[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[Elamahpla]

id be scared to use flame crash, there could be another tyrant lurking in legion, just waiting for you to take a 1mm step

[Deliverer]

I'd say Agonizing flames, fallout, felblade, fracture, fel eruption, fel devastation, soul barrier for a mix of ST and aoe and ofc soul barrier. Blade turning maybe for ST now maybe.

I love the new soul barrier tho, you can avoid soul cleave on ST now pretty much.

[Whiteboard]

What stats should I be shooting for, with a vengeance DH? I'm tabbing back through the pages here to find it as I go, but in case I can get an answer before I find it..

[Orloth]

It was Mastery/Haste, but the new build may have changed that.

[Deliverer]

right now i'm going all out on haste then mastery > crit but it depends on the fight.

[Orloth]

The sim that suggested Haste > Mastery had Demon Spikes protecting against all damage, FtD and Fracture together, and the Tier set. I'm not sure it's viable anymore.

[flzk]

whats currently the best direction for the artifact talents ? fueled by pain seems a bit underwhelming

[Elamahpla]

i REALLY don't like that fracture is on the same tier as ftd, youre basically sitting at full pain spamming soul cleave. this feels really awkward because you basically need ftd, but you also want a pain dump.

[Orloth]

FtD increases Demon Spikes uptime for high physical damage fights, while Fracture increases burst healing. It's the kind of differentiation that the talent system is supposed to support. FtD may need a buff, now that it can't be used with Fracture, but I don't think it's horrible that they are on the same tier.

The new Soul Barrier seems really interesting. Has anyone given it a test drive yet?

[FenixAU]

I'm more bothered by Fracture being on the same tier as Soul Rending.

Losing the 50% leech on Meta is really shitty.

[Delimit]

FtD increases Demon Spikes uptime for high physical damage fights, while Fracture increases burst healing. It's the kind of differentiation that the talent system is supposed to support. FtD may need a buff, now that it can't be used with Fracture, but I don't think it's horrible that they are on the same tier.

The new Soul Barrier seems really interesting. Has anyone given it a test drive yet?

The problem is that you don't generate nearly enough souls to make FTD worth it without Fracture. It also messes with the rest of the choices by making things like making Fracture mandatory for Gluttony, except that Gluttony is buffing Soul Cleaves damage, which you're not doing as much of because of Fracture. Not to mention throwing Soul Rending on the same tier, which is dumb.

[Orloth]

Isn't that the point? You're supposed to be making choices when you select talents. If they aren't tough choices than they aren't good talents.

[Elamahpla]

but you also want some sort of talent synergy, don't you? you want certain talents to play off of others.

[Delimit]

but you also want some sort of talent synergy, don't you? you want certain talents to play off of others.

You do. This is especially important now that we also have to try and account for how the talents interact with the artifact.

- - - Updated - - -

Logs of RS, Fallout, Gluttony, Fracture, FE, BT, and Barrier.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...V4Fcwb#fight=1

[Cooper]

but you also want some sort of talent synergy, don't you? you want certain talents to play off of others.

Only if one wants cookie cutter builds, which Blizzard does not, and rightfully so.

[Elamahpla]

with burning alive, does it mean the fiery brand spreads to new targets at full duration? do those heal w/ the artifact trait?

[Delimit]

Only if one wants cookie cutter builds, which Blizzard does not, and rightfully so.

Synergy doesn't equal "cookie cutter". Having a bunch of disjointed nonsense would be ridiculous, and it's pretty clear that's not how they intend talent trees to work.

[Orloth]

Firstly: There are a lot of these that are severely under powered at the moment. I'm treating them as their intended function, rather than their current strength.

Secondly: Of course there should be talent synergy, I never suggested otherwise. What I said was that choosing between talents (or talent builds if you prefer to think of synergistic sets as a single entity) should be difficult and require consideration into what works for your situation or for you.

Feed the Demon used to be 2 sec per SF. It was nerfed largely because of its synergy with Fracture. I'm not saying it shouldn't synergize with Fracture, I'm saying that it doesn't anymore, and under its new situation it has its particular uses, and should probably get a buff (pending math, as always) to compete with Fracture instead.

[Cooper]

Synergy doesn't equal "cookie cutter". Having a bunch of disjointed nonsense would be ridiculous, and it's pretty clear that's not how they intend talent trees to work.

Oh yes it does. Take A, then B because it synergizes with A, and C because it synergizes with B, and suddenly anybody who doesn't take "ABC" is wrong.

Talent trees are supposed to be about personal preference ("Do I want another soul fragment generator or more uptime on Demon Spikes?"), and not "I better take Fracture because I took Feed the Demon."

[xskarma]

Logs of RS, Fallout, Gluttony, Fracture, FE, BT, and Barrier.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...V4Fcwb#fight=1

Interesting, thanks. Was there any particular reason for this set up of talents? Not sure if you went in to test how certain things worked or if you went in with some idea about this being a strong set up that you wnated to confirm.