Super Late Overwatch Feedback

[guyver88]

Hello all, so I ended up getting around Rank 27 or 28 in the (PC)beta, had some good games, some bad. Played all of Blizzard's stuff and never doing this for any, I figure I’d share some thoughts. The official site seems to have shut off posts...not really sure why since game has about 2 weeks till release and I think balance is still not there.

(Scroll to bottom for TLDR and suggestions)

Overall I had fun, the game is fast, controls feel good, there’s lots of variety in characters/abilities. Not having to worry about ammo is awesome. I do like the decision for not having a radar, makes sneaky approaches have some sort of value in catching people off guard and can mess with Tracers orientation.

The 2 current game modes are fun for what they are, but being direct copies of TF with nothing really different probably kills it a bit for experienced TF players (me not being one). The loading screen at the moment has no information regarding the game mode you get matched for. In fact you don’t even know what you get yourself into until the Hero selection and even then the mild “ATTACK” indicator is nowhere near enough to help. It could be the game wants me to attack a Payload or a Control Point, two different things most likely requiring a different approach.

The modes themselves force players into specific styles of gameplay. Now I’m not sure how much of this is intentional, I get that the team needs to have some sort of synergy but at the moment with the current setup if you are defending and want to win, you stack some Bastions and say screw synergy. Maybe a Mei, definitely need the dwarf, a tank or something. At the end, all I wanted to do was play some Reaper. People who only want to play one Hero for the sake of getting better or practice potentially get punished and have to cater to the needs of the composition . Personally I don't mind, but I know this to be a problem for some.

This also messes with the game since there is no Hero Lock, you’re constantly encouraged to switch your Hero to counter any problematic strategy, turning it into some sort of weird game of rock paper scissors on the fly, assuming the opposing teams are equally skilled. Now considering there is also a timer, and the game is constantly pushing you to move forward and be aggressive the overall outcome of the match is a cluster of random variables, many of which are outside player control.

The Overtime mechanic also could use to tweaking. There are times where there’s no enemies on the Payload close to the end, and the Overtime kicks in stopping us from getting the win. This gives the opposing team just enough time to walk out of the spawn pool and dump all their Q’s on us wiping us one final time ending up in a loss. Bummer right...

Character balance is not too bad with the exception of a select few. This differs for each person but for me, I personally felt Bastion, Torbjorn, Hanzo, Roadhog and on occasion Junkrat need some tuning.

Bastion: Turret mode is insane. The range, power everything is just too much. I'm pretty sure hes got a heal too. Waay too much. His Q is again, waaay too much. Limit his shots to like 3 or something. He can still get multi kills just please stop him from spamming the 1 shot missiles.

Torbjorn: His turret tracking is crazy, poor Pharah is absolutely forced to be on the ground and can’t do much of anything unless teammates see what's up and decide to cover you. That's not even the worst part, but his auto attack is too strong. I don’t know what he does but I’ve seen killcams where he gets multi kills sniping. The range wasn’t extremely far, but far enough where he 2 shot a guy way out in the distance.

Hanzo: The arrows hit for so much and I don’t know if it’s some hitbox thing or what but I very often just seem him firing blindly getting random kills. Often times it’s arguable just how the arrow made contact with the target. It could be the arrow where it explodes but still I can’t believe it would do that much damage from an indirect hit. His Q is good, been owned by it and also dodged it enough times to feel it’s decently balanced. I heard sometimes it won't display the dragon and you will just find yourself losing tons of HP quick, some bug.

Roadhog: The grapple shotgun combo is really really strong. So strong in fact I’ve been 1 shot by it as a Reinhardt many times. So if the game has counters to counters, I would conclude Roadhog has no counters. As long as that grapple connects, anyone is dead within the next second given he gets the shotgun off. That with the heal and tank health pool = gg.

Junkrat: Not so much overpowered but just the style of play he encourages, again in relation to the current game modes often he seems really effective. His Q can easily be saved for a critical enemy rush to quickly clear out the point and secure the win since it’s very safe and 100% sure kill.

Also Mei secondary fire seems really powerful. All on it’s own even without the need for freezing. The range is too good, can be used as some sort of sniper which I don’t like. Been 2 shot by it many times as just about any offense Hero, 1 shot in the head. If you have less than 200 HP you stand very little chance against Mei. The rest of her I enjoy, fun Hero.



