So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

It's more that her counters aren't true counters. The idea of a "counter" is a rock-paper-scissors deal, where if they play the Pharah-rock, you would want to play the Paper that they can't deal with. With Soldier 76 and McCree, they're just other rocks, not paper. An equally-skilled Pharah has a good chance at killing either of them and avoiding getting shot out of the sky. So telling people "go Soldier and counter Pharah" doesn't work, because he's not a true counter. He CAN shoot back, but it's a tossup. If the Pharah's better at Pharah than whoever swapped to Soldier is at Soldier, Pharah's probably not countered.

This gets exacerbated when Mercy pairs herself with Pharah, because Soldier 76 can't readily shoot either of them down before Pharah kills him.

I haven't mentioned Bastion, because Bastion is a counter to Pharah. He has way more health than Soldier, and his self-heal is better and more available (recharging total, no CD). Bastion can better keep fire on Pharah, in Recon mode, than Soldier can, and Soldier's advantages (sprint, AoE heal, Helix Rockets) aren't hugely useful against a Pharah to begin with.

We just need more counters to Pharah. That'll be enough. If I wanted to fix anything, really, it would be the Pharah-Mercy combo. Maybe don't let Mercy use her Dash again until she touches down. For basically anything BUT Pharah, that's irrelevant; it just stops her flying around with Pharah constantly. And we need people to realize that you don't just have one guy swap to a hitscan and expect that this means Pharah is shut down. If it's just that people aren't shooting the Pharah, then that's not a balance issue, that's a player skill/awareness issue, and nerfs or buffs can't fix that.

No, just fucking no.
Don't nerf Mercy just because Pharah is good or because people can't aim or dislike having WM/Bastion in their team.

[Solomodex]

Just hit gold over the weekend, so it's safe to say im still trash. My aim is getting better tho

[Endus]

@Endus there's no such a thing as a true hard counter in this game. Being a counter just gives you an advantage and being hitscan gives you an advantage over Pharah.

No. It doesn't.

Soldier 76 and McCree both have pretty significant damage falloff after medium range, while Pharah doesn't. Both Pharah and the hitscan heroes need line-of-sight, but Pharah has the advantage of being able to forecast where her enemies will be, and have rockets on their way before they enter LoS, as well as splash damage meaning her lesser accuracy doesn't matter as much.

Widowmaker's a counter. Bastion has the health and healing to be a true counter. Soldier 76 and McCree I can't consider "counters" to Pharah, because they don't really have an "advantage". They just have a chance, because they can shoot back and effectively hit her. But an equally-skilled Pharah has at least as much chance of wrecking Soldier or McCree, as they do of taking her out. Damage dropoff and their low health don't help them in this regard.

[quote]We have 76, Bastion, Widow, McCree, Ana, Zenyatta direct counters, and Torbs Turret can zone her really well, Sombra can do a fair job on most maps, and now Orisa to keep their heads down.

Ana can't really be considered a counter since they nerfed her damage by 25%. Especially since if you're countering the Pharah, you're not healing the team she's shooting.

Zenyatta is a great help in taking her out, because of Discord Orb, but his bullet travel time makes any long-term shooting a bit of a crapshoot.

And Torb's turret can be outranged and easily destroyed by Pharah. She's one of HIS counters, not the other way around.

[Jessicka]

No. It doesn't.

It really, really does when you consider how slow her missiles are.

Soldier 76 and McCree both have pretty significant damage falloff after medium range, while Pharah doesn't. Both Pharah and the hitscan heroes need line-of-sight, but Pharah has the advantage of being able to forecast where her enemies will be, and have rockets on their way before they enter LoS, as well as splash damage meaning her lesser accuracy doesn't matter as much.

Meanwhile, the hitscans can move a little less predictably when they hear those rockets and her rocket boosts. She can't hear or see through terrain from those ranges where it is an advantage, so I don't quite see what you're trying to get at, unless she either has Hanzo or Widow detection up, or is just cheating.

By contrast, the hitscan can lure her out of position by moving out of LOS, into a position where basically anyone can become a threat to her.

