Sweden's city Malmö going on its knees

[Deleted]

Well I dont "want" to take any refugee myself. UNFORTUNATELY THOUGH you FUCKED UP the area and now theyre coming in by the boatloads.
Thanks "ally".[

So?
They came here on boats - We can just turn them around.

Oh jesus christ give me strength.

If i were you, i would go with wisdom.

It's mathematics. We are REPRODUCING less than we are DYING. This means we are aging and our young labour force wont be able to withstand the older aging population. It really isn't an opinion.

This argument is predicated on the notion that the economy won't be able to sustain all those people who dont work - Since refugees rarely produce more than they consume, they are not helping, they are hurting the system.

Lol what?! You think a million and a half new people is enough to sort out our demographic crisis?
Germany ALONE needs 500k people per year till 2050. Lol.

What the fuck kind of maths is that?
And more importantly, they consume more than they add - No matter how fucking many you add, you will never break even, let alone turn a profit.

[Forogil]

Refugees aren't allowed to work in Germany btw.
They are not immigrants, as said before. They are asylum seekers. Their status has to be approved first.

In Malmö, Sweden, they are allowed to work (in most cases) - while the asylum claim is being processed; and exempt from the requirement to get a work-permit.

The ones denied asylum and are scheduled for deportation have to apply for a work permit:
https://www.migrationsverket.se/Engl...ave-a-job.html

However, there is a difference between being allowed to work and actually finding work.

[Deleted]

Lol what?! You think a million and a half new people is enough to sort out our demographic crisis?
Germany ALONE needs 500k people per year till 2050. Lol.

People just live longer and longer, someday we must increase the retirement age and cut the benefits for elderly people or we need robots/automation that work for us. The people we bring will also get old one day.

[Deleted]

So?
They came here on boats - We can just turn them around.

Not in the current state of our society. Ruled by law.

If i were you, i would go with wisdom.

Sure, so I can be like you and come up with "let's turn the boats back". Dat wisdom.

This argument is predicated on the notion that the economy won't be able to sustain all those people who dont work - Since refugees rarely produce more than they consume, they are not helping, they are hurting the system.

refugees don't produce if they can't access the labour market. Policies, nothing major.

What the fuck kind of maths is that?
And more importantly, they consume more than they add - No matter how fucking many you add, you will never break even, let alone turn a profit.

Once again, you're talking policies. Policies change. Adapt.
The math is there go check it out yourself.

[Forogil]

What the fuck kind of maths is that?
And more importantly, they consume more than they add - No matter how fucking many you add, you will never break even, let alone turn a profit.

It's the bad kind of math.

If one does the most trivial models the German demographic "crisis" is 200-300k/year - not 500k/year.
Basically there were 11.29 deaths and 8.42 births per thousand, which gives 232k excess deaths that need to be compensated.
Alternatively the fertility rate is now about 1.47 compared to the replacement rate of 2.08 or so in Germany, which gives about 300k missing children.

However, that is a long term projection with no changes it would be 30% less after 100 years - hardly a catastrophe, and even the fertility rate is a projection - and for many Europeans that fact that fewer Germans need less "lebensraum" might not be entirely negative.

- - - Updated - - -

Because They Chose.

Half of the truth, the other part is that they were allowed to choose.
Asylum seekers choose Sweden and Germany (and Austria), and governments ignored the Dublin rules to allow them to choose that. There are now fences and camps in Greece to stop that, since fences work.
Asylum seekers in Sweden choose Malmö - and the government allows that (seems it is changing).

--
The idea that refugees are actually welcomed and seen as a solution for a problem is still as ridiculous as before. There are Lufthansa flights to the northern part of Iraq (no visa required for EU citizens). Iraqis from that region (some who apply for asylum) cannot just hop on the in other direction plane - because they need a visa (some use the return flight since they have given up on their asylum application). If the EU-governments were competent and wanted refugees they would just remove the visa requirement, or process asylum applications in Syria or Iraq first.
They don't since they don't really want refugees - they only want to be seen as accepting refugees.

