Tier gear is back into lfr!!

[Eapoe]

You cant. Time what you spent farming *** on your alts will be time what you will miss on your main. You will this time by playing alt putting your self behinf. Artifacts are not gated so you can farm them as you want. Which makes alts very unefficient to play.

There will always be catch up mechanics. They won't be in at the start obviously, but later on they will have ways to updgrade the weapons faster. Last I knew there's also a weekly cap for ArPo, that way you won't have it completely done in a few days of unhealthy playing. Alts will still be a thing and still just as likely to maintain as old xpacs.

[Osmeric]

You cant. Time what you spent farming *** on your alts will be time what you will miss on your main. You will this time by playing alt putting your self behinf. Artifacts are not gated so you can farm them as you want. Which makes alts very unefficient to play.

Yep. This is going to be a very alt-unfriendly expansion.

[Drekmar]

There will always be catch up mechanics. They won't be in at the start obviously, but later on they will have ways to updgrade the weapons faster. Last I knew there's also a weekly cap for ArPo, that way you won't have it completely done in a few days of unhealthy playing. Alts will still be a thing and still just as likely to maintain as old xpacs.

Too bad, I would like few days of unhealthy playing.

[gcsmith]

Dungeons are trivialized no matter what. Raid gear already trivializes dungeons, so I don't see why LFR is a problem.

LFR made for an easy way to gear up alts.

Regular raids require effort. LFR doesn't. Even dungeons require more effort, which is why dungeons should invalidate LFR, not the other way around.

[cFortyfive]

Because thats the only way terrible players like him can get good gear.

I don't really mind just bad play as long as it is at least playing that's why I think normal is so much better than lfr but why diminish that mode most suited for casual guilds and people who actually at least like to play but maybe just aren't that great.

This is indeed the best way for Blizzard to implement LFR, just needs one more bullet point added:
- LFR uses exactly same mechanics and numbers as Normal.

So basically you'd have created a mode where bosses never die ? Again putting more difficulty on lfr encounters is about the dumbest thing you could do as it does nothing but putting more strain on the very few people carrying the semi afk, xyz got talent watching, burger eating whatever rest.

[Jutath]

Not that it matters much, but having the same tier look in different colors is what is attractive to me. Bad work schedule really kills guild raiding for me so this is a nice change from WoD.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't really mind just bad play as long as it is at least playing that's why I think normal is so much better than lfr but why diminish that mode most suited for casual guilds and people who actually at least like to play but maybe just aren't that great.

The problem now is that normal isn't end game for anyone much. LFR is end game for a certain group of players. Mythic is end game for another group. Heroic is end game for a third group that isn't using it to progress to Mythic.

Normal is just a station on a road to somewhere else, usually Heroic; something to be got through so you can move on. And that's why no one cares much about it and why it's diminished in the eyes of many players. Raid Finder isn't really a part of the Normal-Heroic-Mythic piece at all. It's a separate thing. That's OK as it caters to a certain type of player that at minimum doesn't want to hassle with the community at all. They exist and there are a lot more of them than people wish to admit. And that's OK, too. They pay their subscription, do what they like within the bounds of what Blizzard provides, and for the most part don't care much about people who are busy on forums telling them how they should play, who they should talk to or what they should like.

Tier gear in LFR should keep some of them around a little longer. That's a win for them and Blizzard.

[cFortyfive]

That's OK as it caters to a certain type of player that at minimum doesn't want to hassle with the community at all. They exist and there are a lot more of them than people wish to admit. And that's OK, too. They pay their subscription, do what they like within the bounds of what Blizzard provides, and for the most part don't care much about people who are busy on forums telling them how they should play, who they should talk to or what they should like.

I don't see how that's relevant to me as a non shareholder. If they don't happen to care about anything a few ilvls less aren't exactly a dealbreaker so they pay 10 bucks duh doesn't make a very convincing argument.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't see how that's relevant to me as a non shareholder. If they don't happen to care about anything a few ilvls less aren't exactly a dealbreaker so they pay 10 bucks duh doesn't make a very convincing argument.

You wanted to understand why Normal is diminished. I told you what I thought. I have no idea at all why you're bringing up shareholders.

[Rogalicus]

Tier gear in LFR should keep some of them around a little longer.

And the order hall set would not? That's the problem with overrewarding tourist mode, it diminishes every reward before it. Instead of playing through solo content, they'll yet again complete LFR, complain that there's no content with relevant rewards (sure thing, you've just skipped everything), cry that it's just yet another 'raid or die expansion' and drop the sub. Or start asking for mythic rewards in LFR, because they have no time to complete mythic, but want that cool title, cool mount and +45 ilvls gear that is reserved for those elitists at the moment.

[nazrakin]

There will always be catch up mechanics. They won't be in at the start obviously, but later on they will have ways to updgrade the weapons faster. Last I knew there's also a weekly cap for ArPo, that way you won't have it completely done in a few days of unhealthy playing. Alts will still be a thing and still just as likely to maintain as old xpacs.

There isnt a cap. The way its gated is you get small amounts and at some point the trait cost gets obscene, such that even if you spend the whole week farming dungeons and quests for AP you wouldnt even come close. The only way to alleviate that is by increasing your "artifact knowledge" which you can only do every 5 days. There are 11 Knowledge levels and by the time you're level 7 you have a 300% increase.

[cFortyfive]

You wanted to understand why Normal is diminished. I told you what I thought. I have no idea at all why you're bringing up shareholders.

They pay their subscription That's a win for them and Blizzard.

I also presumed you were still talking about normal gear in lfr. That said I still don't think that having a normal mode which still on every server I have chars on feeds a lot of small casual guilds and giving them higher ilvls should turn out to be much of an issue for the oh so great paying lfr pleb crowd.