TLDR+Suggestions

If you're still with me at this point I could go on which is why it took a while to write this, but in conclusion the game needs some balance patches to be great. The current state of the beta is broken from a balance perspective and it relies far too much on the mystical power of the RNG, like many Blizzard games. Everyone has to have fun... Kills often feel like they are given for free, similar to how Destiny had its supers, people just dump them on the objective and hope for the best. With the Payload mode, everyone is obviously on the Payload, they have to be to move it forward, making it so easy for a Junkrat, or Hanzo super to get a multi kill. Maybe 1 shot supers and these game modes just don’t work too well...

Those aspects of the game, which heavily relate to the modes themselves, need to be changed in my opinion. Maybe don't have supers charging the entire time. Make people work for their super thorough kills or streaks. Maybe make it a side objective, capture control of a temple, and supers charge while fighting inside. Make it possible to have a legit tug or war with the Payload, allowing players to move it back and forth on its designated course and not lock it to the mode. At the moment if you defend it seems to never move back, or if it does it’s very slow and only at specific points.

More game modes! This game is perfect for something like that, nothing too MOBAe but some mercenary camps similar to HOTS, maybe some type of core.... yes the game times might increase as a result but it can’t be anything game breaking. HOTS has great map variety and games can last anywhere between 5-30+ min which I think is acceptable for majority gamers.

Oh and Hero Lock, the more I think about it the more I feel the current version of the game would be lost with it’s addition. As things are now, I need to change Heroes often to adapt to the enemy strategy, and even if both teams were locked from the start the way Heroes are designed with the rock paper scissor philosophy, would potentially screw over many teams straight out of the gate forcing them to sit through a 10-15min beatdown.

Ok I’m gonna end it here, wait for the release and hope some changes are made, if not at least some more people are aware of the BS and can bitch once the game releases to try polish this thing up. Thank you all for your time who read some of this, take care, see you online.

[Kaos Incarnate]

Bastion is pretty deadly if he is set up just right and your team is not counter picking, but can be countered by flankers that he isn't aware of, pharah can snipe him with rockets, a good widowmaker can out snipe him also, but it requires you to be smart against a bastion player, he does heal but he can't shoot if he is repairing. If it is a combo of Bastion with a Mercy and Reinhardt then have a Symmertra use her alternative fire to bypass his shield or if there is a Hanzo with his ultimate up.

Torbjorn again it is about counter picking, best way to counter is have people shooting at the turret and the Torbjorn to put pressure on him, behind a Reinhardt shield if it is at a choke point, he also has a long range attack with his left mouse button and an alternative fire in the short range but more powerful, I believe the left click has some drop off and perhaps the Torbjorn was lucky and picked off a squishy hero. Again ideal counters are Widowmaker, Pharah, Hanzo, Junkrat anyone can take out the turret though, because no-one is in control of it and it is a static turret, someone can get the attention of the turret while another takes it out.

For Hanzo he does have a scatter arrow that splits up once it comes into contact with someone, but I think the random kills you could be talking about might be the fact someone else may have finished off his previous target off screen as eliminations are counted for aslong as you have contributed to that kill in some way. To go into depth on the scatter arrow more, if aimed correctly and with luck it can get most of the arrows from it hitting the target he was aiming for.

Roadhog does have counters Reaper can eat him alive as that is what a reaper is good at, snipers can also pick him off out of hooking range and the hook and shotgun combo can be escaped from by Tracers (Recall, possibly blink), Genjis (Swift Strike), Reaper (Wraith) and possibly McCree (Flashbang) but it needs very good timing after being pulled by the hook.

There is nothing wrong with Junkrat's playstyle as he is there to counter heroes such as Torbjorn, Tracer, Reaper and Genji specifically, just normal firing at Torbjorn or his turret can take it out with ease without even having to have him in line of sight and his trap often can capture the unaware flanking heroes for a quick take down by anyone. His q isn't a 100% sure kill as you can kill the tire by shooting it also splitting up can make it less effective as it can not kill a team.

Mei's alternative fire is meant to be a long range attack and sniping someone not moving out the way is easy I managed to out snipe a widowmaker as Mercy at times, using cover or moving positions just means you are aware they are there and allows you some vital seconds to find an alternative route to take out your target or stick with where you are and hope your team can help.

The Overtime mechanic also could use to tweaking. There are times where there’s no enemies on the Payload close to the end, and the Overtime kicks in stopping us from getting the win. This gives the opposing team just enough time to walk out of the spawn pool and dump all their Q’s on us wiping us one final time ending up in a loss. Bummer right...

