LFR: Success or Failure?

[Deleted]

LFR justfies the budget for raiding.

No LFR then you ether get really watered down crappy raids or no raiding at all.

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The other way to keep the game interesting is putting out more content.

The amount of content blizzard puts out compared to all other MMO's on the market is a fucken joke. FFXIV just destroys them in content release.

Final fantasy is even more grindy than WoW, firstly, the grind to max level is long, the grind to max crafting is very long and hard it's all also gated pretty well you just don't notice it untill endgame

[Jtbrig7390]

I did play wildstar at launch... the more you bring it up just convinces me you never played either it or burning crusade you seem to have only a vague notion of what either was like.

Would you be so against a progression system that wasn't raiding that you would honestly never play the game? What is it that got you into wow in the first place?

The bolded: Would u like me to show you when I first subbed to WoW so you know I played TBC.

As for the rest. As long as raiding is the endgame I want a queable raid and if it switched to 5mans I want it queable. I am done dealing with guilds and the LFG system.

If the story ends inside a 5man I want to be able to que up see it and collect loot. If I don't get that I don't play WoW. Personally raiding can die in a fire and I won't care. I enjoy raiding alot but I enjoy fun 5mans more.

I was one of the people who enjoyed Cata 5mans.

[A dot Ham]

People are leaving every month, but people don't just leave WoW for one reason. We are in yet another long content drought after all & lfr/lfg can't accurately be scapegoated as X% of the people who are unsubbing from WoW.

As for the diminished sense of accomplishment excuse I don't buy that for a second. I know for myself personally that I don't feel bad for say normal level 100 dungeons existing when I am doing challenge modes, nor do I think that people should be prevented from getting gear easily from 5 mans while I am a CM gold player. 'Better players' are rewarded with exclusive rewards in WoW, not exclusive content that only they are allowed to do.

Someone gets its! Appropriate rewards are the lifeblood of any MMO.

[Jtbrig7390]

Final fantasy is even more grindy than WoW, firstly, the grind to max level is long, the grind to max crafting is very long and hard it's all also gated pretty well you just don't notice it untill endgame

There is bad gating and good gating.

Once you hit max level you got alot you can play around with.

A example of bad gating (IMO): Is this choice blizzard made to lock two dungeons behind rep. That is going to make the que times longer for those dungeons if you get in them at all. They should have gated all dungeons behind a achievement that unlocks them for the rest of your characters or not at all.

Also the grind to max level in FFXIV isn't long at all. You can hit max level in 2 weeks (Fresh toon) or a few days (Alt Class).

[Perkunas]

Someone gets its! Appropriate rewards are the lifeblood of any MMO.

The thing is if you didn't suck and you could put in the time and effort you could see everything in Vanilla. Now, BC was harder because the raids were more difficult, but I think that style of play is fine being niche IF you provide ample content for non-raiders. There need to be alternative end games and rewards exclusive to those forms of end game. This would mean raid gear is only best for raiding and dungeon gear is best for dungeons down to solo gear being best for solo content. I do believe Warcraft is too far gone at this point to shift models and it's easier for them to dumb down the bosses to idiot proof and hand out items while telling these people they are the hero and are Azeroth's only hope.

[MrLachyG]

It's a success; it's given people who don't have the time, experience or social guild to experience raiding.

[Deleted]

There is bad gating and good gating.

Once you hit max level you got alot you can play around with.

A example of bad gating (IMO): Is this choice blizzard made to lock two dungeons behind rep. That is going to make the que times longer for those dungeons if you get in them at all. They should have gated all dungeons behind a achievement that unlocks them for the rest of your characters or not at all.

Also the grind to max level in FFXIV isn't long at all. You can hit max level in 2 weeks (Fresh toon) or a few days (Alt Class).

Good and bad gating is simply a matter of preference. I agree that FF has much more options available but whichever you choose there is still much grinding to do.

[Perkunas]

It's a success; it's given people who don't have the time, experience or social guild to experience raiding.

While it lets people see the story and gives them a reward this is like saying riding a pony in a circle at the petting zoo is basically the same as running in the Kentucky Derby.

