"We think [Elite] Players deserve better gear" - Kaivax

[Jimmy Recard]

As a proud LfR-scrub, the only reason i want tier sets is because Blizzard has the annoying habit to fix spec flaws with the tier set bonuses, so if playing your spec the way Blizz designed/balanced it is locked behind a 4-piece bonus and a trinket, then i want access to those, i might not strictly need it, but one thing i feel my 15 euros a month entitles me to is to play the fun version of my character spec.

Your 15 a month doesn't entitle you to shit, it doesn't entitle me to shit and nor does it entitle Jim bob down the road shit, I may sound like an ass hole but its the truth. The whole reason for an MMO is 2 things:1. time and effort and 2. A whole lot of players grouping to do things. If this is to real for you then you may wish to go to the Chinese servers where you can pay by the hour.

1. Time and effort - If you log in once a week for 2 hours be it because you work a lot,Have a whole heap of other games to play or are one of those players ( Not saying you but just speaking in general ) who cries that there is little to no content to do, Than why do you deserve the same loot,rewards or "prestige" that say someone who logs in for 7 hours a day 5 days a week?
The answer is you don't!

2.Playing with lots of people -The whole point of an MMO is to group and meet new people while making friends to challenge content be it raiding,instances or even PvP if you don't want to group with other players for the raid equivalent gear to play the "fun spec" of your character why dont you play a single player game? like Warcraft 3 you still get the Warcraft "story" and can play how ever you want.


You may be asking, What the hell is the point of this post?!well that my friend is easy : No matter how much time you are able to play there are guilds all over the world with perfect raiding times to fit everyone.Hell i remember back in MoP there was a raiding guild who raided twice a week on 2-3 hours and i think they either killed Mythic/Heroic Garrosh or were very close to killing mythic/Heroic Garrosh which is impressive in it self. It all comes down to how much effort you want to put in, Want to raid with the "big boys" and get the best loot? Well get good, put in the time and effort and you too can have all the best gear and play the "fun spec". Want to put in no effort,log in with random people in LFR that you will never see again nor have to learn the fights, well be happy blizzard allows you to see the content with a raiding option that is aimed at people who are not very good/new to the game and people with very little time.

[Daffan]

I prefer the concept of Success = Reward.
Putting in more effort doesn't necessarily mean you're better and deserve better things.
When the game gets so easy that all you have to do is show up to win, winning doesn't matter any more and people stop playing.

Or, if you don't show up they just skip you to the finish line.

[Deleted]

Do whatever you want with gear past LFR. I understand people want rewarding gear for harder modes. I only care for LFR and as long as it's in the game and offers upgrades compared to questing, I'm happy "casual" .

[WarTV]

people who put more time to improve their game play and develop there skills can clear harder content and deserve better rewards. why does this sound odd to some people is beyond my understanding.

[Artelia]

Mythic raids are only for tryhards guild. Where elitism is worse than toxic waste. Rewards for 0.5 % most toxic players in wow.
Gladiator is for cheaters and meta classes. Druid,hunters etc. Again rewards for 0.5 players than deserve ban more than rewards.

Blizzard did not learn from past and this system will be their downfall in a pretty good-looking expansion. People stop PvP and PvE soon as acquire basic achives and equipment.

Wod is expansion for raiders. How it ended? Bad. Best equipment for raiders? How it ends? Bad.

Still don't trust me? Look around in your server. How many people you will meet in heavily recoverable equip from pve and how many people you will see prefer to wait and gather after weeks gladiator eq? 80% all players rather slowly farm best eq from BG rather than go silly and repetitive raids. And this is just slap for 80% these players.

Elitism must die. Because it's elitism what slowly destroying wow. And if not die... they definitely can't reward something like that. NEVER.


<links snipped>


This is now system how to get better. Legion will be much worse. Thanks Kaivax.

Infracted: Do not provide links to out-of-game gear and gold sellers [MoanaLisa]

[Clbull]

PvE and PvP should reward the same quality of gear in my opinion.

I mean we don't want a repeat of the crapshow that was Warlords where you could just spam battlegrounds and Ashran then get full item level 700 item sets in an afternoon or two for your troubles.

[cFortyfive]

Look around in your server.

I like your englando it reminds me of mine. That said I look around and see like one player with pvp gear. Oh wait it's a pve server dang.

[Dilbon]

Best players getting the best gear is a mistake.

[Clbull]

Mythic raids are only for tryhards guild. Where elitism is worse than toxic waste. Rewards for 0.5 % most toxic players in wow.
Gladiator is for cheaters and meta classes. Druid,hunters etc. Again rewards for 0.5 players than deserve ban more than rewards.

