[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Donovan4893]

Fel Eruption works pretty well with Chaos Blades and demon reborn, Cast chaos blade -fel eruption - meta - fel eruption - annihilation spam - chaos blades again and more annihilation spam till meta runs out. Too bad you cant get a third fel eruption during that second chaos blades without wasting some of it outside of meta.

[Vanyali]

Your "Cancer Build" has some striking similarities to my current casual build >.>

fite me IRL m8.

Although, now that i know Demon Reborn refunds all charges of Fel Barrage, it'll be between that and Unleashed Power most of the time.

It's cancer because it has no survivability and that irks me when solo'ing 5+ content.

But i'll fite you, i'll send in the cows m8.

I think MoTG would work better (assuming bloodlet) however; meta resets FBarrage once, MoTG doesn't ever stop.

[Deleted]

sounds like new build has made havoc almost completely unviable as a class,

agree, disagree?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

it doesn't proc off EB because EB is technically a spell, not an attack. It should be proc'ing off BD though.

Also, I built a build I'm calling cancer build for 2-target fights. It has zero survivability outside of meta, but does great on cleave.

Chaos Cleave - Demonic Appetite - Bloodlet - Soul Rending - Fel Eruption - MoTG - Fel Barrage


Fel Barrage procs are still low as shit so it gets rough, but I tried it in Neth's lair and was keeping up with a fury warr.. no clue on his gear, though. Was pulling decent numbers (lol 1min fights), so I assume not awful gear.

I dunno. I think it's a case of feast or famine. There doesn't seem to be an ICD as I've gone from 2 charges to 5 from a single Fury of the Illidari.

[Vanyali]

I dunno. I think it's a case of feast or famine. There doesn't seem to be an ICD as I've gone from 2 charges to 5 from a single Fury of the Illidari.

Yeh. Each qualifying attack has the same chance, iirc, so it can be really dumb.

[Deleted]

sounds like new build has made havoc almost completely unviable as a class,

agree, disagree?

Dunno about the math behind it, & lag for me on the beta has been SAVAGE, but from what I can gather it's not made much difference, what are you referring to specifically?

[Vanyali]

sounds like new build has made havoc almost completely unviable as a class,

agree, disagree?

It's just you.

Momentum build is bugged, Momentum build is not the only build available.

Demonic-Nemesis, Chaos Blades, Cancer Build (FU, I'm calling it that Una <3).. they're all viableish.

[Kaedis]

0-1min Nemesis - Meta - Nemesis Reset
1-2min Nemesis
2-3min No Nemesis
3-4min Nemesis
4+min Meta reset Nemesis
5+min Nemesis

You actually wouldn't have one at the 5 minute mark (you used it at 4m, so it won't be back up until 6m). Uptime depends on your meta CD, tbh. In general, the cycle will be:

5m Meta
0m-1m Nem 1 + meta reset
1m-2m Nem 2
2m-3m down
3m-4m Nem 3
4m-5m down
Repeat
Uptime: 60%

4m Meta
0m-1m Nem 1 + meta reset
1m-2m Nem 2
2m-3m down
3m-4m Nem 3
4m-5m meta reset + Nem 4
5m-6m down
6m-7m Nem 5
7m-8m down
Repeat
Uptime: 62.5%

3m Meta (3x Unleashed Demons relics)
0m-1m Nem 1 + meta reset
1m-2m Nem 2
2m-3m down
Repeat
Uptime: 66.7%

So at perfect uptime, you'll always be between 60 and 67%, over time. For the first 2 minutes, regardless of CD, you can hit 100% uptime, but it drops pretty quickly thereafter.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It's cancer because it has no survivability and that irks me when solo'ing 5+ content.

But i'll fite you, i'll send in the cows m8.

I think MoTG would work better (assuming bloodlet) however; meta resets FBarrage once, MoTG doesn't ever stop.

All ur cows belong to me. They're dairy cows now.

I didn't look very closely and saw you ran Bloodlet. I probably would've ran Felblade for more Chaos Cleave, but having that 3 target option outside of Blade Dance was probably pretty handy. Any way to test if Bloodlet procs Fel Barrage? Or is it safe to assume for now that it doesn't/ shouldn't (gonna go with the latter, that could be pretty OP).

Great point on MotG, kudos to you sir.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

All ur cows belong to me. They're dairy cows now.