[Jtbrig7390]

While it lets people see the story and gives them a reward this is like saying riding a pony in a circle at the petting zoo is basically the same as running in the Kentucky Derby.

No its like saying riding a pony at the zoo gives you the experince of riding a horse with little risk.

Petting Zoo riding = LFR and Kentucky Derby = Mythic Raiding....

[Perkunas]

No its like saying riding a pony at the zoo gives you the experince of riding a horse with little risk.

Petting Zoo riding = LFR and Kentucky Derby = Mythic Raiding....

I was simply implying it's not really raiding. Just like riding the pony isn't really horse racing. It incorporates the elements but there's no challenge or competitive aspects.

[Lucky Fable]

The bolded: Would u like me to show you when I first subbed to WoW so you know I played TBC.

As for the rest. As long as raiding is the endgame I want a queable raid and if it switched to 5mans I want it queable. I am done dealing with guilds and the LFG system.

If the story ends inside a 5man I want to be able to que up see it and collect loot. If I don't get that I don't play WoW. Personally raiding can die in a fire and I won't care. I enjoy raiding alot but I enjoy fun 5mans more.

I was one of the people who enjoyed Cata 5mans.

It sounds like you simply have grown out of mmos. If you want to que for everything you would be better served by diablo or one of its clones. I think that really is the route of your problem. It isn't the game itself it is simply you don't want to play a mmo anymore...

You just want the reward you no longer care for the content involved in it.

[Jtbrig7390]

I was simply implying it's not really raiding. Just like riding the pony isn't really horse racing. It incorporates the elements but there's no challenge or competitive aspects.

Riding a pony is horse riding because you are riding a horse.

Just like LFR is raiding because your inside a raid. The difficulty does not define what it is. By ur logic only those who run the kentucky derby have rode a horse and that's a lie.

[Perkunas]

Riding a pony is horse riding because you are riding a horse.

Just like LFR is raiding because your inside a raid. The difficulty does not define what it is. By ur logic only those who run the kentucky derby have rode a horse and that's a lie.

I didn't say riding a horse. I said riding the pony isn't racing. If you can completely ignore mechanics and still kill the boss it's not really raiding. You're just hitting a loot pinata shaped like a raid boss with a stick and picking up the candy.

[Thimagryn]

I think you two are overblowing what MrLachyG actually said.

Let's start by defining 'Raiding'. A Raid is a large-scale dungeon involving 10-20 people. Raiding is the process of doing a Raid. Difficulty doesn't change the definition of Raiding.

What LFR does is let traditional non-raiders (ie casual players, players with little time) experience the process of running a raid.

This doesn't mean LFR gives players the experience of a Mythic raider. A statement was taken out of context and twisted it to something else.

[Jtbrig7390]

It sounds like you simply have grown out of mmos. If you want to que for everything you would be better served by diablo or one of its clones. I think that really is the route of your problem. It isn't the game itself it is simply you don't want to play a mmo anymore...

You just want the reward you no longer care for the content involved in it.

Totally that's it, Isn't like I have cleared all NM raiding of HFC. I love how people like you fall back on the (Sounds like you grown out of MMO's) arguement while ignoring the original point of a MMO.

The original point of a MMO was to have a virtual life to escape your real one. There has only been a handful of MMOs to really achieve this IMO (SWG being one of them).

But you are right I have grown tired of MMO's (Ones based around models dating back to 2007). You tho are clearly tired of current MMO's and maybe should go play EQ Project 1998.

I like the current wow and you want me to leave in hopes it gives you what you want. How about you just leave and find another MMO that fits what you like. Wow is not now nore never going back to the TBC model because blizzard knows it won't work in 2016. Not when there is options out there.

If WoW reach's a point where I won't play it I got two others I will play (Runescape and FFXIV)

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I didn't say riding a horse. I said riding the pony isn't racing. If you can completely ignore mechanics and still kill the boss it's not really raiding. You're just hitting a loot pinata shaped like a raid boss with a stick and picking up the candy.

So you can stand still at archy and just afk and kill him?

Please do show me a video of 25 people standing at archy (NOT IN MYTHIC GEAR) afking hitting him and finishing it.

