I'm personally excited for the EVGA and MSI 1070s. Can't wait to see what they do with it. Those are typically my two favorite versions. EVGA has great cooling.

[ati87]

Maybe because you live in netherlands? I dunno man, this is very common here in the states. Trust me, the 970 will be getting a large price drop in the next 3-4 months especially once the non reference designs start popping up as well as polaris 10.

Looking at the historical price of a few older generation cards (670 and 770) and I do see a sudden drop in prices

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/33537...gb-gaming.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/31845...c2og-2gd5.html

At some point it's also going up but best ignore that since usually that just means is actually out of stock.

It's true that when it's the current gen the prices themselves don't change much

[Lathais]

Looking at the historical price of a few older generation cards (670 and 770) and I do see a sudden drop in prices

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/33537...gb-gaming.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/31845...c2og-2gd5.html

At some point it's also going up but best ignore that since usually that just means is actually out of stock.

It's true that when it's the current gen the prices themselves don't change much

Actually, your graph shows that is not true. The thing released then steadily went down in price until it reached its "final price." The 970 released in Sept 2014, by which point the 770 had already bottomed out and afterwards it's price rose. So looking at that data, it's true that prices ONLY change while it's the current gen and then stay where they were at indefinitely.

[Vash The Stampede]

Current gen products only go down in price when there's competition or a replacement. The R9 290x for example was once $550. You can buy that card right now off NewEgg for $280. It's low in stock and you would expect the prices to go up, if it wasn't for the 390's which are the same graphics chip. Which the R9 390X is currently $380 on NewEgg. This is why I'm pissed at AMD for introducing the 390's cause the 290's were getting dirt cheap. The 390's were AMD's attempt to prevent a price drops of the 290's. It worked, except it didn't bring them sales like the 970 did for Nvidia.

I don't expect the 1070 to be faster on average to the 980 Ti. Maybe in select few games I can see this. But the 970 and 980 are outclassed by the 1070, and makes no sense for anyone to sell them above 1070 prices. While the 970 is cheaper than the 1070, the 980 isn't and will have to come down. Even at $350 the 980 doesn't make sense when at $380 the 1070 is much faster. Will Nvidia and retailers price it like this? Probably, but you do have to take into account Polaris. I have zero knowledge of what to expect from Polaris but if the R9 480 is $250 but performs like a 970, then yes I can expect dramatic price drops from Nvidia's Maxwell products.

If you see a GTX 970 for $200-$250, or whatever is equivalent in Euros, BUY IT. If will not get any cheaper than that, unless you look into the used market. And right now, they're hovering around $250 on Ebay.

[Lathais]

Current gen products only go down in price when there's competition or a replacement. The R9 290x for example was once $550. You can buy that card right now off NewEgg for $280. It's low in stock and you would expect the prices to go up, if it wasn't for the 390's which are the same graphics chip. Which the R9 390X is currently $380 on NewEgg. This is why I'm pissed at AMD for introducing the 390's cause the 290's were getting dirt cheap. The 390's were AMD's attempt to prevent a price drops of the 290's. It worked, except it didn't bring them sales like the 970 did for Nvidia.

I don't expect the 1070 to be faster on average to the 980 Ti. Maybe in select few games I can see this. But the 970 and 980 are outclassed by the 1070, and makes no sense for anyone to sell them above 1070 prices. While the 970 is cheaper than the 1070, the 980 isn't and will have to come down. Even at $350 the 980 doesn't make sense when at $380 the 1070 is much faster. Will Nvidia and retailers price it like this? Probably, but you do have to take into account Polaris. I have zero knowledge of what to expect from Polaris but if the R9 480 is $250 but performs like a 970, then yes I can expect dramatic price drops from Nvidia's Maxwell products.

If you see a GTX 970 for $200-$250, or whatever is equivalent in Euros, BUY IT. If will not get any cheaper than that, unless you look into the used market. And right now, they're hovering around $250 on Ebay.

Just like it makes no sense for a 760 to cost more than a 960, but it does.
Just like it makes no sense for a 770 to cost more than a 970, but it does.
Just like it makes no sense for a 780 to cost more than a 980, but it does.

I could go on and on, with cards from both camps, across multiple generational spans. I mean, I get what you are saying, and it should work that way, but it just doesn't. History has shown this to be true. It just does not happen in a way that makes sense and that you and other seem to think it does. It would be nice if it did, but it just doesn't.

Just look at the posted graph. You can see that they just steadily go down in price over the course of their life, like anything else, max price when new, then after a few months the price starts to go down slowly, then levels off. For some reason though, with technology, once it hits that level off, it just sits there.