[Majestic12]

It doesn't take a genius to see that Malmö's economy sucks because of all the people who live on welfare there, who just happen to be mostly immigrants... But associating immigrants with immigration that's blasphemy, madness!

So how exactly is that the fault of the immigrants, rather than the politicians? I see all of you righties in this thread blaming immigrants and not politicians. You don't seem very smart.

[Deleted]

Well I dont "want" to take any refugee myself. UNFORTUNATELY THOUGH you FUCKED UP the area and now theyre coming in by the boatloads.
Thanks "ally".

- - - Updated - - -



Oh jesus christ give me strength.
It's mathematics. We are REPRODUCING less than we are DYING. This means we are aging and our young labour force wont be able to withstand the older aging population. It really isn't an opinion.

Yes there are other options. Have more kids. We don't though. So yeah.

By the way, I'm sure we can agree on something. Id rather have selective immigration instead of boatloads dropping desperate people on the border. Having said that, what we are getting is the latter, thanks also to our own actions in the area. You reap what you sow. Especially if you live 200 miles away from the areas you are destabilising.

Next time we wont listen to cowboys living far away I guess.

- - - Updated - - -



Lol what?! You think a million and a half new people is enough to sort out our demographic crisis?
Germany ALONE needs 500k people per year till 2050. Lol.

And there are ways to deal with the crisis which don't involve importing people who are iliterate, won't work and will turn your state into a caliphate in 100 years from now.

[Forogil]

So how exactly is that the fault of the immigrants, rather than the politicians? I see all of you righties in this thread blaming immigrants and not politicians. You don't seem very smart.

Except that people in this thread are also blaming the politicians: for failures unrelated to immigration, for failed integration policies (including allowing the immigrants to aggregate in Malmö), and/or allowing too many immigrants in general. I have yet to hear any anti-immigration activist claim that it's the immigrants fault while being in favor of politicians inviting immigrants.

If a person is over-weight with severe problems such as loss of breath due to eating too many protein-bars (or donuts) a simple suggestion is to not eat them (or at least eat less).

Saying that it is caused by wrong policies - like not enough exercise, or other factors - like lacking a few meters in length, or that others should eat them instead, is not that helpful, especially if nothing is done to change it. That is just arm-chair sophistry (not saying that exercise is a bad idea, just that it isn't always that easy).
Saying that studies have found that eating food is better than not eating food is entirely missing the point.

[Deleted]

So how exactly is that the fault of the immigrants, rather than the politicians? I see all of you righties in this thread blaming immigrants and not politicians. You don't seem very smart.

First, the immigrants who made it to Germany / Sweden and UK are not the poorest and most endangered people in their respective countries.
Have you thought about it, how many people live from < 2$ / day?
Do you think, that these people would be able to financially afford to send at least one of their own to Europe? Because a one way trip costs a fortune, when even the "boat-trip" from Turkey to Greece costs about 1000 EUR.
And furthermore looking at the immigrants, the vast majority of them are young / able men who would surely be able to have a positive influence in their home-country. + It is far cheaper to help the people in their own countries, than to cater them here in Europe (where they have next to 0 chance to enter the job-market successfully, due to their very low education).

(This vid below also can be very well applied to the European immigration problem.)


I say only this, yes these immigrants, who came to Europe 2015 and still flood to us this year can be very well blamed for this situation.
1. They clearly didn't choose safety. Because if safety would've been the priority. They would've stopped already at Bulgaria /Turkey a.s.o.. (In short the first safe country, they enter)
But interesting enough, these immigrants targeted only the countries with the most generous welfare systems.
Why?
2. As I said, the people who are coming here are not the poorest in their respective countries, but can be considered the middle class.
And can you at least imagine, what will happen to the regional economy a.s.o. if the middle class is emigrating?
These people are damaging their fellow countrymen in many ways.
- They draw out their money out of the local economy and further weaken it.
- They draw out the money out of the relief programs from the Western countries. Because these funds have to be redistributed to the support for the local immigrants.
- Last but not least, the vast number of young and able men are leaving women and children behind. This is by Western standards a despicable and cowardly move.

