The Great American Lie: Work Earns Living Wage

[Halicia]

Minimum wage is not what drives inflation; this is a discussion we've been over and over. It in fact is possible for businesses to have a sustainable model where they pay their employees a living wage and still make plenty of profit. It's just a little leaner margin. We need to cut the fat that can't handle a sustainable model.

Oh, I'm not saying it did. I will say that businesses and government are inclined to increase pay in line with inflation, but reap the profits off being *just* a little too slow on it.

[talwynn]

Well the democrats where in power for eight years... what changed exactly?

How were the dems in charge exactly? The President? If the dems were in charge, the elected Presidents nomination for the supreme court would be approved instead of those asshates in the senate sitting around waiting for someone else to nominate a justice. All they are doing is handcuffing the highest court in the land. But yes, the dems are in charge.

[Mihalik]

Conservatives will no doubt rewrite history and say these people don't deserve to be paid a living wage. This is what happens when the wealthy go unchecked.

Those people only need some boostraps to pull themselves up.

[Daerio]

Oh, I'm not saying it did. I will say that businesses and government are inclined to increase pay in line with inflation, but reap the profits off being *just* a little too slow on it.

The thing is, that's what they've been doing for decades already, and that's why minimum wage needs the massive increase it currently does. The result is the entire economy slows down because of it. Governments measure this number and how much money it costs every year, it's not some fictional narrative.

Government policy should be based on reality; cause and effect of legislation. Not mindless bullshit rhetoric.

[Theinquisition]

I think the recession brought out a lot of complacency in a many of the veterans. As screwed up as the VA has always been, people didn't really notice until they becamse so overwhelmed that it could no longer be ignored. I've seen guys turn joblessness into depression, and then somehow manifest it into actual PTSD. I have no doubt that if they were on solid financial footing, they would have never been diagnosed with PTSD. I know some of them were faking it, just to get benefits. I get why they did it, they were desperate, but it makes things that much harder for the people with real PTSD. I grew up in a ranching town, where work was expected of everyone. I never saw so many lazy people, as my first few weeks in boot camp. I agree that most veterans just want to work, and most work their asses off. However, I do see a great deal of complacency if things start to get difficult for them.

The problem I see with many in the veteran community, is that they think they will exit the service and walk into a job making the same if not more than what they are making in the service.

It's sad, but definitely not the reality, that's why I always encouraged my troops to use their TA when they were in.

[Machismo]

The problem I see with many in the veteran community, is that they think they will exit the service and walk into a job making the same if not more than what they are making in the service.

It's sad, but definitely not the reality, that's why I always encouraged my troops to use their TA when they were in.

Yeah, the military is downright shitty when it comes to preparing the enlisted for the real world. I knew a ton of guys who just assumed they'd find a job while on terminal leave. Of course, the military has no desire to change, since they want soldiers to be scared to get out. It helps keep re-enlistments up.

[Vurdah]

Minimum wage is not what drives inflation; this is a discussion we've been over and over. It in fact is possible for businesses to have a sustainable model where they pay their employees a living wage and still make plenty of profit. It's just a little leaner margin. We need to cut the fat that can't handle a sustainable model.

Imo we need more companies to come out that are willing to use a sustainable model and the population needs to provide them with overwhelming support. More places like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvarado_Street_Bakery

[Cthulhu 2020]

So is deciding to forcibly take money from one group, and give it to another. That's a cop out, and people want to use the government to do it.

You're talking about forcibly taking money from people who have used government and tax dollars to allocate money to themselves as their means of success. The Waltons have gained an enormous portion of their success from allocating tax dollars to themselves, and yet when it's suggested we tax them more, it's "theft".

[Machismo]

The thing is, that's what they've been doing for decades already, and that's why minimum wage needs the massive increase it currently does. The result is the entire economy slows down because of it. Governments measure this number and how much money it costs every year, it's not some fictional narrative.

Government policy should be based on reality; cause and effect of legislation. Not mindless bullshit rhetoric.

But it really does not need the massive increase that people think it does. The current minimum wage is not far off from past years when you take inflation into account. There's absolutely no reason to think that it should be $15 an hour nationwide, since we've never been close to that in any year. Our highest when adjusted for inflation was about $10:50. Even then, it was more of an outlier than anything else.

http://www.financialramblings.com/ar...mum-wage-rate/

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-minimum-wage/

[araine]

It doesnt matter anyways. Wal-mart invading local towns and cities is not a Federal Issue. It is a local issue, local politicians allowing them to come in and build taking jobs from the local hardware store and the local pharmacy. Same with every other big box store. If you dont want Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, GAP etcc...in your town, YOU have to be more involved in YOUR community. STOP blaming faceless politicians In DC for YOUR laziness.

That have nothing to do with the lie that someone said that we have had 8 years of democratic control.

[Machismo]

You're talking about forcibly taking money from people who have used government and tax dollars to allocate money to themselves as their means of success. The Waltons have gained an enormous portion of their success from allocating tax dollars to themselves, and yet when it's suggested we tax them more, it's "theft".

That mentality only works if ALL the people you want to take money from did that. If not, you are trying to steal money from them in order to enact some personal justice, even if they may have never done anything to deserve it. Not all wealthy people got there by screwing over strangers.

[araine]

In all honesty, a lot of vets also feel entitled, and think everyone owes them something.