Overtime is there to give the attacking team a chance, especially if it is close to the finish line, sounds like your team was outplayed in the overtime

The modes themselves force players into specific styles of gameplay. Now I’m not sure how much of this is intentional, I get that the team needs to have some sort of synergy but at the moment with the current setup if you are defending and want to win, you stack some Bastions and say screw synergy. Maybe a Mei, definitely need the dwarf, a tank or something. At the end, all I wanted to do was play some Reaper. People who only want to play one Hero for the sake of getting better or practice potentially get punished and have to cater to the needs of the composition . Personally I don't mind, but I know this to be a problem for some.

They do not force people in to specific playstyles, you can utilise attacking heroes for defense and defense heroes for attack, every hero is viable in both situations, what matters is how they are used and when will be the right time to use them, using flankers on a defense situation is good as you make people think about splitting off to deal with the flanker which works in your teams favour as they face less on the point, or if they ignore you you can pick them off during combat while they are distracted. Stacking all attack heroes would struggle to work as a defense team though.

[Post]

The current state of the beta is broken from a balance perspective and it relies far too much on the mystical power of the RNG, like many Blizzard games.

There is no RNG.

[baskev]

My reply to your nice feedback.

Hero feedback:
Bastion: I hear allot of overpowered this overpowered that. I do not agree with this. A good player knows how to out play him. Couple of easy counters: Roadhog ( chain pulls him out of turret mode), reaper/tracer move behind him and headshot him to death. Hanzo/widowmaker can snipe him thru small post/cracks. While the spread of turret mode can not hit them back. And in small spaces a reinhard can body slam him with easy. And a Farrah can rocket bastion back to the factory.

Torbjorn : The fact that he can take down pharah is a good thing. Otherwise a good pharah player will be unstoppable. His range is a but much yeah.

Hanzo: Ineed if you do no know the hitbox you miss always. If you do know the hitbox you 1 shot teams.

Roadhog Yes i must say. The tanks need some works. roadhoag and reinhardt are to strong. And yes his pull+shoot is to strong. A tank should be able to counter it. For example if he pulls a reinhard you can charge if you want to.

Junkrat Easy 2 kill.

Mei She is strong in offense and powers. But she is really easy to kill. so glass cannon if you ask me.

My additions to your hero's ( and some i agree with you) ( who i think are a bit unbalanced):

Lucky luke His ultimate is to strong. just like hanzo's

Reaper his cloak/movement thing needs a longer cooldown.

D.va Her shield needs to last longer. it barely stops anything.

reinhard his swing needs either more damage or bigger range ( vertical range). You can sometimes swing at players in front of you and still not killing them. It should be as powerfull as roadhoggs shotgun.

winston Monkey rage mode sucks winstons b*lls. How it controls + accuracy + camera pov makes it THE most useless Q of them all.

zarya I know she is hard to play. and if you make her shield last longer she will get OP because her weapon gets stronger. BUT you never see here in the field because she dies so easy.

"healers" are very nice. all have there strenghts + weaknesses.

TLDR+Suggestions

Rng: Nope. I do not agree with you on this. Its really easy to counter hero's if you know what you are doing.

Kills: Yes the feel easy. But they need 2 move towards to target. So you know where they are.

Superpowers: They should be power entire time. Other wise certain heroes ( like in alpha) get a advantage. But i think the bigger problem is with the strenght of some of them. For example. a bastion is balance if you ask me. Its strong. but you need 2 hit people. and you can move away from him. But a symestra's teleporter can be destroyed with ease and takes allot of time to get back. While hanzo's dragon fly's by people every 30 seconds.

Gamemodes: YES YES YES. I agree with you. maybe a game mode like: NO Q ability's

Hero lock: NO NO NO. This is what the game is made for. If you go for locks you get cookie cutter builds for maps. For example volstock on defense. you need a tjobron + symmetra turrents + a bastion on the final point = unbreakable.

Better matchmaking: i have been in teams and fought againts teams that where to good.

Maps: there are some maps that are not that balanced ( people have advantage on them)

a little side note. They should work on the cheaters.
I have seen some people been epic. And lucky. and as 25+ years of gaming. I can honestly say. That i know when people are cheating. I have seen people pull things of like. Killing whole teams without knowing where they are ( no widow or soldier on their team). Etc.

[jellmoo]

Roadhog: The grapple shotgun combo is really really strong. So strong in fact I’ve been 1 shot by it as a Reinhardt many times. So if the game has counters to counters, I would conclude Roadhog has no counters. As long as that grapple connects, anyone is dead within the next second given he gets the shotgun off. That with the heal and tank health pool = gg.