And last but not least.
The immigrants are to blame, that up until now in the vast majority have squandered every given chance by the Swedes (with their generous welfare / education and relief programs) to become productive members of society. They turned Malmoe into the city, which it is right now by mooching of the generous welfare systems in place.

[Sama-81]

Lol what?! You think a million and a half new people is enough to sort out our demographic crisis?
Germany ALONE needs 500k people per year till 2050. Lol.

It was in regards to the demographic crisis in my country (one of the countries where you often see that excuse used, still), and yes I most certainly think it is solved for the foreseeable future, even if we closed our borders entirely for a good long while ahead. Only a moron would think it wasn't, if we add accepting only very high-skilled immigrants and immigrants that already got a job before arriving. For the rest of Europe, well I'll leave that analysis to the inhabitants of the actual countries themselves.

[Baracuda]

So how exactly is that the fault of the immigrants, rather than the politicians? I see all of you righties in this thread blaming immigrants and not politicians. You don't seem very smart.

I don't blame anyone, just stating the obvious, to most people anyway. Yes, the politicans allowed the immigration to happen but whose fault it is doesn't change the fact that it's the welfare the immigrants require that is ruining the city's economy.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Wow, Sweden has really fallen as a country. I hope the citizens rise up and stand against this invasion of non-Swedes into their country which have caused so much turmoil and destruction.

[sarahtasher]

Short of the usual suspects posting the usual stuff, it would be of course silly to suggest here that migrants are not magically causing unemployment....

For instance, in France, Roublaix is one of the most troubled cities, with a large migrant population (30%. It's of course ''migrant'' as in ''code word for anyone who can't prove his French citizenship up to Saint Louis) Roublaix is also a mono industrial city, built on textile. Gee, I wonder what happened there in the seventies/eighties...when the ''migrants'' were already there and working in the said textile mills.

[Theodarzna]

Lol what?! You think a million and a half new people is enough to sort out our demographic crisis?
Germany ALONE needs 500k people per year till 2050. Lol.

Perhaps its time to look at German law, society and economic conditions and ask, so why aren't people breeding? I mean if ones own country cannot sustain a population long term clearly there is something natively wrong that no amount of immigration is going to solve.

[Forogil]

For instance, in France, Roublaix is one of the most troubled cities, with a large migrant population (30%. It's of course ''migrant'' as in ''code word for anyone who can't prove his French citizenship up to Saint Louis) Roublaix is also a mono industrial city, built on textile.

Mono-industrial cities are a problem - but not related to this.

The ship-yard in Malmö was never that dominant, and it closed in 1987/1998.
Since 2002 the foreign born have increased by almost 50% and the Swedish born with 2 Swedish parents have slightly decreased.

[sarahtasher]

Mono-industrial cities are a problem - but not related to this.

The ship-yard in Malmö was never that dominant, and it closed in 1987/1998.
Since 2002 the foreign born have increased by almost 50% and the Swedish born with 2 Swedish parents have slightly decreased.

That's not exactly unrelated-Malmo shipyards provided lots of jobs and they closed-there was thus a glut of available housing and a penury of jobs. If those houses were populated by Swedes, I concur that the situation would probably be a little better-but it would not be magically perfect.

''Begnin neglect'' is not a concept unique to the USA.

[Forogil]

That's not exactly unrelated-Malmo shipyards provided lots of jobs and they closed-there was thus a glut of available housing and a penury of jobs. If those houses were populated by Swedes, I concur that the situation would probably be a little better-but it would not be magically perfect.

That was not significant, when the ship-yards were so bad that the state took over (end of the 70s) they had less than 5,000 employees.

I doubt that all of them lived in the city - and the city had 235k inhabitants at the of the 70s, and 2015 they were 322k.

[sarahtasher]

5000 industrial jobs, while clearly not making Malmo a mono-industrial city, are hardly negligible.