Immigration isn't bad, illegal immigration is!

[Deleted]

A slight pet hate of mine is people complaining about immigration being terrible when in reality the issue is illegal immigration not immigration as a whole. Though I suspect people will claim multiculturalism is bad therefore immigration is bad but hey-ho

[Paranoid Android]

Sure. On the other side people slam illegals (here in the U.S.) when again, illegals do a large contribution to our labor force. The most important point is businesses and people choose to hire illegals since they love their cheap labor.

Maybe the anti-illegal side should acknowledge this about illegals.

Edit: I can also add that our immigration process, again in the U.S., is convoluted and more importantly a better work visa program would help.

[Shadowferal]

Well, one of the reasons why California was once considered a failed state was all the debt created to cover illegal immigrants.

[Deleted]

Sure. On the other side people slam illegals (here in the U.S.) when again, illegals do a large contribution to our labor force. The most important point is businesses and people choose to hire illegals since they love their cheap labor.

Maybe the anti-illegal side should acknowledge this about illegals.

TBF that's a double edged sword. One issue is people refusing said jobs leaving only illegals to do it, the other is businesses deliberately paying lower so only illegals will do it it ala cheap labour

[Daelak]

Well, one of the reasons why California was once considered a failed state was all the debt created to cover illegal immigrants.

No one serious has ever considered California to be a failed state.

[Paranoid Android]

TBF that's a double edged sword. One issue is people refusing said jobs leaving only illegals to do it, the other is businesses deliberately paying lower so only illegals will do it it ala cheap labour

Speaking strictly from a U.S. perspective. Illegals are an easy target. They are truly not represented and can easily be made the boogey-man by saying they are taking jobs and driving down wages. Again, I would point more to the businesses that hire them.

Yes, people talk about crime. Every stat shows that on average illegals commit less crime than U.S. population. Please, no semantics about them crossing the border is a crime and thus they are all criminals.

[Deleted]

Speaking strictly from a U.S. perspective. Illegals are an easy target. They are truly not represented and can easily be made the boogey-man by saying they are taking jobs and driving down wages. Again, I would point more to the businesses that hire them.

Yes, people talk about crime. Every stat shows that on average illegals commit less crime than U.S. population. Please, no semantics about them crossing the border is a crime and thus they are all criminals.

I think that's true worldwide - the issue is legal immigrants get lumped in too

[willtron]

Sure. On the other side people slam illegals (here in the U.S.) when again, illegals do a large contribution to our labor force. The most important point is businesses and people choose to hire illegals since they love their cheap labor.

Maybe the anti-illegal side should acknowledge this about illegals.

Edit: I can also add that our immigration process, again in the U.S., is convoluted and more importantly a better work visa program would help.

Because none of the illegals pay tax. Great for the profit margins. Not so great for the state.

Whereas skilled foreign workers cost money to get into the country - around $10,000 for a H1-B iirc.

[Daelak]

Because none of the illegals pay tax. Great for the profit margins. Not so great for the state.

Whereas skilled foreign workers cost money to get into the country - around $10,000 for a H1-B iirc.

Illegals do pay state and local taxes, most pay into federal funds like SS and medicare.

[May90]

Illegal immigrants tend to do jobs the locals aren't willing to do. So perhaps it is not all that black and white.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Illegal immigrants tend to do jobs the locals aren't willing to do. So perhaps it is not all that black and white.

They also take shit jobs that a local may be willing to do, and do it for far less money. Effectively forcing locals to either lower their pants and take that shitty salary in the ass or stay home and post on MMO-Champion.

[gyrados]

illegal immigrants are criminals plain and simple you know the whole illegal part yeah

[Paranoid Android]

Illegals do pay state and local taxes, most pay into federal funds like SS and medicare.

On the other side. There is hardly ever any outrage over how businesses basically exploit illegals through hiring. The obvious is paying them a very low wage, maybe under what we have as a minimum wage. They do not have to pay benefits and save on some taxes. Plus most have no worker rights. How can you make a complaint, when you are illegal?

[Gheld]

Illegal immigrants tend to do jobs the locals aren't willing to do. So perhaps it is not all that black and white.

This POS argument needs to die.

If a job inherently sucks then it's called "Negotiating power". A company must then offer a higher wage to fill the positions.

[Paranoid Android]

They also take shit jobs that a local may be willing to do, and do it for far less money. Effectively forcing locals to either lower their pants and take that shitty salary in the ass or stay home and post on MMO-Champion.

You do understand the business has a choice. Again, it seems that the narrative is that illegals somehow have his incredible power of walking into an establishment and that business is forced to hire them.

[Paranoid Android]

This POS argument needs to die.

If a job inherently sucks then it's called "Negotiating power". A company must then offer a higher wage to fill the positions.

Its called Demand. The business likes cheap labor and thus hires cheap labor. Illegals are willing to work for cheap and thus come across the border "illegally" to get said job.

[Gheld]

Its called Demand. The business likes cheap labor and thus hires cheap labor. Illegals are willing to work for cheap and thus come across the border "illegally" to get said job.

Every business will pay their employees as little as they can get away with and still fulfill their desired retention level. Throwing in foreign workers from countries where labour standards are different though just fucks with negotiating power on the employees end.

[zenkai]

Like most people I have no problem with immigrants, I welcome people who want to make their life better, I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration.

[Pangean]

Donald Trump loves immigrants he even married one

he is only against illegal immigrants

Being married to Donnie is yet another job only immigrants will do.

[Skalm]

Illegals do pay state and local taxes, most pay into federal funds like SS and medicare.

Can you please explain to me how an illegal can pay state and local taxes, and into Federal SS and medicare (through their 'wages') when they do not have a social security number (you know, that thing that they use to track you and track your taxes and such)?

Pretty sure an illegal gets paid cash under the table...'cuz you know, it is illegal to have an illegal working for you, and if you paid them on the books you would be waving a flag saying 'Hey I have illegals working for me'...