Sex abuse victim in her 20s allowed to choose euthanasia in Holland

[Dendrek]

The biggest shame here is the girl is in her 20's with an underdeveloped brain and "depressed" and had her whole life ahead of her, and some shitbag doctor got behind the idea of committing suicide. Obviously this "doctor" should be brought up on charges. If she wants to commit suicide on her own, well that's tragic but it happens. But to see it get written down as "approved" by a doctor? What fucking era of human civilization are we in? Jesus Christ.

Yeah this totally isn't completely misrepresenting the story at all.

[Chicksdonthavewangs]

At least the feminists will have options after the Muslim rape train comes through

[Reeve]

There is a big difference when someone that is old enough to make that decision while we are talking about mentally a child. Legally we recognize adults as physically developed but mentally young adults 16-25 are mentally still children.

Nonsense. Legally we consider adults to be adults capable of adult decision making. If someone is old enough to decide to go off to war, they're old enough to decide their own life and death.

Now, I think such a person should have to go through some sort of informed consent process, so that they don't start killing themselves on a whim, simply because they're depressed. But I do think people should have the right to make their own decisions once they become adults.

[Daws]

A lot of people saying she was to young for professionals to state she couldn't be helped, well background information states that from about the age of five she was abused. That is 15+ years of dealing with the memories of abuse added to which doubtful the previous 5 years where particular good. Take a moment and imagine if that had been your life and then ask how many years constitutes a reasonable time frame to decide if continuing to live is the option for you. I think she knew exactly what she was doing and for her it was the right choice and people should respect that.

[Feeline10]

Yeah this totally isn't completely misrepresenting the story at all.

I'd say "enlighten us" but you've been trying desperately all thread to spin it another way and have failed. So, I've summed it up pretty accurately. A girl in her 20's who has an underdeveloped brain because she's still a kid thinks there's no way out, and some shitbag retard of a "doctor" approved the state killing her. Have I missed anything, champ?

[Mafic]

The problem I have is too many assumptions were made and that goes against the healthy care industry and science in general. Quality of life for someone that has barely experienced adult hood doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what lies ahead.

There is a reason why people take huge leaps with their development as adults going from 18-->25--->30--->40---->50 years of age. Even when fully matured your brain doesn't stop learning or forming new undestandings or change of point of views.

[Deleted]

Tragic, but if she truly wanted to die...better this way than other , far more messy ways that aren't 100% effective.

Also when you're past 18, you're an adult, all this crap about "still having a child's mind" is bullshit. Unless she was mentally retarded, and she was not, she's old enough to make that decision. Some people just can't cope.

There's no point to making her suffer and spend (or in this case, the healthcare system) untold amounts of money to prolong someone's pain for no reason.

[Tackhisis]

I'm concerned by an idea that resurfaces from time to time in this thread: that it is acceptable to kill mentally ill people, and that it is an act of mercy.

[Acidbaron]

Agreed.

A 20-is young adult doesn't understand life in its totality to determine what is quality of life when you never lived it in the first place as an adult for extended period of time.

- - - Updated - - -



There is a big difference when someone that is old enough to make that decision while we are talking about mentally a child. Legally we recognize adults as physically developed but mentally young adults 16-25 are mentally still children.

The problem you are proposing is what age is acceptable once we start throwing that complete arbitrary number around. 25? 30? 35? 40 is also still relatively young.

And on what would you base that age? and the argument because it feels better at that age is not an argument that's merely guessing.

In Belgium even a 5 year old can go for euthanasia because we are not monsters and it has happened before, we know when illness has gone too far to recover from and before the argument is made doctors give up too easily, people from surrounding nations come to Belgium because in our healthcare industry people are not given up upon even with cancer, there are plenty of people from the netherlands that was decided that it was not possible to cure that got helped here and even cured.

[Mafic]

Nonsense. Legally we consider adults to be adults capable of adult decision making. If someone is old enough to decide to go off to war, they're old enough to decide their own life and death.

Now, I think such a person should have to go through some sort of informed consent process, so that they don't start killing themselves on a whim, simply because they're depressed. But I do think people should have the right to make their own decisions once they become adults.

Legally I think it makes zero sense because human brain continue to develop well beyond physical maturity. This is why I advise anyone that is young to not join the military until after they finished college or trade school.

[Dendrek]

I'd say "enlighten us" but you've been trying desperately all thread to spin it another way and have failed. So, I've summed it up pretty accurately. A girl in her 20's who has an underdeveloped brain because she's still a kid thinks there's no way out, and some shitbag retard of a "doctor" approved the state killing her. Have I missed anything, champ?

