The Great American Lie: Work Earns Living Wage

[Bodakane]

I get why people don't trust the government. What I don't get is what makes big business more trustworthy. There are reasons for minimum wages, unions, labor laws, safety regulations, etc- specifically that businesses have a long and storied history of fucking people to increase their profits. History has proven over and over again that businesses can't just go unchecked.

Anyway, off to bed

The most ridiculous part is that the only reason the government isn't trustable is because they are bought and paid for by the companies these people trust implicitly. Its kind of insane really.

The US founding fathers were smart enough to provide safe guards against corruptible power in the government. They, however, did not foresee the power that money would have to corrupt our government.

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I am sad to hear that, it must really suck to face all that...

But that also sounds like life in general was stacked against you and has little to do with your country. The same can happen in Holland, which has more social elements that don't help in a situation like that. And god knows how much worse we would be off in 2/3 of the rest of the countries in the world in a situation like that.

Well, in any case I hope you get out of the shit soon and have a better outlook.

I am out and my outlook is fine. I'm not unique. Life wasn't stacked against me, the wealthy were. The wealthy devised the loan scandals. The wealthy but small businesses out of work causing me to lose money based on my job after my business folded. The wealthy burst the housing bubble at the same time they decided to triple the price of gas which raised the price of everything and took away people's buying power.

People who have made it, did so because they worked hard AND/OR got lucky. There are more people who work harder than you or me and fail then there are people who do all that and make it. No one makes it just by only working hard.

[Machismo]

So effing what?

I had 2 jobs while going to school. None of that was harder than when I lost my house and my business while also having a family. In college you're just starting out and working towards something. You have hope and goal. Lose it all or never any of that to begin with, then tell me about money struggles.

Are you really trying to get into a pissing contest? Really?

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All of these countries are very heavily unionized.



I get why people don't trust the government. What I don't get is what makes big business more trustworthy. There are reasons for minimum wages, unions, labor laws, safety regulations, etc- specifically that businesses have a long and storied history of fucking people to increase their profits. History has proven over and over again that businesses can't just go unchecked.

Anyway, off to bed

Yes, so unionize.

I never said big business is more trustworthy. I don't want either to have power over me. In the case of government, that often involves a guy with a gun. If a business screws people over, stop using that business. You cannot do the same when the government screws you over.

[Bodakane]

Are you really trying to get into a pissing contest? Really?

Says the guy that told everyone his experience was as bad as other people's who've been poor.....apparently in some people, the hypocrite bone is connected to the typing bone.

[Machismo]

The display of intelligence from you, it's mind blowing..

The simple fact is this, most people are in the financial position they are in, because of the choices they (or their parents) have made in life. We want to blame companies, but that is usually misdirected. The business is not forcing you to patronize them. Your employer is not forcing you to work for them.

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The most ridiculous part is that the only reason the government isn't trustable is because they are bought and paid for by the companies these people trust implicitly. Its kind of insane really.

The US founding fathers were smart enough to provide safe guards against corruptible power in the government. They, however, did not foresee the power that money would have to corrupt our government.

- - - Updated - - -



I am out and my outlook is fine. I'm not unique. Life wasn't stacked against me, the wealthy were. The wealthy devised the loan scandals. The wealthy but small businesses out of work causing me to lose money based on my job after my business folded. The wealthy burst the housing bubble at the same time they decided to triple the price of gas which raised the price of everything and took away people's buying power.

People who have made it, did so because they worked hard AND/OR got lucky. There are more people who work harder than you or me and fail then there are people who do all that and make it. No one makes it just by only working hard.

How did your mortgage payment magically go up, if it was not an ARM? Did you miss a payment, Was it a hybrid loan?

[Bodakane]

The simple fact is this, most people are in the financial position they are in, because of the choices they (or their parents) have made in life. We want to blame companies, but that is usually misdirected. The business is not forcing you to patronize them. Your employer is not forcing you to work for them.

Awesome, I look forward to see you never complaining about anything again since everything is a choice.

[Deleted]

The most ridiculous part is that the only reason the government isn't trustable is because they are bought and paid for by the companies these people trust implicitly. Its kind of insane really.

The US founding fathers were smart enough to provide safe guards against corruptible power in the government. They, however, did not foresee the power that money would have to corrupt our government.