Widowmaker's a counter. Bastion has the health and healing to be a true counter. Soldier 76 and McCree I can't consider "counters" to Pharah, because they don't really have an "advantage". They just have a chance, because they can shoot back and effectively hit her. But an equally-skilled Pharah has at least as much chance of wrecking Soldier or McCree, as they do of taking her out. Damage dropoff and their low health don't help them in this regard.

Just as Widow has a chance of wrecking Winston or DVa if she sees them coming. Counters aren't a 100% guarantee. Like I said earlier, someone switched to Winston after I'd countered their Pharah as Widow; but my team wouldn't let them get near me.

We have 76, Bastion, Widow, McCree, Ana, Zenyatta direct counters, and Torbs Turret can zone her really well, Sombra can do a fair job on most maps, and now Orisa to keep their heads down.

Ana can't really be considered a counter since they nerfed her damage by 25%. Especially since if you're countering the Pharah, you're not healing the team she's shooting.

She can, she just needs a couple of hits and Pharah needs to reconsider her position. But, again, she shouldn't really be left to be relied on to do the job alone. No counter should, because that counter can get killed by someone else themselves or lose the duel anyway. And this is the key problem I'm highlighting, people being over reliant on one player. Particularly when it's Pharmercy when you're looking at 1v2s which frankly is absolutely fine that they win - it's two heroes, they should always win a 2v1; not doing so would be ludicrous.

Zenyatta is a great help in taking her out, because of Discord Orb, but his bullet travel time makes any long-term shooting a bit of a crapshoot.

His high ROF and fast projectiles with very little spread, and large hit boxes are actually pretty effective, they don't have drop off either. But again, see the comments on Ana. It's less of a crap shoot, and they're faster than Pharah's rockets, certainly at medium ranges.

And Torb's turret can be outranged and easily destroyed by Pharah. She's one of HIS counters, not the other way around.

There are plenty of tight maps and objectives where you can place it without providing Pharah with a long sight line to it. She's not so quick that she'll easily get away or find it and destroy it in those positions before it kills her. Again, it's an effective zoning tool rather than a counter.

[kaamila]

did my 7 matches in diamond this week and went 5-1-1 and only gained 87 points... i dont understand how they distribute these points.

[Eapoe]

Ugh, Orisa's out for comp, time to hope "theirs" is worse than "ours."

[God Save The King]

did my 7 matches in diamond this week and went 5-1-1 and only gained 87 points... i dont understand how they distribute these points.

You get around ~15 for winning, plus up to an additional ~10 for playing well. (Max I've personally seen was 24). You can lose up to 25 by losing and playing god-awful as well. Draws do not change SR, but do break any streaks you might have. Streaks only occur after 3 wins/losses (so you get a bonus on your 4th win or loss).

5 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss, would net between 60-100 depending on how well you did.


(Note these are anecdotal numbers from my experience, but tend to be pretty accurate)

[Fenzha]

Just had a fun time in a mystery heroes game with some guy shouting "retard" etc at me over and over again because i wasn't camped on the payload as a Sombra. Ended the defence with 0 deaths and picked off the back lines all game, EMPing 14 people with 3 ults in teamfights.

Go on attack with Rein and we just walk the payload all the way straight to the end with me getting a Quad kill with an Earthshatter combo. That guy went incredibly quiet in the conversation at that point.

No better feeling than shutting a toxic player up.

[Jessicka]

It depends where you are in relation to where you 'should' be, back down in Silver I was gaining up to 40SR a match, and not from streaks; and losing ~10; at my very lowest at 1650 I didn't lose any from a loss.

Back up to 2050 or something now after an okayish night, couple of wins, a loss and a draw. Got like 15-20SR winning with Reinhardt and 33 I on my Widowmaker win. That should tell you everything you need to know about playing heroes you're good at and comfortable with.

[Woobels]

There's actually a theory with some decent evidence that you get more SR for playing heroes that aren't as common, which would be funny if true.

[kaamila]

Personally ive seen wins give me up to 32 points and ive lost 40 points in a single game before.

[Endus]

There's actually a theory with some decent evidence that you get more SR for playing heroes that aren't as common, which would be funny if true.

