[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Jekuto]

VR into eye beam, fel rush back when EB is finished (assuming BF; it no BF, you can run back if you're close enough but you'll lose those ~2s anyway). Your next FR should have a FB saved for it, as should your next VR. Then it repeats itself. If there's any sort of wall, incline, bump in the ground, or other that might impede VR or FR use those.

You can also, of course, use the FR cancel, but that's something I'd be extraordinarily wary of making a mouse-macro for as it might be enough to be slapped for cheating, and it's harder to do without it.

Seems like VR moves me too far away for Eye Beam to really connect. :\

[Vanyali]

Seems like VR moves me too far away for Eye Beam to really connect. :\

sometimes you have to take a step or two forward, yes. It's being weird with range this patch.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

sometimes you have to take a step or two forward, yes. It's being weird with range this patch.

Say what? VR has a chance to move you *further* than 20 yards away? That always a thing? Always looked considerably shorter than Eye Beam's maximum range.

[Vanyali]

Say what? VR has a chance to move you *further* than 20 yards away? That always a thing? Always looked considerably shorter than Eye Beam's maximum range.

yeah, sometimes it now flings you out of EB range, if only just. provided you're on perfectly flat ground, of course, as any incline makes it shorter or longer.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

yeah, sometimes it now flings you out of EB range, if only just. provided you're on perfectly flat ground, of course, as any incline makes it shorter or longer.

well that's a little inconvenient i suppose, but i'll do myself the favor of remembering that VR wasn't specifically made to facilitate some sexy ass VR into Eye Beam hijinks.

What's the word on Fel Barrage? Proc chance still pretty shit?

[The Archmage]

well that's a little inconvenient i suppose, but i'll do myself the favor of remembering that VR wasn't specifically made to facilitate some sexy ass VR into Eye Beam hijinks.

What's the word on Fel Barrage? Proc chance still pretty shit?

I don't think it got changed, it would be in the notes i guess...

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I don't think it got changed, it would be in the notes i guess...

They only ever talked about the proc chance in the theorycrafting thread, never been specified in the tooltip (so far as i can tell, happy to be corrected).

Would still be awesome to hear what other testers think would help give Fel Barrage a better feel so that Demonic isn't the only one people enjoy the *feel* of in comparison to the other 2.

[Racthoh]

VR putting you out of eye beam range could be a latency issue?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

VR putting you out of eye beam range could be a latency issue?

Wouldn't that be something, to have both Fel Rush AND Vengeful Retreat affected by latency. The pain would be real, lol.

[Mefistophelis]

I was wondering, how do the Legion quest reward items feel stat wise? Is it worth going the extra mile and craft/grind gear in the pre-patch?

[Elennoko]

So what would the most 'optimal' talent setup be after the last build?

Blind Fury - Prepared - Felblade - Soul Rending - Momentum - Chaos Cleave - Demonic? Assuming you don't have speedy fingers/don't wanna risk killing yourself with FR cancelling.

[Orloth]

yeah, sometimes it now flings you out of EB range, if only just. provided you're on perfectly flat ground, of course, as any incline makes it shorter or longer.

You should be able to preempt that easily. Just move into the boss's hitbox before you VR, so that part of the jump is back through the boss. Right?

[The Archmage]

You should be able to preempt that easily. Just move into the boss's hitbox before you VR, so that part of the jump is back through the boss. Right?

Or tend a little to the left/right, so that you don't go in a straight line away from the boss, thus reducing the distance.

[nox597]

I wonder if the "Ghosts in the Dark" achievement will change at all, going into Legion... Or if it will have anything special for Demon Hunters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcsmAmAJwc for anyone not familiar (not my video, something I found with a quick google)

[Accendor]

The problem is every other class is finished w/o artifact. I know that DH is fresh and sht, but it's still too raw imo.

Arms Warrior is literally unplayable without the Warbreaker talent from the Artifact, also the whole Specc changes drastically as soon as you spend talent points on Thoradin's Might and Precise strikes and Exploit the Weakness. Also as soon as you get the legendary that makes Mortal Strike create 15 Rage instead of COSTING rage practically all talents and abilities you got need to be reevaluated and whole interactions change. At that point you are basically playing a complete different (much much BETTER) specc. DH is not even close so this point. Not even close.
And this is only one example, I am pretty sure there are many other speccs with similiar problems.

[Vanyali]

You should be able to preempt that easily. Just move into the boss's hitbox before you VR, so that part of the jump is back through the boss. Right?

yeah, i just keep forgetting because it wasn't an issue prior to this patch >_<

- - - Updated - - -

So what would the most 'optimal' talent setup be after the last build?

