[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Manu9]

Got completely trashed on the dps by a fury warrior 6 lvls below me in EoA earlier...

I'm wondering a bit about the 102 talent row. I have First Blood at the moment, but if I swap for Felblade will it impact my single target dps that much? Rotationally it just means I'll not be doing any blade dances on bosses (bohoo, the best looking skill in the game and I won't use it much ) and Felblade works better together with Prepared and Momentum, right?

One you get Momentum and Demonic, group up with him again and rejoice! :P

[Baelroc]

I agree with the majority in saying that, now that Beta is out and it is unlikely (but not impossibile) that we will get major changes, our artifact seems a little lackluster in its golden traits: 2 of them are barely noticable (Rage and Anguish) and Inner Demon is very cool but scarcely effective, expecially in ST.

When you compare it to what other classes get, it's objective to say that we got the short end of the stick in that department... Oh well, we'll make do with what we have i guess

I've been screaming this for forever. After playing a few of the other classes this weekend and seeing their artifact traits contributing in some cases up to 20% of their dps (Shadow Priest), it makes me sad.

[The Archmage]

I've been screaming this for forever. After playing a few of the other classes this weekend and seeing their artifact traits contributing in some cases up to 20% of their dps (Shadow Priest), it makes me sad.

I am not just talking about dps boost... i am talking about how "meaningful" and impactful (and thus "cool") other traits are.

Take Arcane Mage as an example: the core spec is the same old single target cannon it always has been... up until the point where you get Arcane Rebound and Touch of the Magi and, all of a sudden... the spec becomes one of the best AoE bursters of the game, hands down, expecially when coupled with talents that before getting those traits you can pretty much ignore and after they become SO good it's almost exciting.

And many other examples like the one i provided come to mind.

I don't think it's a thing that we can "formally" complain about though: getting new and exciting stuff for classes with years and years of iteration is certainly easier than creating new stuff that needs to be tested, feedbacked, etc... we'll see how things go from here: demon hunters might be lacking artifact wise, but the class has constantly grown in solidity since its creation, so... i think we'll manage.

[Deleted]

I think it's stupid how lazy they are, with fixing Fel Barrage... It's a useless talent currently.
Besides that, i also think that with the nerf to demonic, they should make it 6seconds instead of 5secs - it'll make that extra Anni/DS in the rotation there.

[Vanyali]

I think it's stupid how lazy they are, with fixing Fel Barrage... It's a useless talent currently.
Besides that, i also think that with the nerf to demonic, they should make it 6seconds instead of 5secs - it'll make that extra Anni/DS in the rotation there.

We had fel barrage working for maybe two builds... it's a little early for they're too lazy to fix it.

[Soulfròst]

I was thinking about the "meh" factor of our artifact ability and traits last night. I'm also concerned about the talents still. There doesn't seem to be very many options for "builds." But, granted, I haven't played it at max level yet. I'm only 108 atm. Has anyone leveled and geared up to a comfortable spot where all artifact traits are unlocked? Perhaps it doesn't come full circle until you've obtained everything?

[Deleted]

We had fel barrage working for maybe two builds... it's a little early for they're too lazy to fix it.

I mean, with the refund of charges. Like, why would they remove the NYI and call it completed, if its not tested properly AND not fixing it in a couple of builds. Note how almost no changes have been made to DH the last 2 builds. Just saying mate.

However, to answer my other suggestion - what do you think of that?

[Vanyali]

There are a few builds, but with the synergy right now there's only one build for most serious things - Prepared Demonic Momentum.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, with the refund of charges. Like, why would they remove the NYI and call it completed, if its not tested properly AND not fixing it in a couple of builds. Note how almost no changes have been made to DH the last 2 builds. Just saying mate.

However, to answer my other suggestion - what do you think of that?

I believe it was bugged last build; it wasn't proc'ing off anything. We're here to test it properly as well, so that's just a weird statement.

5 seconds is fine, you just have to pool before entering / have artifact traits for full use. Doesn't much matter either way 5 or 6 though.

[Dimzum]

Vanyali, watch a couple of your newer videos. Almost looks like you updated your Weak Auras from the ones I have. Mind sharing the strings for them?

[Vanyali]

Vanyali, watch a couple of your newer videos. Almost looks like you updated your Weak Auras from the ones I have. Mind sharing the strings for them?

They should be the same ones as the ones in the thread, but I'll double-check and reupload.. fixed a few things so they'd trigger properly on only a Havoc DH because I went to my venge and oops :B

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Just tried to read the last 2 pages of the Beta thread on battle.net, and i just... couldn't. I check every day to see if people have started being constructive and working off each other's ideas instead of attacking anyone who disagrees and it only looks worse the more i look at it.

Forget Beta, I don't want to try and put feedback in that little cesspit. I'll just stay here where the feedback and discussion can be constructively critical without devolving into accusations that people who've been testing since Alpha "clearly don't understand the class".

Just, wow.

[nox597]

I have seen a lot of people complaining about the DH's survivability and sustain while leveling... What are some things we can do to mitigate that, once DHs become available on live? I was thinking about the Mark of Supreme Doom off Kazzak, and working on getting professions up ASAP (Probably alchemy and engineering... Health Potions being 40% more effective, and some of the Engineering items being useful)...