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I am out and my outlook is fine. I'm not unique. Life wasn't stacked against me, the wealthy were. The wealthy devised the loan scandals. The wealthy but small businesses out of work causing me to lose money based on my job after my business folded. The wealthy burst the housing bubble at the same time they decided to triple the price of gas which raised the price of everything and took away people's buying power.

People who have made it, did so because they worked hard AND/OR got lucky. There are more people who work harder than you or me and fail then there are people who do all that and make it. No one makes it just by only working hard.

Good to hear that it's going better now.

One word of (unasked for) advice: let your frustrations go. The world, and especially the human race, isnt perfect. Just accept how it is and do your best in the current system. People with wealth always had- and always will have control. Just get the best out of your life in any case.

[Machismo]

Says the guy that told everyone his experience was as bad as other people's who've been poor.....apparently in some people, the hypocrite bone is connected to the typing bone.

I never said my experience was as bad as everyone's. I said I was poor. You seem to want to put words into my mouth, but you failed. I knew a kid whose parents simply kicked him out at 13, and he lived in a tent for years. In no way do I think my plight was as bad as his.

As adorable as your attempted pissing contest is, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. You'll have to attend your pity party all by yourself.

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Awesome, I look forward to see you never complaining about anything again since everything is a choice.

I don't complain about my financial situation (or blame others), because I take responsibility for my actions. I was poor, and I was poor for a reason. I do not lament or regret that time, I'm proud of it.

[Mayhem]

So, compile that list of things that are actually needed, then compare its cost year by year.

Why should i? I already showed you the difference between what prices should be based on inflation and what they really are. Yet somehow you don´t see the difference for some reason.

I just explained how to do it. Take the continued increase up until 1968, and apply it ad infinitum.

I didn´t make the claim, i didn´t ask for an explaination on how to do it. You said it was unsustainable. You now have to show that it actually was unsustainable. We have numbers, gdp, employment, unemployment, whatever you need it´s there, show that the steady increase like the 30 years prior to 1968 was unsustainable. I mean, are you just guessing here?

[Bodakane]

How did your mortgage payment magically go up, if it was not an ARM? Did you miss a payment, Was it a hybrid loan?

They decided my home owner's insurance was no longer sufficient. They changed a minor rule in what they wanted. Without warning me or others, they negated numerous insurance policies and didn't tell anyone. Then, because all of a sudden people didn't have proper insurance plans, they tacked on their own plans which is what mortgage companies do if you don't have insurance. That policy cost $500/month. Now, I had no money to put a down payment on a new "proper" plan. Every month they changed my account representative so I couldn't get anyone to help me. It was one of many things they did that was underhanded which is why they lost the class action suit. Plus, what once cost me $25/week in gas to go to work and grocery shop now cost me $75/week thanks to the price hikes. In about a six month period $700-ish was added to my monthly budget through no fault of my own. I wasn't unique. There's a reason our economy tanked, you know.

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Good to hear that it's going better now.

One word of (unasked for) advice: let your frustrations go. The world, and especially the human race, isnt perfect. Just accept how it is and do your best in the current system. People with wealth always had- and always will have control. Just get the best out of your life in any case.

Again, i'm fine. But I'm also not gonna sit hear and have people tell me that poor people are lazy either.

[Machismo]

Why should i? I already showed you the difference between what prices should be based on inflation and what they really are. Yet somehow you don´t see the difference for some reason.



I didn´t make the claim, i didn´t ask for an explaination on how to do it. You said it was unsustainable. You now have to show that it actually was unsustainable. We have numbers, gdp, employment, unemployment, whatever you need it´s there, show that the steady increase like the 30 years prior to 1968 was unsustainable. I mean, are you just guessing here?

No you didn't, you showed cherry-picked data for a few items from a single year. That's a very dangerous means by which to justify legislation. That's why more data is better, to include more products and more years. Otherwise, youa re simply being disingenuous.

I did show how it's unsustainable. You support the idea of continued pay increased ad infinitum based on the increase up until 1968. It becomes mathematically unsustainable at some point. All you have to do, is take the graph and extrapolate it out ad infinitum, and you have an unsustainable situation. There are only two possible outcomes. Either inflation gets out of hand to handle the pay increase (which would force the pay to increase even faster, causing more inflation... and would continue), or people would earn more than the companies could afford to pay... and they would go under. You supported the idea of forced pay exceeding inflation and productivity, it's mathematically unsustainable.

[Bodakane]

I never said my experience was as bad as everyone's. I said I was poor. You seem to want to put words into my mouth, but you failed. I knew a kid whose parents simply kicked him out at 13, and he lived in a tent for years. In no way do I think my plight was as bad as his.