Since the system they use takes the hero and the map and so forth into account, at best it's not going to be as certain of what your performance SHOULD be, since it has less data to build from.

[Deleted]

Didnt play for 3 days. Getting in Quick Play and I play like SHIT. Why am I like this. I got masters but as soon as I take 1 not even long break my Skill drops hard.

Played 4 Games and called it a day because I Tilted. Not because of teammates but because I was disgusted how poor my tracking and Positioning was. Didnt secure what I Call safe kills etc.

[Woobels]

Still haven't seen anything that shows Orisa is at all playable.

Godawful as far as I'm concerned.

[Jessicka]

Back to losing ways again, WR is down to 42% (forced 50% lol). Luck just not with me tonight, didn't do so well on defending Volskaya but literally carried the attacks, so scraped a draw there, but 3 more losses to chalk up. About 20SR loss a match, so compared to the 30 or so I *would* be gaining it's not like I'm playing badly I don't think, or the game doesn't think. Meh. Try again Friday.

I really, really hate Eichenwald, there are just zero redeeming features to that map.

[Woobels]

I agree Eichenwald is pretty awful all around.

[Endus]

Still haven't seen anything that shows Orisa is at all playable.

Godawful as far as I'm concerned.

Did pretty darned well on an Anubis defense with Orisa last night in comp. Had both myself and Rein tanking, hit gold damage. Dropping the shield on the middle approach worked well to deflect fire, was able to drop a silly amount of damage into the enemy team whenever they tried to push in, and her right-click got solid use in pulling people around the corner on the left-side approach (defense's viewpoint, the open-air one not the tunnel), where focus fire took them out.

It's a solid map for Orisa with fairly narrow choke approaches. She wouldn't be my automatic first pick tank for every map, and I think she's better suited for defense than offense, but she's hardly useless.

[Deleted]

Sheesh the Pharmercy is god-awful to play against, and it seems to be everyone's (at least at my shitty SR) go to combo when they're behind. (In one of those miracle instances where they're not picked straight off.)

Now I realize when you've got aimgod mcsnipealot on your team this is a joke, bird goes down as soon as she flies up, but us silver scrubs hovering around 2000 SR get our shit pushed in so hard I can taste yesterday's breakfast.
It might not need a nerf, but SOMETHING to make the combo less dominating, I don't have the headgame to keep an eye in the sky for 180 damage rockets, while making sure tracer/reaper doesn't flank the shit out of us, all the while Roadhog is just waiting for that juicy lol-shot hook.

[Woobels]

Did pretty darned well on an Anubis defense with Orisa last night in comp. Had both myself and Rein tanking, hit gold damage. Dropping the shield on the middle approach worked well to deflect fire, was able to drop a silly amount of damage into the enemy team whenever they tried to push in, and her right-click got solid use in pulling people around the corner on the left-side approach (defense's viewpoint, the open-air one not the tunnel), where focus fire took them out.

It's a solid map for Orisa with fairly narrow choke approaches. She wouldn't be my automatic first pick tank for every map, and I think she's better suited for defense than offense, but she's hardly useless.

I actually specifically dislike her on that map because she's so easy to get killed by flankers and those thrive on Anubis offense.

Almost all the games I've had success with her on were hybrids.

[Endus]

I actually specifically dislike her on that map because she's so easy to get killed by flankers and those thrive on Anubis offense.

Almost all the games I've had success with her on were hybrids.

On the final point, there's four possible routes in; the straight run down the middle, the path under the middle, and the left and right paths. With good awareness, you can tell where they're going.

I may have gotten lucky that they didn't have a pro Reaper who could outfox me, but that's a player skill issue, less a hero balance one. They tried different approaches, but I was hanging back and watching and calling out their patterns. We also had a McCree running defense, IIRC.

I'm not saying she's unassailable; a good Reaper could've probably snuck around me, a good uncountered Pharah could've broken us. But my team backed me up pretty well, I'm just saying Orisa dumped a TON of damage into their massed pushes while also being able to make strong use of her shield for group defense, freeing Reinhardt up a bit to roam more.