Is Elemental Shaman underpowered?

[Lucrece]

Being fun is great and all, but eventually one can only take so much of being just tall enough to sniff a mage/lock/hunter's asshole on the dps meter.

That's what everyone will be saying at some point. Someone will be top, someone in the middle, and someone at the bottom.

And pure DPS will always sit at the top by virtue of having 3 choices of DPS specs to deal with every possible single target/cleave/aoe scenario.

They would need to design all hybrids to be competitive in single target/cleave/aoe baseline, and they've been pretty incompetent about it throughout WoW's existence.

Any time a balance druid, or shaman, or monk have sat at the top, it's been a single tier affair as the nerfs quickly come in and eventually it's always a rogue/mage and occasionally warlock on top by the end of the xpac with the exception of shadow priests in Cataclysm.

Playing a hybrid DPS just means you keep that in mind.

Or this game simply devolves into everyone playing a lock/mage/rogue/hunter.

[Kazgrel]

That's what everyone will be saying at some point. Someone will be top, someone in the middle, and someone at the bottom.

And pure DPS will always sit at the top by virtue of having 3 choices of DPS specs to deal with every possible single target/cleave/aoe scenario.

They would need to design all hybrids to be competitive in single target/cleave/aoe baseline, and they've been pretty incompetent about it throughout WoW's existence.

Any time a balance druid, or shaman, or monk have sat at the top, it's been a single tier affair as the nerfs quickly come in and eventually it's always a rogue/mage and occasionally warlock on top by the end of the xpac with the exception of shadow priests in Cataclysm.

Playing a hybrid DPS just means you keep that in mind.

Or this game simply devolves into everyone playing a lock/mage/rogue/hunter.

If hybrids brought other benefits aside from their assigned role of tank/heal/dps, then maybe there would be a point in playing a handicapped class.

In FF14, Bards and Machinists are behind all other dps in terms of raw damage output. They make up for this, though, with buffs that increase party damage for casters (bard) and physical damage dealers (machinist). Shaman had cool stuff like that forever ago, like Windfury Totem, and (before class homogenization set in) Bloodlust. If stuff like that still existed for shaman, sure, being behind could be (slightly more) tolerable.

[Lucrece]

If hybrids brought other benefits aside from their assigned role of tank/heal/dps, then maybe there would be a point in playing a handicapped class.

In FF14, Bards and Machinists are behind all other dps in terms of raw damage output. They make up for this, though, with buffs that increase party damage for casters (bard) and physical damage dealers (machinist). Shaman had cool stuff like that forever ago, like Windfury Totem, and (before class homogenization set in) Bloodlust. If stuff like that still existed for shaman, sure, being behind could be (slightly more) tolerable.

Yeah but let's recall that people only bring 1 machinist or bard to the party.

That's why they changed paladin/shaman, because you'd bring the minimum of the buff spec and then stacked the real DPS classes.

The thing with WoW is that DPS balancing is far inferior to that of FFXIV. In FFXIV the melee DPS are apart by like 50-60 DPS at most, and caster DPS are only slightly behind to compensate for their superior aoe capacity.

WoW just needs to get its act together with balancing the classes so that the gaps are not so large.

At least it's not like Guild Wars 2 where some classes are doing 13-14k DPS while others do 36k DPS.

[Kazgrel]

Yeah but let's recall that people only bring 1 machinist or bard to the party.

That's why they changed paladin/shaman, because you'd bring the minimum of the buff spec and then stacked the real DPS classes.

The thing with WoW is that DPS balancing is far inferior to that of FFXIV. In FFXIV the melee DPS are apart by like 50-60 DPS at most, and caster DPS are only slightly behind to compensate for their superior aoe capacity.

WoW just needs to get its act together with balancing the classes so that the gaps are not so large.

At least it's not like Guild Wars 2 where some classes are doing 13-14k DPS while others do 36k DPS.

Meanwhile I recall plenty of world first kills in various wow raids featuring all of zero shaman.

The balancing act of dps in FF14 is part of why I find it to be a more enjoyable game at this point. It's pretty much down to "play the dps you enjoy the most and you'll be fine". None of this "oh you're dps spec of a hybrid? You get to do 20% less damage for...uh...reasons" malarkey. Then again, there are no hybrids in FF14, so that's a big help.

[Volitar]

Bring back hybrid dps and windfury totem and shaman dps is automatically good again!

[Riistov]

Shaman had cool stuff like that forever ago, like Windfury Totem, and (before class homogenization set in) Bloodlust. If stuff like that still existed for shaman, sure, being behind could be (slightly more) tolerable.

I really enjoyed the class the most when we had buffs/utility that no one else did. Even as recently as MoP our off-healing as Elemental was really solid. If we're not going to fill the utility niche we used to, then we need to be compensated, thats for sure.

[Socialhealer]

Meanwhile I recall plenty of world first kills in various wow raids featuring all of zero shaman.

yup paragon well known for taking no shamans, their LK 25 hc kill forced to take a token resto shaman because mages couldn't time warp back then.

then they basically went on to grab every world first without any shamans.

[Sodia]

Nobody is as potent as a fotm class. That's why they're fotm. If you're so obsessed as to jump ship every xpac or patch to the class that sits top 3 DPS, feel free. The game is actually not balanced around that.

There's a multitude of mythic elemental shaman raiders who get their kills, and it's not getting "carried". The threshold for a mythic kill in terms of DPS is met regardless of your class comp. You can remove mages/rogues/warriors from your raids and you'd still get kills.