I've failed according to you. My life is a sham. I'm going to be bed ridden until some merciful doctor decides to kill me. =/

[Reeve]

Legally I think it makes zero sense because human brain continue to develop well beyond physical maturity. This is why I advise anyone that is young to not join the military until after they finished college or trade school.

The human brain continues to develop your whole life.

[Khaza-R]

I don't have any problems with euthanasia.

However, when it comes to mental illnesses I do have a problem with how you would use science to objectively come to the point that there is no other solution/treatment for someone so young (hint : you cannot). So yeah, I find this incident both very troubling and dangerous.

[Acidbaron]

I'm concerned by an idea that resurfaces from time to time in this thread: that it is acceptable to kill mentally ill people, and that it is an act of mercy.

Go do yourself a favor and read up on how this procedure actually works and realize how comments like yours hold no connection to reality.

[Mafic]

A lot of people saying she was to young for professionals to state she couldn't be helped, well background information states that from about the age of five she was abused. That is 15+ years of dealing with the memories of abuse added to which doubtful the previous 5 years where particular good. Take a moment and imagine if that had been your life and then ask how many years constitutes a reasonable time frame to decide if continuing to live is the option for you. I think she knew exactly what she was doing and for her it was the right choice and people should respect that.

The lack of perspective and looking back in time...15 years may seem a lot to those that are young but to those that are older that is a drop in the bucket. Again...if someone is 60+ years old they have three more life times to decide quality of life if they are terminally ill versus a 20 something young adult that lacks the perspective and experience of adult hood.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't have any problems with euthanasia.

However, when it comes to mental illnesses I do have a problem with how you would use science to objectively come to the point that there is no other solution/treatment for someone so young (hint : you cannot). So yeah, I find this incident both very troubling and dangerous.

Yeah we are not talking about someone that is really old with a terminal illness that chooses hospice or defies doctors orders to keep smoking despite being 80 years old. The assumption quality of life of a young 20's adult could not improve is not really convincing given the power of wisdom and experiencing life provides.

[Deleted]

13 pages...0 compelling arguments that a person that is suffering and is at the end of their rope should be forced to continue suffering because science may one day find something to help her. And in the meantime?

[Mafic]

The human brain continues to develop your whole life.

Brain development reaches its apex mid 20's. Continued changes are possible throughout your life because the brain isn't rigid but very pliable to alter synapses.

[Reeve]

Brain development reaches its apex mid 20's. Continued changes are possible throughout your life because the brain isn't rigid but very pliable to alter synapses.

I know certainly the way my mind thinks about things has changed significantly from my mid-20s, and continues to change. I know my mother's mind thinks about problems in a very different way now than 20 years ago. And certainly my grandfather, suffering from dementia, thinks very differently now than 5 years go.

Why should the cutoff arbitrarily be 25 years old? And if we decide 25 is the age of mental maturity, shouldn't we change legal adulthood to 25 as well? Change the age of sexual consent, military enlistment, voting age, etc?

[Mafic]

13 pages...0 compelling arguments that a person that is suffering and is at the end of their rope should be forced to continue suffering because science may one day find something to help her. And in the meantime?

Dismissing a lot of the scientific arguments is easy when you don't want to see the other side of things. Again...science isn't about assuming or predicting the future. You can't make a model or roadmap of a person's future life with data you don't have and past data is based upon the trauma that happened in child hood.

[Phookah]

You're right that it's possible that her issues were temporary. The problem is that you would have her continue to live, suffer, and be treated until she got better, even if she never did. The possibility of her getting better is enough justification to prolong her suffering. And while I appreciate the humanitarian motivation behind this argument, it seems cruel. How long is long enough before it's ok for her to finally die?

From her perspective, the possibility of being happy at some point in the future, maybe, wasn't enough to justify her continued suffering.

Her perspective was tainted. If she truly wanted to kill herself and didn't want to live anymore, then she should have done it herself. I just can't justify giving the state or anything power over that.

I mean I suffer from debilitating back pain, to the point where there are some days I can't walk due to the sciatica and lower disks being swollen. I've had several surgeries and they don't really seem to help. I've laid in bed and wished for release, anything to stop the pain. Do you think I should be able to go and request death when I'm having a particularly hard day, or would you think that maybe the pain is clouding my judgement and anything I say might need to be taken with a grain of salt? I can tell you right now on a good day that I don't want to be dead, I just don't want the pain anymore and sometimes it feels like the only solution.

Besides the ethics for the doctor involved, how about if the person has family? Would it be fair for me to die and leave my 3 kids and wife behind? Do you think they could ever truly understand or forgive you? It's a difficult subject to agree on because of all the grey area regarding it ethically.

To be completely frank, I'm not really sure what my opinion is on this. I can think of situations where it seems cruel to deny a person death, and times when it seems foolish.