Unless your health was already low, this isn't possible. If Roadhog catches you with his hook really close, and his reflexes are good, he can do a 3 hit combo that can take out Reinhardt. Roadhog's weakness is a combo of range and low mobility. Reinhardt isn't the best character to go after Roadhog. A sniper or a very mobile character (Tracer, Reaper, Pharah) tear him down pretty easily.

[Zoidberg747]

Man 4 out of the 6 characters you posted are considered some of the more niche/worst in the game. You need to develop your game knowledge more if you think those characters are problems:

Bastion: Even if protected he can be killed easily by half the cast. Either flank him or outrange him but he has the most hard counters out of anyone. He is only a problem if you are running a comp that has no flankers and no range(i.e all Winston)

Torbjorn: I love Torby but he is easily the worst character in the game. His turret is extremely easy to kill(even when it is "hidden"). Get a good ranged character and take it out from afar. Or you can just pop around a corner, fire a few shots, go back, and repeat until its dead. Torby himself gets mediocre damage at best. The only reason he is sometimes used in higher level play is because of his ult and armor packs, but if a character is only useful when they use their ult that should tell you something.

Mei: Again, game knowledge. Not only is Mei's icicle slow but it has so much falloff that it only does 22 damage at range. Unless you stand perfectly still and allow her to get a headshot on you any ranged hero will kill her easily. She's great for survivability and close range encounters but she's still on the lower end of viability.

Hanzo: I don't know why you put him but not Widow. Widow does the exact same thing as him but has more range. He's not bad by any means but you can deal with one easily with an anti-sniper class(Winston).

Junkrat: His ult can be destroyed by shooting at it.

Roadhog: What do you think a good team will do while you're doing the grapple combo? Either kill you, or just charge their ults faster by getting you near death and waiting for you to heal.

Don't get me wrong, all of those characters have a niche and uses, but they are nowhere near OP and nowhere near best in the game.

Payload: You have to have 1 or 2 people engaging the enemy team off the payload. If you all are grouped up of course you are going to get wrecked. Having a reinhardt would help too. FYI, only 3 people have to be on the payload for it to move at its fastest pace.

[IxilaFA]

You claim to have gotten level 28 on the beta, but your post says you didn't play the game very much at all, or if you did, you didn't pay attention. I reached Level 26 on Beta, as an example, and I can tell your arguments are so, so wrong. For example:

The loading screen at the moment has no information regarding the game mode you get matched for. In fact you don’t even know what you get yourself into until the Hero selection and even then the mild “ATTACK” indicator is nowhere near enough to help. It could be the game wants me to attack a Payload or a Control Point, two different things most likely requiring a different approach.

The loading screen gives you all the information you need. There are only twelve maps:

1) Capture Point maps:
--Hanimura
--Volskaya Industries
--Temple of Anubis

2) Full payload maps:
--Watchpoint Gibraltar
--Dorado
--Route 66

3) King of the Hill maps:
--Lianjiang Tower
--Ilois
--Nepal

4) Hybrid maps:
--King's Row
--Hollywood
--Namibia

These maps never change their objectives, and it says as you're loading "Now traveling to XX." Then when you see Attack or Defend pop up you know exactly what you're getting into. The fact that you didn't realize the maps are set like this tells me you really didn't play to level 28 (I saw all the maps by level 15), or that you weren't paying any attention at all, which makes me question the rest of your arguments.

As for new modes being needed, what would you suggest? There's only so many different game modes you can use in a FPS, and a Domination or Capture the Flag type map wouldn't work at all in this game.

The modes themselves force players into specific styles of gameplay. Now I’m not sure how much of this is intentional, I get that the team needs to have some sort of synergy but at the moment with the current setup if you are defending and want to win, you stack some Bastions and say screw synergy. Maybe a Mei, definitely need the dwarf, a tank or something. At the end, all I wanted to do was play some Reaper. People who only want to play one Hero for the sake of getting better or practice potentially get punished and have to cater to the needs of the composition . Personally I don't mind, but I know this to be a problem for some.

You won't win against a competent team by stacking Bastion, or any one hero. The game is all about synergy and so you should be considering that when you go in. Even in a public game you should be capable of playing more than one or two heroes and you should switch to what the team needs to counter the opposing squad. If your intention is to play one hero all the time, you're playing the wrong game, honestly. This isn't World of Warcraft where you choose your main and stick with it and become a master at that and nothing else.