As adorable as your attempted pissing contest is, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. You'll have to attend your pity party all by yourself.

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I don't complain about my financial situation (or blame others), because I take responsibility for my actions. I was poor, and I was poor for a reason. I do not lament or regret that time, I'm proud of it.

You did in fact try to pass off your experience as comparable or worse to other's. Its why you brought it up. You basically said you've been poor and you made it so no reason no one else shouldn't either. Its fine to be wrong like you are but at least have the sack and conviction to admit what you were doing for crying out loud.

No, no Sport, don't complain about anything. Literally everything is a choice following your logic.

[Machismo]

They decided my home owner's insurance was no longer sufficient. They changed a minor rule in what they wanted. Without warning me or others, they negated numerous insurance policies and didn't tell anyone. Then, because all of a sudden people didn't have proper insurance plans, they tacked on their own plans which is what mortgage companies do if you don't have insurance. That policy cost $500/month. Now, I had no money to put a down payment on a new "proper" plan. Every month they changed my account representative so I couldn't get anyone to help me. It was one of many things they did that was underhanded which is why they lost the class action suit. Plus, what once cost me $25/week in gas to go to work and grocery shop now cost me $75/week thanks to the price hikes. In about a six month period $700-ish was added to my monthly budget through no fault of my own. I wasn't unique. There's a reason our economy tanked, you know.

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Again, i'm fine. But I'm also not gonna sit hear and have people tell me that poor people are lazy either.

So, your mortgage company screwed you, and you beat them in court. That means the system worked as it should. As for other costs going up, that's what happens. The additional costs were not the fault of some company, and you were responsible for them on your own.

[Shadowferal]

Some people don't know what being poor is like. Yet they have the utter gall to imagine that they know so much better than everyone else and that it's just laziness.

Fuckers are enslaved to the wealthy or wealthy themselves and simply want to continue to lie about how easy it is...

[Bodakane]

So, your mortgage company screwed you, and you beat them in court. That means the system worked as it should. As for other costs going up, that's what happens. The additional costs were not the fault of some company, and you were responsible for them on your own.

Yeah I beat them in court......I lost my house and got deeper into debt but hey those 2 $1500 checks make it all equal.

[Machismo]

You did in fact try to pass off your experience as comparable or worse to other's. Its why you brought it up. You basically said you've been poor and you made it so no reason no one else shouldn't either. Its fine to be wrong like you are but at least have the sack and conviction to admit what you were doing for crying out loud.

No, no Sport, don't complain about anything. Literally everything is a choice following your logic.

No, I never said it was worse, I merely showed that I was poor. You got butt hurt because you wanted to get into a pissing contest, and I had no intention of participating.

I have no problem complaining when someone tries to force their beliefs on me, because I do not try to force my beliefs onto them. I can complain about government overreach, because I do not support it. I do not complain about the consequences of my actions, because I take responsibility for them. I have no problem complaining about the consequences of your actions, because I had no control over them.

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Yeah I beat them in court......I lost my house and got deeper into debt but hey those 2 $1500 checks make it all equal.

I'd like to know which mortgage company, so I can look at the lawsuit.

[Mayhem]

No you didn't, you showed cherry-picked data for a few items from a single year. That's a very dangerous means by which to justify legislation. That's why more data is better, to include more products and more years. Otherwise, youa re simply being disingenuous.

What part of "what prices should be based on inflation and what they really are" was hard to understand? There´s no cherry picking. The numbers don´t add up, so obviously inflation isn´t the only factor at play, hence why you can´t base minimum wage only on inflation.

I did show how it's unsustainable. You support the idea of continued pay increased ad infinitum based on the increase up until 1968. It becomes mathematically unsustainable at some point. All you have to do, is take the graph and extrapolate it out ad infinitum, and you have an unsustainable situation. There are only two possible outcomes. Either inflation gets out of hand to handle the pay increase (which would force the pay to increase even faster, causing more inflation... and would continue), or people would earn more than the companies could afford to pay... and they would go under. You supported the idea of forced pay exceeding inflation and productivity, it's mathematically unsustainable.

You don´t know how this showing stuff works, do you? You saing "it´s unsustainable" isn´t the same as "show how it´s unsustainable". Go on, take the graph, extrapolate it out (i don´t know why you think 2016 is ad infinitum, i never said that but ok) and present the unsustainable situation. Obviously, it´s not that hard, so back up your claim then.