Blind Fury - Prepared - Felblade - Soul Rending - Momentum - Chaos Cleave - Demonic? Assuming you don't have speedy fingers/don't wanna risk killing yourself with FR cancelling.

I do this even without animation canceling of FR, just means you gotta be smart about when and where you're doing what /shrug

[neosen]

I think that what Vanyali is having a hard time to understand (and me aswell, to be honest) is why you think that a cd, no matter how major or lore important, should drastically (or hell, even minimally) impact the mechanics of a class, since litterally there is no cd in the game that does that.

Time warp, arcane power, combustion, icy veins, rapid fire, pillars of frost, incarnation, dark soul, avenger's wrath... i cannot think of a single cd that does anything else beside simply giving more stats or more flat percentage boosts.

In this regard, DH's Meta is already extremely special, since transforming happens through an amazing 40yd range jump linked to an AoE stun + damage, which is nothing to sneeze at; additionally, the damage boost comes not only in the form of a flat gcd reduction, but also in a unique complete transformation of the core abilities that, although remaining functionally and visually the same, alter drastically the priorities on which you should spend the globals on, introducing the class to premeditated mechanics like resource pooling that have almost completely disappeared thanks to the game's simplification over the years.

@Jekuto: The problem in doing so is that you will clipp the buff, since both VR and FR provide that. The concept is trying to have as much uptime as possible, using the 2 abilities that provide it back to back obviously goes against that purpose.

Meanwhile heart of the wild one of the longest CDs in the game does exactly that.

AW changes ret paladin rotation a bit. there are tons of cooldowns that are not just flat damage buffs or stats...

I think the list you gave of all pure dps classes cooldowns (except incarnation) is very telling.

How weird the pure dps classes have less utility orientated cooldowns then hybrids.

[Vanyali]

Meanwhile heart of the wild one of the longest CDs in the game does exactly that.

AW changes ret paladin rotation a bit. there are tons of cooldowns that are not just flat damage buffs or stats...

I think the list you gave of all pure dps classes cooldowns (except incarnation) is very telling.

How weird the pure dps classes have less utility orientated cooldowns then hybrids.

Heart of the Wild is a talent, not a base cooldown. So is incarnation, for that matter; Beserk is better served as an example for feral / guardian.

[Warstar]

@wordup

When it comes to multi target is there a break point where First Blood will over take Felblade? Considering Balanced Blades seems like it would eventually up the value to being pretty awesome as well as the reduced fury seems like it would be equivalent to the fury gained from Felblade in a way. So, potentially would First Blood be a better DPS talent for dungeons since they're vastly made up of AoE encounters?

If that's so I'm guessing that if you take First Blood then you just weave BD into your rotation and use it on CD but, would that change with a 2 target fight since Chaos Cleave hits hard and has a potential for fury refund? Or does that not matter and you would still use BD on CD regardless of the number of mobs around you?

And, with Felblade what's the break point for using Blade Dance over Chaos Strike with Chaos Cleave?

[wordup]

@wordup

When it comes to multi target is there a break point where First Blood will over take Felblade? Considering Balanced Blades seems like it would eventually up the value to being pretty awesome as well as the reduced fury seems like it would be equivalent to the fury gained from Felblade in a way. So, potentially would First Blood be a better DPS talent for dungeons since they're vastly made up of AoE encounters?

If that's so I'm guessing that if you take First Blood then you just weave BD into your rotation and use it on CD but, would that change with a 2 target fight since Chaos Cleave hits hard and has a potential for fury refund? Or does that not matter and you would still use BD on CD regardless of the number of mobs around you?

And, with Felblade what's the break point for using Blade Dance over Chaos Strike with Chaos Cleave?

I think the frequency of the adds are as important as the number. I'd say at a rough estimate that 4-5 would be the point where you'd start to look at First Blood, but you'd need situations in which you're hitting adds with each Blade Dance for it to really pay off, which is somewhat of an issue as a talent that's overly focused on sustained AoE is notoriously lackluster.

In terms of when you have First Blood, there's a couple of breakpoints far down the line where it's worse than a CS (crit/mastery combos) so you wouldn't cast it outside of AoE, but generally speaking putting it in there as a spell on CD if you've taken First Blood is how you'd use it. Death Sweep is also really on the cusp since Annihilation resets are extremely valuable, and DS is so close in Fury that even at low crit levels it's something I'd probably err on the side of RNG with that you'll net more resets by just not Sweeping unless there's AoE.

With Chaos Cleave you're really gonna be looking at 4-5 to be spending on Blade Dance consistently.