This also messes with the game since there is no Hero Lock, you’re constantly encouraged to switch your Hero to counter any problematic strategy, turning it into some sort of weird game of rock paper scissors on the fly, assuming the opposing teams are equally skilled. Now considering there is also a timer, and the game is constantly pushing you to move forward and be aggressive the overall outcome of the match is a cluster of random variables, many of which are outside player control.

I fail to see how switching to other heroes and learning who counters who and utilizing that to your advantage is a "random variable." There is nothing random about this game. You may not be in complete control of whether you win or lose (since it is a team-based game), but you do have a high responsibility for picking the right hero for the situation. If you're playing a Bastion and constantly getting fucked, switch to something else.

The Overtime mechanic also could use to tweaking. There are times where there’s no enemies on the Payload close to the end, and the Overtime kicks in stopping us from getting the win. This gives the opposing team just enough time to walk out of the spawn pool and dump all their Q’s on us wiping us one final time ending up in a loss. Bummer right...

Overtime keeps going so long as a player from the attacking force is standing on the payload or the capture point. It's not a bad mechanic. You should be aware of ults, especially in the last few seconds, as a defender. I've seen a lot of teams who save up their ults for the final push and I've similarly seen a lot of defensive teams get wiped out by it. Don't feel pressured by the clock, and don't all pile on the point as defenders. You only need one person contesting the point to keep it from getting captured, and the rest of the defenders should be watching for ults and picking off people from the side.

If you are getting continually wrecked by ults, it's a "git gud" problem. Very few ults should kill you if you are playing properly.

Bastion: Turret mode is insane. The range, power everything is just too much. I'm pretty sure hes got a heal too. Waay too much. His Q is again, waaay too much. Limit his shots to like 3 or something. He can still get multi kills just please stop him from spamming the 1 shot missiles.

Ah the classic newbie argument. Bastion is OP. Once you learn how to counter him, Bastion isn't powerful in the least. He has very low mobility and is easy prey to a sniper while in turret mode. Furthermore there are very few spots where he can successfully set up and be able to pick off people without getting flanked. The fact that you don't even know for sure that he has a heal tells me you just don't know enough about character abilities in this game. As for his Q, it has one of the loudest and most distinctive audibles in the game and it only lasts for 8 seconds. If you hear a Bastion ult, run away and hide for 8 seconds.

Torbjorn: His turret tracking is crazy, poor Pharah is absolutely forced to be on the ground and can’t do much of anything unless teammates see what's up and decide to cover you. That's not even the worst part, but his auto attack is too strong. I don’t know what he does but I’ve seen killcams where he gets multi kills sniping. The range wasn’t extremely far, but far enough where he 2 shot a guy way out in the distance.

Uh, Pharrah is THE Torbjorn (and Bastion) counter. Her rockets can knock out a stationary turret easily. While I agree the turrets shouldn't be an auto hit, they aren't that strong and they aren't that hard to counter. If you're running out and letting yourself go from full to zero by a turret, you need to improve your awareness. If a Torbjorn is actually killing people with his weapon it's either a really good Torb or it's a really bad opponent.

Hanzo: The arrows hit for so much and I don’t know if it’s some hitbox thing or what but I very often just seem him firing blindly getting random kills. Often times it’s arguable just how the arrow made contact with the target. It could be the arrow where it explodes but still I can’t believe it would do that much damage from an indirect hit. His Q is good, been owned by it and also dodged it enough times to feel it’s decently balanced. I heard sometimes it won't display the dragon and you will just find yourself losing tons of HP quick, some bug.

Hanzo does indeed have some wonky hitbox issues, but he isn't nearly close to overpowered. Get up behind him and he's fucked. Don't let him get a clear shot on you and he's fucked. Snipe him and knock him down from his post and he's fucked. If you are close to him and getting hit, odds are he's using his rebound arrows on you, which split and deal a lot of damage if they manage to hit the target.

Roadhog: The grapple shotgun combo is really really strong. So strong in fact I’ve been 1 shot by it as a Reinhardt many times. So if the game has counters to counters, I would conclude Roadhog has no counters. As long as that grapple connects, anyone is dead within the next second given he gets the shotgun off. That with the heal and tank health pool = gg.

This is where you completely lose me. I've been grappled many, many times (too many times, really) as Soldier 76 who has half the HP of Reinhardt and I still don't get one-shot. If you're getting one shot, you're getting hit by other things. Not only that, but the hook is pretty difficult to aim, and you can dodge it just by moving in an unpredictable manner. Roadhog's counter is a good Soldier 76, a good McCree, really anything that can get off a lot of hits quickly. Widowmaker fucks his day up as well since he makes for such a big target. He's supposed to be a point holder, but get him one on one versus a lot of mobile heroes and he doesn't last long at all. I've 1v1ed Roadhog so many times as Soldier 76. And your goal is to chase him off the point and make him heal. He is a damage sponge, and so long as he's not on the point he is being effectively countered.