[Bodakane]

No, I never said it was worse, I merely showed that I was poor. You got butt hurt because you wanted to get into a pissing contest, and I had no intention of participating.

I have no problem complaining when someone tries to force their beliefs on me, because I do not try to force my beliefs onto them. I can complain about government overreach, because I do not support it. I do not complain about the consequences of my actions, because I take responsibility for them. I have no problem complaining about the consequences of your actions, because I had no control over them.

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I'd like to know which mortgage company, so I can look at the lawsuit.

lol, yeah you were just saying, you didn't mean anything or weren't implying anything...ok....

No, don't complain about government overreach its your choice to deal with it. You could always move or over throw the government and you choose not to. So don't complain.

Mine was Chase. I think its funny for a person so knowledgeable you haven't heard of the giant class action lawsuit that involved Chase, JP Morgan, etc.

[Machismo]

lol, yeah you were just saying, you didn't mean anything or weren't implying anything...ok....

No, don't complain about government overreach its your choice to deal with it. You could always move or over throw the government and you choose not to. So don't complain.

You said I was obviously not poor, I showed how I was. You then got in a tither because I was not as poor as you wanted me to be, which is absurd. You seem to be the sole arbiter on what being poor actually is, and want to get pissed at me when it's not good enough for you. Seriously, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Why can't I complain about government overreach? Are you even reading the shit you are typing at this point? I get it, you are angry, and want to blame everyone who disagrees with you. I'm going to complain when some asshat tries to force his beliefs onto me.

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What part of "what prices should be based on inflation and what they really are" was hard to understand? There´s no cherry picking. The numbers don´t add up, so obviously inflation isn´t the only factor at play, hence why you can´t base minimum wage only on inflation.

Since the adjusted rate went up at roughly an adjusted rate of $600 in 30 years from 1938-1968, if it would have continued, that would mean a minimum wage of roughly $19.50 in 2013. Now, extrapolate that out, and make sure to base it on the value of the dollar in 2013-2015, since everything moving forward would be based on that. Imagine how high that wage could get?



You don´t know how this showing stuff works, do you? You saing "it´s unsustainable" isn´t the same as "show how it´s unsustainable". Go on, take the graph, extrapolate it out (i don´t know why you think 2016 is ad infinitum, i never said that but ok) and present the unsustainable situation. Obviously, it´s not that hard, so back up your claim then.

Then base it on inflation. Oh wait, that's what my graph showed...

Do you want me to make an actual graph? Naw, I don't feel like making it, especially, when you can extrapolate it out ad infinitum. You have the parameters that you wanted, now just extend the graph. It would have to go ad infinitum, because that's what sustainable means. If I say it is not sustainable, that means it cannot continue on forever... which it cannot.

[Bodakane]

You said I was obviously not poor, I showed how I was. You then got in a tither because I was not as poor as you wanted me to be, which is absurd. You seem to be the sole arbiter on what being poor actually is, and want to get pissed at me when it's not good enough for you. Seriously, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Why can't I complain about government overreach? Are you even reading the shit you are typing at this point? I get it, you are angry, and want to blame everyone who disagrees with you. I'm going to complain when some asshat tries to force his beliefs onto me.

You thought being poor in college gave you some knowledge on the subject. Why is that, if you didn't think it was comparable and/or worse?

Um you said:

The simple fact is this, most people are in the financial position they are in, because of the choices they (or their parents) have made in life. We want to blame companies, but that is usually misdirected. The business is not forcing you to patronize them. Your employer is not forcing you to work for them.

That logic means a person shouldn't complain about something that is their fault. You dealing with government overreach is your fault because you chose not to move or overthrow the government. That is your logic.

[Mayhem]

Then base it on inflation. Oh wait, that's what my graph showed...

Ok, i´ve tried, you don´t get inflation.

Do you want me to make an actual graph? Naw, I don't feel like making it, especially, when you can extrapolate it out ad infinitum. You have the parameters that you wanted, now just extend the graph. It would have to go ad infinitum, because that's what sustainable means. If I say it is not sustainable, that means it cannot continue on forever... which it cannot.

No, you don´t need to make an graph, you need to show that it´s not working out. That minimum wage would be so huge by now that companies couldn´t afford to pay them. You know, some numbers behind your dubious claim.

Seriously, nothing can continue on forever. If that´s your point, well you´re right, it´s also completly meaningless.