Items like the Ever Blooming Frond, or Ba'ruun's Bountiful Bloom, or generic health potions, or Shield-o-tronic Shields.

Are there any other good items that give leech or anything that we could start stockpiling?

Edit: Looks like Ever Blooming Frond and Ba'ruun's Bountiful Bloom are going to be Draenor only soon... But, they are still decent examples.

[Manu9]

I have seen a lot of people complaining about the DH's survivability and sustain while leveling... What are some things we can do to mitigate that, once DHs become available on live? I was thinking about the Mark of Supreme Doom off Kazzak, and working on getting professions up ASAP (Probably alchemy and engineering... Health Potions being 40% more effective, and some of the Engineering items being useful)...

Items like the Ever Blooming Frond, or Ba'ruun's Bountiful Bloom, or generic health potions, or Shield-o-tronic Shields.

Are there any other good items that give leech or anything that we could start stockpiling?

Edit: Looks like Ever Blooming Frond and Ba'ruun's Bountiful Bloom are going to be Draenor only soon... But, they are still decent examples.

There's one like them for the Broken Isle.

Also about the survival issue, would I love an ability to call in the souls, or instead have an on demand heal instead of one that is a bit RNG? Sure I would, but it's not as bad as people make it sound imo.

My own personal idea is something like, remove the healing aspect from DA, because let's be honest, that basically is what, 3%? And replace Desperate Instincts with a leech spell or something. Then you would have 3 solid choices, and DA would still be basically as is.

An immunity spell, a more steady usable heal/leech, and lastly Soul Rending as we know and love it.

I can see all talents being used if balanced properly, including a bleed glaive combo, but the only one that I saw no one takes, ever, is Demonic Reborn, that needs to be replaced imo.

[Deleted]

Animation canceling is apparently gonna be fixed next build.

[Vanyali]

Animation canceling is apparently gonna be fixed next build.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YFICjY5.jpg[IMG]

heh heh heh...

let's see how try #4 goes to make it not a thing anymore

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

heh heh heh...

let's see how try #4 goes to make it not a thing anymore

I'm really glad there are sick bastards like yourself who'll take them to task.

There's just got to be a point though: where it becomes far too tedious to honestly even bother. It was easy before by the looks of it (VR + Glide, done) and they've clearly made it more and more difficult, though not impossible (obviously). But at what point will it become so tedious as to warrant even the hardest of the core to say "yeah no, fuck this shit".

I reckon when it's actually impossible to pull off will it reach that point. Incoming "Glide is no longer usable within 1 GCD of using VR" or some bananas shit like it.

[Deleted]

Well, I've been trying out Felblade with Momentum and Prepared, and I must say I like the way it feels. And it helps as well with Felblade hitting like a truck! I'm having no problems with my fury, that's for sure!

One issue I've had with Felblade is the fact that it sometimes deals the damage but doesn't do the charge bit...

[Keltas]

So if animation cancelling IS fixed, would that make the momentum row more balanced?

Mostly, would you consume a fel rush with every vengeful retreat to get back in (and waste half your buff time), or would it be more efficient to walk back in? Most bosses are definitely NOT large enough that you can charge or retreat and still be in melee. Plus you get cleaved by 90% of the bosses in dungeons if you try to charge from max melee behind them, since you always end in front.


I hope so, I actually don't mind momentum when I'm doing retreat>rush>back to normal rotation. If it's got competition for times that isn't viable (always), then it'll be set.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

So if animation cancelling IS fixed, would that make the momentum row more balanced?

Mostly, would you consume a fel rush with every vengeful retreat to get back in (and waste half your buff time), or would it be more efficient to walk back in? Most bosses are definitely NOT large enough that you can charge or retreat and still be in melee. Plus you get cleaved by 90% of the bosses in dungeons if you try to charge from max melee behind them, since you always end in front.


I hope so, I actually don't mind momentum when I'm doing retreat>rush>back to normal rotation. If it's got competition for times that isn't viable (always), then it'll be set.

I rather hope so too. When Demon Hunter was touted as "super mobile" and then Momentum was put on the alpha the first thing i thought of was Vengeful Retreat into Fel Rush playstyles, and envisioning it in my head looked *awesome*. If Momentum was changed to only increase the damage of Fel Rush after VR usage, i would be ecstatic (and might find the talent a bit more interesting, personally).

[Vanyali]

So if animation cancelling IS fixed, would that make the momentum row more balanced?

Mostly, would you consume a fel rush with every vengeful retreat to get back in (and waste half your buff time), or would it be more efficient to walk back in? Most bosses are definitely NOT large enough that you can charge or retreat and still be in melee. Plus you get cleaved by 90% of the bosses in dungeons if you try to charge from max melee behind them, since you always end in front.


I hope so, I actually don't mind momentum when I'm doing retreat>rush>back to normal rotation. If it's got competition for times that isn't viable (always), then it'll be set.

Most likely it'd just change the prio to Felblade rather than First Blood, though that may be the case already with recent nerfs. Or, if you're in a guild group, telling your tank to place a boss against a wall and having the same effect, when possible. Retreat --> Rush is completely useless