[Vash The Stampede]

Just like it makes no sense for a 760 to cost more than a 960, but it does.
Just like it makes no sense for a 770 to cost more than a 970, but it does.
Just like it makes no sense for a 780 to cost more than a 980, but it does.

Those cards are really old and suppliers are now holding out for those who just have to have a 760 or 780, regardless. The prices will come down, but it will be brief and you have to be quick to snatch them up. After that, you have to venture into the used market. Some suppliers can afford to sit on their products. Some suppliers are also not right in the head.

Anyway, new video from AdoredTV. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Pascal is looking like Maxwell with a speed bump. I also expect these cards to do poorly in DX12 with Async Compute.

[Life-Binder]

theres like 1 or 2 games with heavy Async compute

theres much more to DX12 then just Async (of which Pascal has enhanced capability compared to Maxwell) and Pascal supports DX 12_1



cant wait for 1070 benches

[Shinzai]

Anyway, new video from AdoredTV. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Pascal is looking like Maxwell with a speed bump. I also expect these cards to do poorly in DX12 with Async Compute.

I wonder if people will give up on hyping async sooner or later. It's a 5-10% gain in all test cases we've seen so far. Which in real world terms is 5-10fps (if you're already going between 60~100fps). If you're only getting 40fps average in a game, async might gain you another 3-4 fps. That's all. It's not going to make or break anything and it's not a wonder-tech of any sort.

This isn't the be-all-end-all tech.

[Bigvizz]

Anyway, new video from AdoredTV. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Pascal is looking like Maxwell with a speed bump. I also expect these cards to do poorly in DX12 with Async Compute.

Getting tired of these Maxwell rebadge arguments. Wccftech has a pretty good write up about the 1080, Read it.

[Shinzai]

Getting tired of these Maxwell rebadge arguments. Wccftech has a pretty good write up about the 1080, Read it.

The core concept of Pascal being a boosted Maxwell is actually pretty accurate. It's essentially the same design, shrunk down, with some new features added. That's pretty hard to argue in any way.

Pascal is basically what Maxwell should have been in the first place, as Maxwell was never originally intended to be a 28nm design. It became one due to the limitations that occurred from numerous delays/failures with 20nm processes. More realistically, Maxwell became a larger and slower chip than planned, but was re-designated to fill the void of smaller design processes.

[Stormspark]

It looks great. But I'm going to wait for the 1080ti, or whatever they call it (the ti version of the next Titan). Sticking with my 980ti until then.

[Bigvizz]

The core concept of Pascal being a boosted Maxwell is actually pretty accurate. It's essentially the same design, shrunk down, with some new features added. That's pretty hard to argue in any way.

Pascal is basically what Maxwell should have been in the first place, as Maxwell was never originally intended to be a 28nm design. It became one due to the limitations that occurred from numerous delays/failures with 20nm processes. More realistically, Maxwell became a larger and slower chip than planned, but was re-designated to fill the void of smaller design processes.

Yea you're right, more I'm tired of reading it in a negative light like rebadge = shit, also Pascal looks to have a form of A-sync support and as you said earlier the performance delta shouldn't be that big with or without it. If rebadged = shit then e.g. R9 200 and 300 should consider in the same light.

[Vash The Stampede]

I wonder if people will give up on hyping async sooner or later. It's a 5-10% gain in all test cases we've seen so far. Which in real world terms is 5-10fps (if you're already going between 60~100fps). If you're only getting 40fps average in a game, async might gain you another 3-4 fps. That's all. It's not going to make or break anything and it's not a wonder-tech of any sort.

This isn't the be-all-end-all tech.

This is the sorta thing that angers me about the community on things like this. In that context, 5-10fps gain doesn't sound important, until you realize that's the difference between the 980 and 970. Somehow the community will justify the price difference. And yet, Async Compute does the same thing, FOR FREE! Except for Nvidia cards where AC is a negative 5-10fps.

And yea, if you're getting 30-40fps then an extra 3-4 is nothing to get excited about. If you're at 90-100fps, then another 5-10fps isn't going to do you much. But a lot of times, that's the difference between one piece of hardware or another, with a significant cost difference.

theres like 1 or 2 games with heavy Async compute

theres much more to DX12 then just Async (of which Pascal has enhanced capability compared to Maxwell) and Pascal supports DX 12_1

cant wait for 1070 benches

At this point every new game released should be using DX12 or Vulkan. Every new game will also have DX11 or OpenGL, but why look backwards? If you have a 1070 or 1080, why would you be interested in obliterating the frame rates of DX11 games? More so than graphic cards already do?