Junkrat: Not so much overpowered but just the style of play he encourages, again in relation to the current game modes often he seems really effective. His Q can easily be saved for a critical enemy rush to quickly clear out the point and secure the win since it’s very safe and 100% sure kill.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with his style of play. It requires cleverness and a good awareness of your surroundings, because if you get the drop on a Junkrat you're probably going to kill him. His Q is also not "safe". It only has something like 100 HP and can easily be nuked down on its way in. Also it's very audible so you should be able to run from it.

Also Mei secondary fire seems really powerful. All on it’s own even without the need for freezing. The range is too good, can be used as some sort of sniper which I don’t like. Been 2 shot by it many times as just about any offense Hero, 1 shot in the head. If you have less than 200 HP you stand very little chance against Mei. The rest of her I enjoy, fun Hero.

This is the only thing I agree with. Fuck Mei.

TLDR+Suggestions

If you're still with me at this point I could go on which is why it took a while to write this, but in conclusion the game needs some balance patches to be great. The current state of the beta is broken from a balance perspective and it relies far too much on the mystical power of the RNG, like many Blizzard games. Everyone has to have fun... Kills often feel like they are given for free, similar to how Destiny had its supers, people just dump them on the objective and hope for the best. With the Payload mode, everyone is obviously on the Payload, they have to be to move it forward, making it so easy for a Junkrat, or Hanzo super to get a multi kill. Maybe 1 shot supers and these game modes just don’t work too well...[/quote]
Once again, there's zero RNG in this game. All of the shots have the same damage based on variable factors (range from target, location of the shot, hero tuning, etc). Also, as I said earlier, if your team is getting wiped out by an ult on the point you're failing as a team. Focus on calling out ults and avoiding them, even if it means jumping off the payload for a moment. You also aren't supposed to have everyone on the payload. A tank and maybe a good rapid fire shooter on the payload is all you need. The rest should be flying around the map, picking off enemies, flanking enemy positions, etc. If you're constantly standing on the point regardless of your class, that could explain a lot of the issues you're having.

Those aspects of the game, which heavily relate to the modes themselves, need to be changed in my opinion. Maybe don't have supers charging the entire time. Make people work for their super thorough kills or streaks. Maybe make it a side objective, capture control of a temple, and supers charge while fighting inside. Make it possible to have a legit tug or war with the Payload, allowing players to move it back and forth on its designated course and not lock it to the mode. At the moment if you defend it seems to never move back, or if it does it’s very slow and only at specific points.

If supers didn't charge the entire time, some would be worthless. A Mercy or a Lucio rarely gets a kill. Sometimes you're playing Widowmaker and setting up for a good shot (or, shudder, Bastion). The rate at which your ult charges from hitting a target is so much faster than it building by itself, as well. Odds are you've probably never had an ult charge from 0 to 100% without ever hitting the enemy. It's just not efficient at all.

You can legit tug of war payloads. I've seen it done several times as defense. Once it passes a checkpoint, you can't push it back past that checkpoint, but you can push it pretty far back. It just requires defenders to stay on the payload, and most don't do that as soon as the attacking team is wiped out. I've seen payloads get stalled around the corners in Watchpoint Gibraltar all the time because of how easy it is for defenders to push back attackers and then push back the payload.

More game modes! This game is perfect for something like that, nothing too MOBAe but some mercenary camps similar to HOTS, maybe some type of core.... yes the game times might increase as a result but it can’t be anything game breaking. HOTS has great map variety and games can last anywhere between 5-30+ min which I think is acceptable for majority gamers.

Mercenary Camps? For what? This isn't a MOBA, they shouldn't have MOBA features in it for the sake alone of being similar to a MOBA. Merc camps would add nothing to the game.

Oh and Hero Lock, the more I think about it the more I feel the current version of the game would be lost with it’s addition. As things are now, I need to change Heroes often to adapt to the enemy strategy, and even if both teams were locked from the start the way Heroes are designed with the rock paper scissor philosophy, would potentially screw over many teams straight out of the gate forcing them to sit through a 10-15min beatdown.

Finally you understand the point of this game. It is designed to change heroes. Again, this isn't a MOBA.

[Deleted]

SPOILER:

More bastion QQ because people don't realise how easy he is to play against..