I didn't look very closely and saw you ran Bloodlet. I probably would've ran Felblade for more Chaos Cleave, but having that 3 target option outside of Blade Dance was probably pretty handy. Any way to test if Bloodlet procs Fel Barrage? Or is it safe to assume for now that it doesn't/ shouldn't (gonna go with the latter, that could be pretty OP).

Great point on MotG, kudos to you sir.

I tried and didn't get any procs from Bloodlet earlier. I didn't include it in my list before because Throw Glaive already procs Fel Barrage (and it's not really an attack, just extra damage).

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I tried and didn't get any procs from Bloodlet earlier. I didn't include it in my list before because Throw Glaive already procs Fel Barrage (and it's not really an attack, just extra damage).

Yeah, I didn't think it would, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Just to get a bit of clarity: Fel Barrage damage is increased by every charge you have, correct? So that'd be 2000% of attack power Chaos damage that's affected by Mastery.

Is the only real complaint about it simply that the proc rate is a bit feast and famine currently?

[Sangomah]

The fact that it procs too little has always been the complaint afaik.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

The fact that it procs too little has always been the complaint afaik.

Sounds like the issue now is that procs are feast or famine. Sometimes you'll be swimming in them sometimes you're waiting a couple minutes.

Do you guys think the proc chance could stand to be raised or the recharge time lowered a bit to make proc famines a little less awful?

[Deleted]

what is the best order to fill artifact currently?


also with the new build is eye beam in the ST rotation or just aoe now?

with anguish from eye beam and the increased EB damage it should be ST viable ?

[Mannic]

what is the best order to fill artifact currently?


also with the new build is eye beam in the ST rotation or just aoe now?

with anguish from eye beam and the increased EB damage it should be ST viable ?

This is the best way to fill out your artifact as posted a few pages back basically get meta reduction and max fury

http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...P0AT9QE_cBUyAQ

As far as I know the last build didn't change anything with Eye Beam so its still mainly used for AoE I do believe Van said a bit back with anguish etc the dmg isn't really as noticeable so you can cast it.

[TKTank]

300k at pre raid levels? Seems high, I think Van was saying they were getting 200k or so at 840?

Either way, it does look like that at the very least eruption will be viable.

So, considering feedback and the following scenario:

- 200k overall DPS;
- ST fight;
- 5min Fight;
- 750k Fel Eruptions (considering 50% CC);
- Momentum at 50% uptime, using 80% of the 4sec buff on target (due to movement in and out, lag...);
- Nemesis at 63% uptime (median-ish from worst to best case)

Fel Eruption - 750k/35s = 21,4k DPS + 5k DPS (from 2 extra FEs, due to Meta reset) = 26,4k DPS added > 13,2% increase in overall DPS;

Momentum - 1,2*0,5*0,8 = 5% increase in overall DPS;

Nemesis - 1,15*0,63 = 7,3% increase in overall DPS.

While expected that a big nuke would be better at lower gear and % mods would catch up with higher end, are those numbers correct? Didn't expect such a margin...

Also, this is strictly single target...with a second target already present FE would drop in half and Momentum would skyrocket to 9ish%. Nemesis is somewhat muddy, depending on type of targets and time of deaths.

[Deleted]

Seems good for Fel Eruption but for Momentum and Nemesis i would probably do the following maths :

Momentum - 0,20*0,5*0,8 = 8% increase

Nemesis - 0,15*0,63 = 9,5% increase

I may be wrong but i see no reason puting a 1 in your percentage unless you are using it as a increase of a third value which is not the case here.

[Vanyali]

This is the best way to fill out your artifact as posted a few pages back basically get meta reduction and max fury

http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...P0AT9QE_cBUyAQ

As far as I know the last build didn't change anything with Eye Beam so its still mainly used for AoE I do believe Van said a bit back with anguish etc the dmg isn't really as noticeable so you can cast it.

Wasn't me who said that; I think it was Kaedis. Based on no math at all I don't think EB is worth ST, even with anguish.

[Deleted]

thats ashame really liked the EB animation was hopin to be able to use it more

[Segerr]

Two videos from the normal emerald nightmare.

*I know I f up a lot during the fight, its hard to play with 250ms*.

Btw anyone else having issues with Felblade not bringing me back to the boss hitbox (see my videos)?





https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PAZFgVKraqCTw97Q