Georgia Police Taser Man to Death

[Deleted]

[TwoNineMarine]

Prolly shouldn't have taken drugs.

The police should have gotten off of him once he was cuffed. But having dealt with people who resist to no end I feel for their situation as well.

[Polyxo]

I'm not the one who started with the magical nonsense. That's the point.

Unless you have evidence to contradict the ME's analysis, you're engaging in precisely the same kind of magical thinking. I'm just using more fantastical terms to underline how fundamentally irrational it is.

He could've been assassinated by Putin. Have we ruled out Polonium poisoning?

[triplesdsu]

If they jolted him once and he had a heart attack or some other complication, sure, that's accidental.

Repeatedly tasering the guy while compressing his chest so he can't breathe? If he was THAT much of a threat, they should have used their sidearms. He clearly wasn't, which makes that kind of force unwarranted.

Also, there's a reason Taser International calls their weapons "less-lethal", not "non-lethal".

Good thing Endus doesnt teach use of force or people would complain about police shootings going up 1500%. Newsflash, plenty of people continue resisting after being tased the first time and/or while officers are on top of them. Apparently I should have shot a few people by now.

PS. The most efficient way to not be tased or have a cop on you is dont resist. It's better for everyone involved and you have nearly a 100% survival rate.

[Polyxo]

Good thing Endus doesnt teach use of force or people would complain about police shootings going up 1500%. Newsflash, plenty of people continue resisting after being tased the first time and/or while officers are on top of them. Apparently I should have shot a few people by now.

PS. The most efficient way to not be tased or have a cop on you is dont resist. It's better for everyone involved and you have nearly a 100% survival rate.

If you are using a taser on people for reasons that are simple as "he's not doing what I want him to", you're misusing a taser. Your departmental rules are probably written to give you the leeway to misuse that taser as much as you'd like, by the way.

[Endus]

PS. The most efficient way to not be tased or have a cop on you is dont resist. It's better for everyone involved and you have nearly a 100% survival rate.

So yet another "Pick up that can" argument.

Police brutality shouldn't be accepted because the target "shouldn't have been noncompliant".

[triplesdsu]

If you are using a taser on people for reasons that are simple as "he's not doing what I want him to", you're misusing a taser. Your departmental rules are probably written to give you the leeway to misuse that taser as much as you'd like, by the way.

Physical resistance isnt "not doing what I want him to" and appropriate use of a taser, especially in a close quarters area like a vehicle where other options aren't workable.

[Polyxo]

So yet another "Pick up that can" argument.

Police brutality shouldn't be accepted because the target "shouldn't have been noncompliant".

I think you've hit an argumentative wall with some of these people, where they fundamentally believe that anything other than absolute deference to police in all situations warrants any response at all, whether that's beating, tasering or shooting.

[triplesdsu]

So yet another "Pick up that can" argument.

Police brutality shouldn't be accepted because the target "shouldn't have been noncompliant".

Using force on an non-compliant individual isn't police brutality unless the force used is excessive. The force we use will always be greater than the resistance we are getting. In contrast, no force is necessary (and thus excessive if used) on a compliant individual.

[Polyxo]

Physical resistance isnt "not doing what I want him to" and appropriate use of a taser, especially in a close quarters area like a vehicle where other options aren't workable.

It's not an appropriate use of a taser, as much as you want it to be. Tasers, like clubs, are potentially lethal weapons, and can really only justifiably be used in situations where there's an immediate serious danger to other people, despite what your departmental policy says.

[Deleted]

Another case of an american police killing someone..

Is ANYONE honestly surprised anymore?

[Endus]

Using force on an non-compliant individual isn't police brutality unless the force used is excessive. The force we use will always be greater than the resistance we are getting. In contrast, no force is necessary (and thus excessive if used) on a compliant individual.

Considering this guy died, it's pretty clear the force was excessive. He was already handcuffed. If you'd manhandled him into the back of the squad car, I'd agree that was "reasonable force". Tasering him over and over while compressing his chest so he can't breathe, until he dies? That's way past that mark.

Tasers are weapons, and the only reason they should be used is to safely take down an individual who poses a legitimate threat. Not just someone who's not compliant enough for you.

[Tijuana]

Considering this guy died, it's pretty clear the force was excessive. He was already handcuffed. If you'd manhandled him into the back of the squad car, I'd agree that was "reasonable force". Tasering him over and over while compressing his chest so he can't breathe, until he dies? That's way past that mark.

Tasers are weapons, and the only reason they should be used is to safely take down an individual who poses a legitimate threat. Not just someone who's not compliant enough for you.

This is what happens when the usual suspects jump in to their usual routine without reading the article, Endus.

[Templar 331]

I'm not the one who started with the magical nonsense. That's the point.

So it is irrational to question someone's professional opinion and is on the same level as magic? Are you fucking serious? So you've NEVER heard of someone getting a second opinion from a different doctor?

"He knows what he's talking about. He's a doctor!"

Guess what, that doesn't make a damn. The first doctor I went to about my breathing problems couldn't tell if I had asthma or COPD. You know what I did?

I FOUND ANOTHER DOCTOR.

Unless you have evidence to contradict the ME's analysis, you're engaging in precisely the same kind of magical thinking.

Wrong. It is up to the ME to provide evidence. We can't see it because we aren't investigating the case. The only evidence we are given is what's in the article and I'm going to question it. Especially when there's video evidence of the event but it has been ALTERED so as to not show the moment where the victim was suffocated. They weren't shy about the tasing and the appeal to emotion that the family's lawyer was engaging in. Do you know why? Because it sells.

Does the video evidence back up the claim of the ME? I want to know. Does that make me a fool for wanting as much evidence of the situation as possible? How?

I'm just using more fantastical terms to underline how fundamentally irrational it is.

Hyperbole is a weak attempt to show intelligence. "I'm going to sound stupid because you sound stupid."

[Endus]

So it is irrational to question someone's professional opinion and is on the same level as magic? Are you fucking serious? So you've NEVER heard of someone getting a second opinion from a different doctor?

Yes. That second doctor has a rational and evidence-based reason for his position.

That's where you're falling completely apart. You have no basis for your argument.

[Templar 331]

You have no basis for your argument.

I have an altered piece of evidence from someone selling me a story. If one piece is suspect then all of it can be.

[Polyxo]

Yes. That second doctor has a rational and evidence-based reason for his position.

That's where you're falling completely apart. You have no basis for your argument.

Also in this hypothetical case, the first doctor has identified a specific case where uncertainty is involved, and a second or third judgement call may be warranted. In the case of the medical examiner, there is no judgement call being made.

[triplesdsu]

Considering this guy died, it's pretty clear the force was excessive. He was already handcuffed. If you'd manhandled him into the back of the squad car, I'd agree that was "reasonable force". Tasering him over and over while compressing his chest so he can't breathe, until he dies? That's way past that mark.

Tasers are weapons, and the only reason they should be used is to safely take down an individual who poses a legitimate threat. Not just someone who's not compliant enough for you.

No, the fact he died doesn't make the force excessive. It's whether it was appropriate in the situation and from the short clip they showed, the force was appropriate. Shit happens sometimes. A person in cuffs can still resist, hurt themselves and you. He also wasnt in the back of the squad car and he wasn't cuffed in the portion of the video that was shown as his hands were clearly not behind his back. (Cuffing someone with their hands if stupid and pointless.) Yes they are weapons and they inflict pain as a means to gain compliance/discourage resistance. I'm not sure how you can watch that video and claim someone struggling with the cops while out of their mind isn't a threat other than having no real world experience dealing with combative people and simply based on your doctorate in law from Youtube University.