Are you going to be top 10 in a guild race? Who the fuck cares? The OP is not the pathetic kind of guy who asks for weeks off work to waste on a videogame feat instead of actual vacations, he'll be fine playing ele.

OMG i cant stand arrogant pricks like you... I know you are so better then lets say... All thous players from top 100 guilds coz you have "Actual Vacations" and stuf like "life" but guess what!?! People can have fun in many ways .... And being carried thru game is fun only for guys like you....

[gambit998]

OMG i cant stand arrogant pricks like you... I know you are so better then lets say... All thous players from top 100 guilds coz you have "Actual Vacations" and stuf like "life" but guess what!?! People can have fun in many ways .... And being carried thru game is fun only for guys like you....

I agree Sodia ...with the name Socialhealer...it kind of makes sense. But unfortunatly the OP is asking a legitimate question. Elemental is so vastly undertuned it is scary, why would you bring a spec into a raid that Requires single target damage when an Elemental shaman is lacking in that. Or Requires Movement. And lastly Requires burst in general.

Elemental unfortunatly has been shoved in a Niche and that niche is our Sustained AOE, Which is pretty much useless in Most Fights during WOD.

In Closing they have front loaded all our AOE spells not thinking about the nerfs to our single target that they have imposed, hence the current state of affairs

[Sodia]

I agree Sodia ...with the name Socialhealer...it kind of makes sense. But unfortunatly the OP is asking a legitimate question. Elemental is so vastly undertuned it is scary, why would you bring a spec into a raid that Requires single target damage when an Elemental shaman is lacking in that. Or Requires Movement. And lastly Requires burst in general.

Elemental unfortunatly has been shoved in a Niche and that niche is our Sustained AOE, Which is pretty much useless in Most Fights during WOD.

In Closing they have front loaded all our AOE spells not thinking about the nerfs to our single target that they have imposed, hence the current state of affairs

I know that ... Ele was my main for the last 9 years .... But the only way for me to kill M Archimonde was to Respec Healer mid way .... All this so caled Devs teling as that Ele is fine .... Literally infuriate me together with all bliz apologists and fanboys ....All the fun i hand with my clas is gone thx to the new retards in Bliz Dev Team ...

[Jotaux]

Our raid has 1 resto, 1 enhance swing healer, and 2 elementals. We got Archimonde Mythic back on December the 11th. Not even close to world first but not too shabby either.

[Jibberjabber]

Our raid has 1 resto, 1 enhance swing healer, and 2 elementals. We got Archimonde Mythic back on December the 11th. Not even close to world first but not too shabby either.

check your carried privilege pls

[Jotaux]

check your carried privilege pls

Well we did have 3 mages, 2 locks and 3 rogues...

[dekomuri]

fights that have adds up a long time with your archi trinket have been the 1 and only time ive topped damage meters..pretty said imo but a constant 3+ flame shocks up is pretty good

[Brewtality55]

How will it hold up in Legion though? Hopefully Blizz will make the necessary buffs to put ele back on the map as a viable dps candidate

[Riistov]

How will it hold up in Legion though? Hopefully Blizz will make the necessary buffs to put ele back on the map as a viable dps candidate

Hoping so, but WoD really shook everyone's confidence.

[Deleted]

For a very long time, us Elemental Shamans has not been in any good state, and i doubt that blizzard would correct this, cause they see us as a raid booster, over a pure damage outputter, such as an awesome Rng Class as Mage, or a sick sustained warlock.

Sad but true r.i.p

[freddy090909]

For a very long time, us Elemental Shamans has not been in any good state, and i doubt that blizzard would correct this, cause they see us as a raid booster, over a pure damage outputter, such as an awesome Rng Class as Mage, or a sick sustained warlock.

Sad but true r.i.p

They don't see us as a "raid booster" - we haven't been for an extremely long time. We are a DPS class, but do not have the luxury of (easily) switching specs if we happen to be lower on the meters (e.g. fire gets nerfed -> swap to arcane).

The only reason WoD has sucked so bad for Ele is that we got relegated into a sustained AoE role, while Enhancement got put in a very similar AoE role. With AoE already being a niche, plus burst AoE being much more useful than sustained AoE in 90% of encounters, we found ourselves specialized for a problem that rarely existed.

Obviously, we have other problems in WoD, such as poor target-swapping and horrible burst cooldowns (particularly amplified by the ring). But, the core of it was that we were simply designed for encounters that rarely existed. Hopefully, with specialization being done moreso in talents in Legion, most classes will be able to break out of their respective boxes and perform well in a wider range of roles.

[Limez]

Hi there DazGnuke,

Everyone has their own opinions and I've seen a lot of people talking about how ele is underpowered compared to mages warlocks and hunters and thats the truth. Except that unless you're pushing for top 20 world it honestly doesnt matter. I have killed mythic Archi 21 times and was in no way carried. Because the truth is if you arent pushing for top 100 world youre going to be overgeared for the content anyway. Also if you're better than people you're playing with you will find a way to do decent numbers and compete no problem.

[Jotaux]

Hi there DazGnuke,

Everyone has their own opinions and I've seen a lot of people talking about how ele is underpowered compared to mages warlocks and hunters and thats the truth. Except that unless you're pushing for top 20 world it honestly doesnt matter. I have killed mythic Archi 21 times and was in no way carried. Because the truth is if you arent pushing for top 100 world youre going to be overgeared for the content anyway. Also if you're better than people you're playing with you will find a way to do decent numbers and compete no problem.

So your solution is to just be better than the people you are playing with in order to compete. Like if you are a top 100 player you should play with the top 500 to have a raid spot.