[guyver88]

Sweet thank you all for replying, I'm super newbie with these TF modes and this open beta was my first Overwatch experience ever. You can maybe tell I tend to stick to MOBA/RPG types but on often occasions I'll try whatever. Naturally I may have screwed up in my description of some situations and character abilities, mechanics etc. so I'll try reply as best I can since the game is undoubtedly fun, however I do feel some abilities/mechanics slightly break things up if the beta identically reflects the final product. Again this is mostly taking into consideration QuickMatch MM, you're tired from work, you get home you just wanna shoot shit, no party chat, solo queue, no coordinating, very little strategy or thinking really unless you wanna make some plays in the moment n whatnot.


Kaos Incarnate
Bastion has many counter play options no doubt but many people seem to not know how to flank properly as I would assume it takes pretty good knowledge of the map layout and if Bastion really feels threatened he can quickly reposition and punish many flank attempts. Given his entire team is most likely planted around one point watching like hawks, even if a Pharah lets say ulted from a good spot, it's such an easy target in the sky with her yelling a turret or Widow shot will own her before Bastion is in any real danger.

Yeah I agree, Torbjorn isn't some dungeon boss, he's killable however in the hands of a good expd player you have to respect and focus him hard. If you fail too many times, the timer starts being your enemy and a very subtle snowballing effect begins forming.

Could be, hard to tell for sure if it's some kind of assist, sometimes probably it is, but sometimes I'm almost sure he got someone at half HP or near it like you mentioned. Hanzo can afford to do this since his DMG is so damn high on the arrow but it's definitely tricky to tune since that's the heros highlight. Maybe scale back the damage based on the travel distance a bit more or something...?

It's true now that you mention it Reaper is pretty good against larger targets, making Roadhog perfect, however one a 1v1 face to face, I gotta say it could be any ones kill I feel, considering equal skill.

You could be right, maybe that one I messed up on, I think his super just left a huge impression on me since it was often on that POTG thing and I lost many games as a result of it. He is super annoying though

With Mei, while that could be just you being better than the enemy Widow, using cover sounds like a good tactic but a newbie or even decent Widow would do that I think, it kinda just happens naturally since you don't wanna get hit. In that case that sounds wrong to me, the sniper class should have the upper hand %100 at that range not the defender, but its hard when she has to worry about the contesting shard shot which does almost as much as a charged sniper shot. Mei should shine up close, freezing people I think, not both that and long range and can block walls, good escape, good often Q. Too may tools I think in the hands of you crazy expd players.

The Overtime is great, don't get me wrong, I have no problems with it unless it has a weird thing where like I said, it starts for no reason JUST to give the enemy team one last chance to RUN to the Payload and keep the Overtime in play. That I feel is BS. It should always give me the win if the Payload reaches the end uncontested and the enemies are wiped. This specific thing, could have been some bug or maybe I just didn't see someone still around the Payload, but I've had 2 other people tell me something similar happened.

I think the only way you can consider all the heroes viable for both Attack/Defense is if you have good coordinated, experienced teams against other good coordinated experienced teams all on voice comms, all wanting to badly win for money or something. At that point you can have every class played to it's max potential making almost any approach effective since it will be made in relation to a team strategy/plan.


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lolz


baskev

I agree with the additions, the D.va shield I also felt was too weak and had very little presence as an ability. The Roadhog pull shot I think the next couple people address it too, jellmoo IxilaFA and I gotta say there is definitely potential for escape, I don't know if it varies on the player caught having to mash the escape key or time it real good but you can't always do it, I'm %100 on this since I've mashed the shit out of my Recall/Dash thing against some Hogs. Sometimes it works and you make it out, sometimes it kills you and you take the death.

Bastion, I don't know, too many ifs and maybes, can probably both agree for a player just getting the game and never playing any Overwatch Bastion is one of the first he'll curse at and be forced to stretch some brain muscles. His viability I think is very circumstantial on the skill/exp of the enemy team but also more than anything on the game mode itself. On Defense a really good Bastion will be covered by his team since they know he can clean up, flanking is tougher to pull off and the timer is ticking...

Junkrat is yeah...probably not that threatening but he can definitely make some good game wining plays form safe distances, yeah you can shoot the wheel but it's quick and depending on positioning, the cluster of players about to get smoked are probably more preoccupied with other things making that wheel near impossible to focus down in those moments. It does happen though with some decently aware players so he isn't too crazy but definitely has strong presence on the map.