[Osmeric]

I don't see how that's relevant to me as a non shareholder. If they don't happen to care about anything a few ilvls less aren't exactly a dealbreaker so they pay 10 bucks duh doesn't make a very convincing argument.

Your personal desires aren't of much interest to anyone but yourself.

When I talk about what's good for the game, I try to do it from the viewpoint of shareholders, since they (and the management of the firm they own) ultimately control where the game goes. This may lead to conclusions I don't like, but I prefer honesty to deception (self- or otherwise). For example, it may turn out the game will eventually do better as a pay-to-win F2P game, sucking money from whales. I'll be sad if that happens, but I will understand (and stop playing).

The thing you really want to avoid is confusing your personal desires with some universal claim about what's good for the game.

[grexly75]

This is a really dumb decision on Blizzard's part. If this in fact goes live, it will hurt the game more than it "betters" the game. People should not be getting Tier sets in LFR. Period.

LFR is tourist mode. If this in fact goes live, they better take away determination from LFR....

This sucks.

Ha ha ha lol.. Such a butt hurt reaction, it didn't seem to hurt the game when they had Tier in MoP LFR's.. I just have to laugh out loud at those who are so butt hurt over this, it is just sad and pathetic..

I just find very amusing how upset some people are when Blizzard decide to add tier back into LFR.. I wonder how upset people will get when currently in beta the loot tables for mythic dungeons have on some bosses Green 840+ loot as it seems they are not having epic purple in them now (or it could be just a bug) eitherway it will be funny to see the whinging over that.. lol

[nazrakin]

And the order hall set would not? That's the problem with overrewarding tourist mode, it diminishes every reward before it. Instead of playing through solo content, they'll yet again complete LFR, complain that there's no content with relevant rewards (sure thing, you've just skipped everything), cry that it's just yet another 'raid or die expansion' and drop the sub. Or start asking for mythic rewards in LFR, because they have no time to complete mythic, but want that cool title, cool mount and +45 ilvls gear that is reserved for those elitists at the moment.

If these tier sets 835, the only thing it makes irrelevant are heroic dungeons.. which is content people will still do because they'll need to reach a point where they can queue for LFR. World quests, World Bosses, Mythic dungeons(non plus), Professions, and even the Order Hall sets are all as good or better. If someone gets 4p and maybe even trinkets from LFR they're still got 11 other slots they need to fill and theyd be better off doing so using any fo the above content which offers 840-860 items... world quest are the exception but the loot from there is guaranteed so it balances out regardless.

[Drekmar]

If these tier sets 835, the only thing it makes irrelevant are heroic dungeons.. which is content people will still do because they'll need to reach a point where they can queue for LFR. World quests, World Bosses, Mythic dungeons(non plus), Professions, and even the Order Hall sets are all as good or better. If someone gets 4p and maybe even trinkets from LFR they're still got 11 other slots they need to fill and theyd be better off doing so using any fo the above content which offers 840-860 items... world quest are the exception but the loot from there is guaranteed so it balances out regardless.

TBH Determination is a really stupid mechanic.

[cFortyfive]

When I talk about what's good for the game

Does pretending do anything for you ? I see that a lot in about any game these days - those wannabe economists.
Since I am not a shareholder I don't have to pretend that the most fiscally viable direction a game is taking is the one "best" for the game and absolutely equally irrelevant to me as a player since as a person who isn't addicted to the game even the complete financial downfall of Blizzard would at the end of the day change nothing about my life but elevate my blood pressure slightly because I'd have more time for csgo. On a side note why even try to sell games - just be valve .

[shanthi]

There isnt a cap. The way its gated is you get small amounts and at some point the trait cost gets obscene, such that even if you spend the whole week farming dungeons and quests for AP you wouldnt even come close. The only way to alleviate that is by increasing your "artifact knowledge" which you can only do every 5 days. There are 11 Knowledge levels and by the time you're level 7 you have a 300% increase.

In that case, you can essentially see the point where you hit super-diminishing returns until your next Artifact Knowledge level as a "cap" of sorts and work on an alt's weapon until you get the new Knowledge level on your main.

[Osmeric]

Does pretending do anything for you ? I see that a lot in about any game these days - those wannabe economists.
Since I am not a shareholder I don't have to pretend that the most fiscally viable direction a game is taking is the one "best" for the game and absolutely equally irrelevant to me as a player since as a person who isn't addicted to the game even the complete financial downfall of Blizzard would at the end of the day change nothing about my life.

What am I pretending? We can discuss what is good for the shareholders without pretending to be anything. You don't need a license to discuss such things. By thinking about this, we can get a handle on what is and is not reasonable to expect from the game in the future.

Now, YOU, we can talk about pretense. For example, are you pretending that your personal desires matter to anyone but yourself? Are you pretending that the shareholders (via management) don't ultimately decide what happens to the game? Are you pretending that wishful thinking, divorced from considerations of business reality, is a realistic way to do game design?

[grexly75]

Ok well I just logged into beta and as of now on the loot tables, LFR Gear is 835+ ILevel.. Mythic dungeons start at 840+ Ilevel gear.. While World Bosses will drop 860 Ilevel gear.. And Normal mode gear will be 850+ Ilevel..

I would give Heroic and Mythic raid Ilevels but they are not yet in Beta..

So with that the I don't think LFR gear will be that better the best tier pieces are on the last three bosses in the raid and this time around they are adding in a tier cloak as well.. So will probably be a while before folks get LFR tier anyway since items like the tier legs drop from the last boss this time around..

So the ILevel Numbers in that pic are way, way out..