Dev Watercooler - Gearing up for Legion PvP

[Deleted]

Text wall of dead, gimme bullet points =3

-When players win a Battleground, Skirmish, Arena, or Rated Battleground, they have a chance to receive a piece of gear directly.

-Your first few victories per week in each rated bracket will reward a guaranteed piece of gear, which has its item level increased based on your rating in the bracket.

-For both systems, any time you are awarded gear, it has a chance to have its item level increased further.

-For every point above ilvl800, your stats are increased by 0.1%. Someone with ilvl900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with ilvl800 gear.

-Gear will no longer be delivered through PvP currencies and vendors.

-Your primary goal in PvP will be increasing your average item level. Getting (or not getting) that perfectly itemized trinket won’t be something you’ll have to worry about.

-We reduced the likelihood you’ll see the same item twice, which will help round out your set of gear so we can offer gear on par with the rest of WoW’s end-game activities.

[Cinnamohn]

Going from "everyone starts at 700 and can obtain 710 with time" to "the bads have 700s, the glads have 710s, and the people in-between have 705s."

And, "the stats on your gear matter" to "NOTHIN' BUT THE TOP 3 DIGITS, NIGGAAAA."

[Deleted]

This is typically why wow post 3.0 has been bad on a gameplay standpoint. You shouldn't overcome a monster because you're wearing epic panties but because you adapted your gameplay to the monster you face (on an individual or a group standpoint).

Unless your epic panties give you immunity to damage, hard mythic bosses will still wipe you no matter how you overgear them (in the same tier).

[Deleted]

Why can I not quote the blue post? I need to axe this post so bad.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

PVP before Legion: It's hard to get in to PVP after so long because of the power creep!
PVP during Legion: Where's my power creep and feeling of reward?

[Deleted]

You mean when molten core was a grind and considered molten bore because it eventually became so boring?

As already stated, WoW has always been a game where gear mattered. But at least there used to be something else in the gameplay department, and not only in the top mythic raid tier of the current patch.

Unless your epic panties give you immunity to damage, hard mythic bosses will still wipe you no matter how you overgear them (in the same tier).

I can design brick walls encounters in which you'll wipe if you stand 0.5 sec too long in a flame patch (hint : hard modes have been designed like that starting from ToC in WOTLK) or don't spam your damage key fast enough too but it doesn't mean it would be fun for most players. From a game design based on strategy and synergies between players before 3.0 wow shifted to a number based pseudo action game, where contextual execution and APM is the key.

[Urza29]

everything looks awesome...because think of this way...ok so before if you didnt do pvp at all, and only did pve and you were gearing up alts for your first toon, you had crappy gear right? ok so then you did your raids for the week, did your crafting, and then basically you just had nothing else to do, at least now you can do pvp as another way to gear up, because gear is same in both.

I think of it is another mandatory thing to do to get geared for the latest raid/lfr, and then if you are pve oriented you can then do that. Or if you want both, you can now do both and get rewarded just the same. So basically if you needing some gear, and you have done all your questing, your lfr for the week, you can do pvp on nights when you are bored, and still continue to get gear, where as in wod unless you really pushed hard and pvp'ed a LOT you didn't get very far in gear, beyond the standard blue set stuff, and the stats were mismatched as was said, despite being equal ilvl

At least this way can feel making progress on your toon no matter if you are raiding, pvping, or doing pve content in world quests, this is the most character progression they have ever had, and I personally think its awesome, no more roadblocks or walls into other forms of content, If you want to do it, you do it, there's no barrier or jump in point, makes so much more sense.

as a casual pvper i'll just be doing regular battlegrounds when i have free time

[AgentStrife]

Text wall of dead, gimme bullet points =3

It's ironic that one of the biggest complaints wow players have is that there isn't enough communication between the players and the developers, and when the developers do communicate some players complain about a wall of text then ask for a bullet point.

[Deleted]

It's the exact same as on live then, just minus honour points as a currency.

[Baelic]

So it looks like people who were complaining about PvP not requiring skill got their wish.... but now they're complaining that the gear isn't enough of a reward? God the level of entitlement is so bad.

Your reward in PvP is bragging rights on how you are more skilled than X% of the gaming population, not because you have the best equipment in the game. At that point the equipment is only vanity to show off the fact you reached that level, and that's how it should be.

[unstableone]

Still as much of a mess since we learned of it.

TLDR = we ignored your feedback and only re-worded it to try to make you like it!
People already negatively posting in the blue thread about how it's still a bad idea.

People won't like being at a PERMANENT gear disadvantage in pvp. It will literally be impossible for some people to be equal in gear, and there is no reason for it to happen in pvp. People without gear, wont "chase the carrot," they will just not pvp or quit.

System is only "ok" for fresh geared players wanting to try out their class. Or for people to prove a point with fotm op classes...

[Lahis]

There is no way in hell people will enjoy RNG rewards. The effect of the higher item level on a piece might small, but it is still way better to get a cool piece like a chest or shoulders than jewelry.

Also, I can't wait to see people getting frustrated because they want to complete the transmog appearance of the PvP set, but instead of that last missing item you get a higher level ring or something you don't want.

Welcome to PvE. That's how it has always been, and somehow we still live.

[ElDoorO]

It's ironic that one of the biggest complaints wow players have is that there isn't enough communication between the players and the developers, and when the developers do communicate some players complain about a wall of text then ask for a bullet point.

Unless you're about to lump yourself into the same group that is complaining then you should inherently understand not everyone is like that. Unless you're complaining about a lack of bullet points?

[Will]

Still as much of a mess since we learned of it.