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So is deciding to forcibly take money from one group, and give it to another. That's a cop out, and people want to use the government to do it.

yeah like how the rich are stealing all income growth and not giving anything for anyone else. class warfare and the rich are winning right now we need to stop that

[Machismo]

yeah like how the rich are stealing all income growth and not giving anything for anyone else. class warfare and the rich are winning right now we need to stop that

Are all the rich doing it, or just some? By pushing for punitive legislation against all the wealthy, you are wanting to punish people who did not deserve it. How is that any different than ending all welfare, because some people abuse it?

[ArguesWithStrangers]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...vernment-help/



Conservatives will no doubt rewrite history and say these people don't deserve to be paid a living wage. This is what happens when the wealthy go unchecked.

Pay and benefits are not a reward for services rendered. They are a means of attracting qualified individuals to provide desired services. If the pay is not sufficient for your valuable services, take them elsewhere. If your services are not valuable enough to entice employers to pay you sufficient to your needs, then I suggest you either find a way to increase your market value or find a way to live more modestly. Screaming for politicians to arbitrarily set your value so high that your services are prohibitively expensive to employers will only result in your job being rendered obsolete by automation or being sent elsewhere where the labor is cheaper.

It is not the strongest who survive, nor the most intelligent, but rather the most adaptive to change. Adapt to your reality and achieve on your own merit. You will find there is much greater satisfaction in making your own way under your own power than having your prosperity handed to you. In truth, when it is handed to you, it doesn't even feel like prosperity. It just becomes the new perception of poverty and you will just start screaming for more.

[Bodakane]

Pay and benefits are not a reward for services rendered. They are a means of attracting qualified individuals to provide desired services. If the pay is not sufficient for your valuable services, take them elsewhere. If your services are not valuable enough to entice employers to pay you sufficient to your needs, then I suggest you either find a way to increase your market value or find a way to live more modestly. Screaming for politicians to arbitrarily set your value so high that your services are prohibitively expensive to employers will only result in your job being rendered obsolete by automation or being sent elsewhere where the labor is cheaper.

It is not the strongest who survive, nor the most intelligent, but rather the most adaptive to change. Adapt to your reality and achieve on your own merit. You will find there is much greater satisfaction in making your own way under your own power than having your prosperity handed to you. In truth, when it is handed to you, it doesn't even feel like prosperity. It just becomes the new perception of poverty and you will just start screaming for more.

Blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

No one was asking for a handout. No one was asking for anything to be handed to them.

They were asking for a living wage. Not a great salary. Not to be rich.

Just to work a real job and not have to be on welfare to fucking eat.

At some point, you conservatives are going to run out of jobs that you feel its ok to be paid below a living wage to have. I hope yours is next quite frankly.

[bladeXcrasher]

There are some out there no doubt, but they are few and far in between. Most Vets just want to be left alone, especially by the far right and far left.

Pretty much this, I don't even talk about what I did with my own family, I could care less about doing it with complete strangers. If anything vets get triggered when they witness random people attacking there own. At that point our sense of loyalty kicks in and we defend our brother/sister.

[Cthulhu 2020]

That mentality only works if ALL the people you want to take money from did that. If not, you are trying to steal money from them in order to enact some personal justice, even if they may have never done anything to deserve it. Not all wealthy people got there by screwing over strangers.

There's proposed tax hikes on the largest corporations, all of which have directly benefited from tax dollar subsidies in many ways. So... yes?

But every time someone says tax the wealthiest, people go "They earned it! Stop stealing!"

[bladeXcrasher]

Blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

No one was asking for a handout. No one was asking for anything to be handed to them.

They were asking for a living wage. Not a great salary. Not to be rich.

Just to work a real job and not have to be on welfare to fucking eat.

At some point, you conservatives are going to run out of jobs that you feel its ok to be paid below a living wage to have. I hope yours is next quite frankly.

I have people at my company that are more than comfortable making 10.50 an hour. They don't want more money because they don't want more responsibility. The Aldi market by my house pays more than that.

The people asking for a universal wage are asking for a handout.

[Masark]

They really can't keep doing the things you listed. They will run themselves out of a market if they move everything to other countries, automate and cut employees to part-time. At some point they end up bankrupting themselves to keep profits high.

When no one can afford your product how do you stay in business?

Your error is in presuming that the people making the decisions care about that. They don't.

By the time those problems come home to roost, they'll have already made their millions, retired, and fucked off to The Bahamas to sip umbrella drinks whilst surrounded by scantily clad women/men, so why would they care if their former employer or former nation goes bankrupt?

[PassingBy]

Your error is in presuming that the people making the decisions care about that. They don't.

By the time those problems come home to roost, they'll have already made their millions, retired, and fucked off to The Bahamas to sip umbrella drinks whilst surrounded by scantily clad women/men, so why would they care if their former employer goes bankrupt?

Well they might wait till the company that they are running is on the verge of bankruptcy, use their political connections to scare and blackmail government to bail them out since they are "too big to fall", and give themselves huge bonuses, while the companies are facing multibillion losses.

Without actually giving a fuck about thousands of people that need to be let go to cut costs, and optimize the business.

Oh and while they are at it - call the people that want to get a decent pay for their honest jobs asking for handouts, wellfare leeches and so on.

That is quite ironic.