[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Sangomah]

Excuse my ignorance but I'm yet to find a beta key so I have a question about playing with momentum: I was under the impression that felblade was used to get back in range after VR, but if bloodlet is the better talent on that row are we just supposed to walk back to the target after vaulting away?

Certain talents work better with others.

Felblade is one of the standard picks in the Demonic setup.

Another thing.

Did they change how MotG interacted with Bloodlet? Cause in the last raid test, the bleed tick did not increase, it just exploded in the full dmg and then added the new DoT.

TO explain in detail. If I hit Throw Glaive for 100k, Bloodlet would do 200k over the duration. If I specced into MotG and used both charges straight away, I would hit for 100k, bloodlet starts, 1 tick, Throw Glaive hits for 100k, 200k pops straight away, and another DoT would start ticking for 200k.

Will double check once I get on Beta if it changed.

- - - Updated - - -

Just checked, and it still works like I explained above.

[Deleted]

So instead of adding the remaining damage to the duration, it adds it to the next tick of the dot? The talent description is ambiguous...is it a bug or a feature?

[Sangomah]

So instead of adding the remaining damage to the duration, it adds it to the next tick of the dot? The talent description is ambiguous...is it a bug or a feature?

I have had this ddiscussion on stream.

MotG is a pvp talent. It has a 50% slow tied to it, AND it gives you extra burst.

MotG does not currently give extra dot dmg. If its intended or not I dont know, but the tooltip is terrible. (wrote feedback on this in 5 or 6 different posts back in Alpha as well)

[Deleted]

Is the momentum build the strongest in this moment?
Any other viable builds?
Thank you!

[Sangomah]

Is the momentum build the strongest in this moment?
Any other viable builds?
Thank you!

Pure solo target where you pop Heroism on the pull and want to burn as much as possible at the start, like Krosus, Chaos Blades, Demon Reborn and Nemesis seems to win out.

Also on fights with 1 subtype, where Nemesis shines, it might be the best setup as wsell.

For add fights with several different subtypes and a lot of target switchingwhere you can get Momentum out of your natural movement (Fel rush to an add) MDemonic might be the best. Elrethe Renferal is a good example here

[Deleted]

Thank you!
But Fel Mastery and Prepared are the strongest Tier 1 + 2 talents?

[Paxz19]

Did anyone note that if you death sweep with one second left in demonic you can get an extra 2.7 seconds of meta from nowhere which means two annihilations where you would normally lose demonic. Wasn't able to read through this whole thread to find if it had been talked about already.

[Xss]

Why does most of the Havoc guides I've seen say Eye Beam should only be kept on CD during AoE? I'll have to test exact numbers when I get home from work, but each tick of damage is a guaranteed crit and by the end of the Eye Beam channel, you're over 100k damage done. Why wouldn't you keep this on CD for single-target fights, as well?

Pool Fury when Eye Beam is about to be off CD > Eye Beam > Chaos Strike > Demon's Bite to generate fury > Chaos Strike > Repeat?

Any reason why Eye Beam isn't used on single target?

[ufta]

Does Bloodlet snapshot from Momentum (or anything?)

[Vanyali]

Why does most of the Havoc guides I've seen say Eye Beam should only be kept on CD during AoE? I'll have to test exact numbers when I get home from work, but each tick of damage is a guaranteed crit and by the end of the Eye Beam channel, you're over 100k damage done. Why wouldn't you keep this on CD for single-target fights, as well?

Pool Fury when Eye Beam is about to be off CD > Eye Beam > Chaos Strike > Demon's Bite to generate fury > Chaos Strike > Repeat?

Any reason why Eye Beam isn't used on single target?

Annhilation damage > Eye Beam ST

Chaos Strike damage > Eye Beam ST (unless you have anguish, then EB does more)

Does Bloodlet snapshot from Momentum (or anything?)

It doesn't snapshot; the 20% damage is just there from throw glaive, and thus added to the bleed applied the same way it would for a crit vs. non-crit.

[therayeffect]

I'm looking at this simulation for Chaos Blades: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...lents/110.html and it has the talents for 1/1/3/na/1/3/1. (L->R) I'm surprised to see Bloodlet there since I figured Felblade would be great. I'm curious why we'd use Bloodlet. I know a lot of things are still in testing.

[Vanyali]

I'm looking at this simulation for Chaos Blades: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...lents/110.html and it has the talents for 1/1/3/na/1/3/1. (L->R) I'm surprised to see Bloodlet there since I figured Felblade would be great. I'm curious why we'd use Bloodlet. I know a lot of things are still in testing.

Bloodlet does more damage.

[ufta]

It doesn't snapshot; the 20% damage is just there from throw glaive, and thus added to the bleed applied the same way it would for a crit vs. non-crit.

Does the addition of TG+Bloodlet to the rotation affect Momentum usage/planning?
What I'm getting at is that, according to the sim, TG+Bloodlet accounts for a whopping 17% of total dmg. I would assume, then, that you'd want to keep it on cooldown. I would also think that you'd want all of your TGs to be 20% larger. But how does the cooldown of TG interact with Momentum windows?
Should you delay one or the other if your next Momentum window was off-sync with the next TG?

[therayeffect]

Bloodlet does more damage.

I imagine they still plan to do another tuning pass since some of the talents are combo'd with ones that don't quite makes sense conceptually. You'd think we'd want Master of the Glaive with Bloodlet but we don't. Hmm, maybe they'll fix it. The stuff people are saying about explosion for double glaive use might be some scary AoE damage, if it's not a bug.

[Sangomah]

Our aoe is already good. Bloodlet explosions dont add much.

That said...

Bloodlet does more damage with felblade + fury gain?

[Dimzum]

So what is the priority with Bloodlet for a momentum build?

Annihiatlion > TG > Chaos Strike > EB

If you were going to do a VR > EB > FR combo, would you do VR > TG > EB >FR?

Assuming single targer

[Sangomah]

Keep dot up > chaos strikes > demon blades.
Max fury - 10 = Eye beam > annhi x 3 > sweep > annhi x 2

Last one depends on crits and/or contained fury.

[Shirofune]

Keep dot up > chaos strikes > demon blades.
Max fury - 10 = Eye beam > annhi x 3 > sweep > annhi x 2

Last one depends on crits and/or contained fury.

Is Death Sweep worth using at all in ST? I know it was buffed, but still makes more sense to me to spam Annihilation.

[therayeffect]

Could I have some who are more theory crafting savy or access to beta chime in on this? I made a post on the previous page and I'm really interested in knowing how the legendary ring AND raid tier set influences the rotation / talent build.

I don't think anyone has the full raid tier set and the legendary ring to actually test it. That said, I do think it's pretty safe to assume the playstyle of DH will change greatly depending on gear and the encounter (which is probably their goal). Things seem a little clunky right now since it's early still but I'm liking the concept of DH so far outside of the little I know of Momentum.

[Sangomah]

@tiese At the moment, we have no idea.

We only got to test the ring on the Alpha in the last 2 weeks and we had no set bonuses to work with as raid gear was unobtainable. This is something we won't know until we actually get our hands on the tier gear!