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I think you two are overblowing what MrLachyG actually said.

Let's start by defining 'Raiding'. A Raid is a large-scale dungeon involving 10-30 people. Raiding is the process of doing a Raid. Difficulty doesn't change the definition of Raiding.

What LFR does is let traditional non-raiders (ie casual players, players with little time) experience the process of running a raid.

This doesn't mean LFR gives players the experience of a Mythic raider. A statement was taken out of context and twisted it to something else.

That is quite true but I had to change one thing since LFR allows 25 people and NM/HM allows 30. LFR is raiding just easy mode raiding.

[Lucky Fable]

Totally that's it, Isn't like I have cleared all NM raiding of HFC. I love how people like you fall back on the (Sounds like you grown out of MMO's) arguement while ignoring the original point of a MMO.

The original point of a MMO was to have a virtual life to escape your real one. There has only been a handful of MMOs to really achieve this IMO (SWG being one of them).

But you are right I have grown tired of MMO's (Ones based around models dating back to 2007). You tho are clearly tired of current MMO's and maybe should go play EQ Project 1998.

I like the current wow and you want me to leave in hopes it gives you what you want. How about you just leave and find another MMO that fits what you like. Wow is not now nore never going back to the TBC model because blizzard knows it won't work in 2016. Not when there is options out there.

If WoW reach's a point where I won't play it I got two others I will play (Runescape and FFXIV)

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So you can stand still at archy and just afk and kill him?

Please do show me a video of 25 people standing at archy (NOT IN MYTHIC GEAR) afking hitting him and finishing it.

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That is quite true but I had to change one thing since LFR allows 25 people and NM/HM allows 30. LFR is raiding just easy mode raiding.

I kind of love how you added the mythic gear thing about not afk attacking archie to kill him.

Really though you haven't actually proven or even made a point in your favor. I imagine you do hear from a lot of people that you don't like mmos because that sincerely seems to be the case.

Mmos were always meant to be a game where you interact with other people not simple escapism.

[Jtbrig7390]

I kind of love how you added the mythic gear thing about not afk attacking archie to kill him.

Really though you haven't actually proven or even made a point in your favor. I imagine you do hear from a lot of people that you don't like mmos because that sincerely seems to be the case.

Mmos were always meant to be a game where you interact with other people not simple escapism.

Right I did add it because it doesn't prove anything. Getting Mythic gear and walking into LFR saying you can auto attack and win it. Is like me going into ICC at level 100 and saying I cleared it when it was current.

Go into LFR with the gear that ment for it and auto attack archy. Show me a video of 25 people doing this.

What it seems like is you don't like modern day MMO's. Maybe you should play EQ Project 1998.

Mmos were always meant to be a game where you interact with other people not simple escapism.

In your opinion but in fact no that's not the case. That's why even in Classic and TBC you could level up to max by urself with no help.

[Perkunas]

I killed Kazzak in a pug that means I'm a raider too...

[Jtbrig7390]

I killed Kazzak in a pug that means I'm a raider too...

You killed a raid boss while in a raid group.....so yes. Notice the key words that was used, ill give you a hint.

Hint: Raid.

[Lucky Fable]

Right I did add it because it doesn't prove anything. Getting Mythic gear and walking into LFR saying you can auto attack and win it. Is like me going into ICC at level 100 and saying I cleared it when it was current.

Go into LFR with the gear that ment for it and auto attack archy. Show me a video of 25 people doing this.

What it seems like is you don't like modern day MMO's. Maybe you should play EQ Project 1998.

In your opinion but in fact no that's not the case. That's why even in Classic and TBC you could level up to max by urself with no help.

You could but it is extremely unlikely you would. Certainly not as fun either.

You keep asking for more and more proof and then go in tangents when you are shown it...

It is somewhat perplexing. You know the current game experience isn't as deep as what it used to be. You know the progression system is out of whack. You also know that wow for non raiders could very well be filled with bots and none would be the wiser save for having fewer trump memes...

What exactly is it that you are trying to argue anymore? We know that you like the current lfr then burn the rest of the content to the ground system but you can't really produce a case to as for why it is better save you like it...