TLDR = we ignored your feedback and only re-worded it to try to make you like it!
People already negatively posting in the blue thread about how it's still a bad idea.

People won't like being at a PERMANENT gear disadvantage in pvp. It will literally be impossible for some people to be equal in gear, and there is no reason for it to happen in pvp. People without gear, wont "chase the carrot," they will just not pvp or quit.

System is only "ok" for fresh geared players wanting to try out their class. Or for people to prove a point with fotm op classes...

I don't think you understand that the power difference between a fresh alt and a fully geared dude is trivial;100 ilvl =10%

[ro9ue]

Awesome. Seems like the best system they've put in place up until this point. I really liked Vanilla for PVP because gear was gear. It worked wherever. The decision to start with segregating that gear in Burning Crusade with Resilience just sent them on a long, and imo, wrong path. One of the best things about Vanilla was that you can always progress your character by getting gear relevant to the WHOLE GAME from both PVE and PVP.

You feel like PVPing this week? Great, you can still progress your character for when you get back to raiding.

You feel like raiding and grinding gear this week? Great, you won't be far behind in PVP when you decide to hop into a battleground.

The additional change of having PVP gear matter less is probably my most wanted feature since the beginning of fucking time. I posted about this many times here, on the official forums and sent feedback in game. PVP should be as much as about skill as it can be, while simultaneously providing a constant feeling of character progression. That seemed hard to do, but, as a veteran player, believe this is the best iteration of gear's impact on PVP and PVE in the history of the game.

• You are always progressing your character's power in both areas of content no matter which you choose to do
• Gear had way more of an impact than skill in PVP. That appears to have been fixed.
• And most importantly... the "just hop in" accessibility it provides for PVPers and PVEers alike. PVEers might get bored of scripted content and instead of feeling like they have to hurdle a 30ft wall of a gear grind just to be effective in PVP... they can just hop in, and at most ever be ~10 item levels behind. And if you happen to be a raider and already have high item level gear, maybe not even that far behind at all. If you're a PVPer and your guild has an open raid slot and you wanna check it out, or just go in and murder some mobs in a dungeon... you won't feel gimped with your PVP gear. You'll have progressed parallel to your PVE buddies and likely have a similar ilevel.

Well done Blizzard. Legion is shaping up to be the best expansion yet.

As far as RNG boxes go, I definitely understand the complaints, but I prefer the excitement of RNG even if it means a potential string of bad luck. Depending on what that "system to help against getting the same gear" does, we'll just have to see. They might have to have a way to sort of "re-roll" your loot similar to the cube in D3. Maybe you spend X honor + throw your item into a magic box and it will give you another item.

[Deleted]

so do i as a mythic raider have to pvp to get better gear for raiding? plz no

will my pvp rating have influence of how good gear i get for raiding? oh god!

some pvers hate pvp and vice versa, keep that in mind blizz

[AgentStrife]

Unless you're about to lump yourself into the same group that is complaining then you should inherently understand not everyone is like that. Unless you're complaining about a lack of bullet points?

Personally, I wish Blizzard would give more walls of text, so we can have as much insight into their actions as possible. Bullets are nice, but they cannot replace the value of a discussion explaining its though process.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'd like to know at what rate we'll earn those "Marks of Honor" that will be used to buy old pvp gear. I can't read the text against the black background all that well, can some kind soul tell me if they explained it in there?

[Spray]

Awesome. Seems like the best system they've put in place up until this point. I really liked Vanilla for PVP because gear was gear. It worked wherever. The decision to start with segregating that gear in Burning Crusade with Resilience just sent them on a long, and imo, wrong path. One of the best things about Vanilla was that you can always progress your character by getting gear relevant to the WHOLE GAME from both PVE and PVP.

You feel like PVPing this week? Great, you can still progress your character for when you get back to raiding.

You feel like raiding and grinding gear this week? Great, you won't be far behind in PVP when you decide to hop into a battleground.

The additional change of having PVP gear matter less is probably my most wanted feature since the beginning of fucking time. I posted about this many times here, on the official forums and sent feedback in game. PVP should be as much as about skill as it can be, while simultaneously providing a constant feeling of character progression. That seemed hard to do, but, as a veteran player, believe this is the best iteration of gear's impact on PVP and PVE in the history of the game.

• You are always progressing your character's power in both areas of content no matter which you choose to do
• Gear had way more of an impact than skill in PVP. That appears to have been fixed.
• And most importantly... the "just hop in" accessibility it provides for PVPers and PVEers alike. PVEers might get bored of scripted content and instead of feeling like they have to hurdle a 30ft wall of a gear grind just to be effective in PVP... they can just hop in, and at most ever be ~10 item levels behind. And if you happen to be a raider and already have high item level gear, maybe not even that far behind at all. If you're a PVPer and your guild has an open raid slot and you wanna check it out, or just go in and murder some mobs in a dungeon... you won't feel gimped with your PVP gear. You'll have progressed parallel to your PVE buddies and likely have a similar ilevel.

Well done Blizzard. Legion is shaping up to be the best expansion yet.

I've got to scroll through nearly 40 posts just to find an opinion exactly identical to mine, that's worrying.

As a universal player - I welcome this change with open arms. This will enable me to earn achievements and vanity stuff from both PvE and PvP in less time than before, which leaves me more time for exploration/farming old mounts/alts, etc - marvellous.

At the beginning of every expansion, WoW has been the only game I played for like, 6 to 12 months. Legion may prolong that period, heavily. Definitely seems to be the best expansion so far.

[Fynzie]

The fact that they don't even know when they introduced Resilience shows how out of touch the pvp team is.