Mei can be a bitch to kill sometimes, one tactic I stole from some players which was really effective was timing the Ice Wall at Mei's feet as soon as the Ice Block is about to expire, then run like hell. I found it neutralizes many near death situations and throws people off, unless you happen to block off some team mates which could suck.

Reaper cloak thing also need a new animation or a touch up, I swear it looked like he was stuck in jump animation or something from what I remember.

Rein hammer DMG could use a bit of a boost I agree, while the Winston monkey mode is very useful though the controls feel a bit odd lol but he's a wild monkey kinda captures his character. Melee is a bit inaccurate and the DMG is somewhat weak but in general I had fun as Winston. His shield is kinda weak, it goes down really quick I thought unless it was being focused down or something and the lack of a secondary fire or alternate weapons kinda makes him feel a bit simple.
Never actually played Lucio, but I did notice a difference when he was on my team and his Q did make a world of difference. Need more time with the game to say for sure.
Zarya yea he/she is, played a bit so my exp is weak. Sounds crazy didn't know that deffinitely gonna have to try again on release.

Supers are definitely really strong, and yes recharge too quick for some heroes inconsistently putting some at an unfair advantage. This is one big aspect why I feel the game has a lot of RNG. It's in the synergy of specific supers and how often they happen making certain approaches become limited and ineffective for a time unless a number of players are on the same page, example being: Defending and having the Widow super active while 2 bastions being completely aware of the enemy locations for the next couple rushes and what path they are taking. The timer starts eating at you and the opposing team can't do anything since being patient and waiting it out punishes you while if you choose to try and go in you have to take a risk potentially wasting even more time running back.
Fortunately I haven't run into OW cheaters yet but no doubt there's some weirdos out there gonna get hard from exploiting this game.


Zoidberg747

So again yeah didn't get as much time with the game as I would have liked but when it comes to these niche type heroes they just seem, maybe to me, to require more respect when encountered on the field especially for certain modes, in general more awareness and sometimes arguably some minor coordinated team effort. This in combination with the quick and inconsistent charge rate on various hero supers did give me that Destiny feel where kills were very often handed out for the sake of everyone having fun and getting kills.
Oh I left out Widow since I never really had any weirdness happen, her sniper is clear and simple straight shot, the bullet doesn't have any sort of hang time or ricochet property. Usually it's clear how I messed up and let her to kill me unless her Q is up and she reads me around corners.


IxilaFA

Ok that totally missed me with the maps being mode related, but still it's not very clear and honestly it wouln't require that much work to put a couple text boxes on the side giving players a couple tips on how to play the mode. I think that should be a no brainer and I'm probably talkin shit here since the full game might already include this but if it doesn't it's kind of a dumb simple thing to leave out.
Also I think many of the tips in the loading screen should include more strategic tips for helping people manage themselves against certain playstyles. The types of things that get discussed in forums just summarized in a couple lines, give people an idea on how to counter what they feel is BS.
Ok giving it more thought, some more varied game modes are needed but probably adding AI might not be a good thing and not fit with what the designers have in mind. CTF though should be a thing!!!
To summarize I think my biggest problem with the game after all the individual hero abilities bullshit and one shot supers is that the Q powers are too quick, free and too strong, resulting in free kills and lots of deaths making the game really random/casual. I just wanna maybe be a bit more durable, have a bit more survivability time for decisions? A bit is key here since some characters do have a good chunk of life and should be left alone, however I think many, many problems might be fixed with some tweaks on the super charge rate. Don't get me wrong some can be tied to time but to have everyone collectively charging constant one shot supers is too wild.

Phew omg...ok now back to gaming!

[Forogorn]

Bastion is immobile and can be easily killed if you can get your team to coordinate with you

I think the modes we got are fine, but it'd be cool if they added more

Yeah Junkrat isn't OP, but he's definitely annoying

[Kaos Incarnate]

The sniper does have the advantage at that range, but not giving people a chance to outskill a sniper just means a lot more would pick snipers and group play would suffer for it even more.

Overtime starts when the timer reaches 0 for both payload and the control point maps or for the king of the hill type control points when a team reaches 99%, this timer goes down when the attacking team is not contending the objective and resets to the full duration when someone is, the easiest way to win as defence is to keep the attacking team away when overtime is in effect, which can be done by using a mixture of knockbacks/area denial abilities/killing them.

There is nothing stopping you from communicating with your own team using the tools provided to you from Blizzard which includes the voice comms, typing in team chat or even using the basic commands such as group up, ultimate status etc. But keep in mind outright telling random people what they should/shouldn't play will more than likely end up with you being ignored.