Blizzard did not learn from past and this system will be their downfall in a pretty good-looking expansion. People stop PvP and PvE soon as acquire basic achives and equipment.

Wod is expansion for raiders. How it ended? Bad. Best equipment for raiders? How it ends? Bad.

Still don't trust me? Look around in your server. How many people you will meet in heavily recoverable equip from pve and how many people you will see prefer to wait and gather after weeks gladiator eq? 80% all players rather slowly farm best eq from BG rather than go silly and repetitive raids. And this is just slap for 80% these players.

Elitism must die. Because it's elitism what slowly destroying wow. And if not die... they definitely can't reward something like that. NEVER.


<links snipped>


This is now system how to get better. Legion will be much worse. Thanks Kaivax.

Infracted: Do not provide links to out-of-game gear and gold sellers [MoanaLisa]

You're partially right. Elitism and toxicity isn't killing WoW; it already has killed the game.

World of Warcraft has the most elitist and toxic community that I've ever seen in any video game, and this is coming from someone that sank many hours into DOTA 2 and League of Legends. Coming back for WoD has already brought me on the verge of cancelling my subscription and parting ways with this game for good and it's honestly been one of the worst game experiences outside of being bullied off an entire server by its raiding community.

To summarize this, I used to play on a different server back in BC/Wrath as a Hunter DPS and Death Knight tank. By the end of Wrath, I had been forced to reroll because a significant portion of the raiding community didn't like me at all. It escalated to the point where I had been blacklisted from multiple guilds with some even going so far as to IP ban me from their forums for dare having the audacity to even make an application to them.

Aside from blacklisting, some of the things I fell victim to including false rumours spread about me, false accusations of Trade Chat whining, vile insults with zero provocation, ban circumvention, 'My friend works at Blizzard' style threats following a harassment report I issued, removing me from Heroic and raid groups after they've used me as a summoning stone to summon their cronies (this was pre 3.3, so Dungeon Finder didn't exist back then and therefore my progression was impeded from the very start by needing a premade group to clear content.)

Then there's the state of the game today. Oh boy.

So I boost a Mage to 100 so that I get instant item level 640 gear and enter a Heroic dungeon. A very highly geared and elitist player instigates a vote-kick against me after the first boss of Auchindoun Heroic because I was doing around 18k DPS over the course of two trash pulls and the boss pull. The boss went down pretty quickly, so DPS was not an issue. Besides, I overgeared the entire dungeon (even the 636 Warforged gear drops were worse than the gear I started with.)

After the whisper argument that ensued, I was then urged to write a complaint to the player's guild master about his attitude. The GM's response implied that I was physically handicapped and that I should stick to playing 'Call of Duty on single player'.

I've also seen a Retribution Paladin (not me) get kicked for doing 27K multi target DPS on a pack of mobs on the very first pull of Skyreach Heroic. The poor guy probably got a 30 minute Dungeon Deserter debuff, which is honestly one of the worst changes Blizzard ever made to the vote-kick system, because if you get kicked early enough that you get one of those, it's then Blizzard themselves telling you to stop playing the game because you suck according to the impeccably high standards of its community.

I then started to have a slight repeat of old school WoW, including elitist players deciding they don't like me, having said players insult me in trade and even make attempts to sabotage an Ironman run - firstly by pulling huge packs of mobs on me in an attempt to get me killed then by coming on their level 100s, tracking me down and nuking every quest mob within a 200 yard radius of me until I got so frustrated that I abandoned my play session.

Did I also mention that I got kicked from my guild due to said elitists (who were also guildies) having the cheek to complain about my attitude when theirs was far, far crappier? And that certain other guilds are now refusing to welcome me because of things they've said about me.

And then there's trying to raid. You can't raid in modern WoW without paying significant sums of gold for Mythic boosts. Even if you try to do Normal/Heroic, there are barely any active guilds left touching that content, and those that are recruiting have impeccably high standards and expect you to put more effort into applying for the chance to raid with them than with a job application.

And don't even try to bother with the Premade Group finder either. Unless you have ilvl 720 gear or better, and have the achievement, expect rejection after rejection after rejection after rejection, even for HFC Normal, which is sadly what I'm stuck on.

And you know the worst part? You can't publicly call out this behaviour except if you're addressing the community as a whole, or hold any individual or guild responsible because of anonymity rules against 'naming and shaming' on Blizzard's official forums and its respective fansites, meanwhile they can openly trash you and your reputation in-game.

[Deleted]

The problem currently and even more in the future is how giant the gaps of gear-tiers are. It's not prestige but complete overpowered - and so much that in pvp a reverse (bad with pro gear vs pro with bad gear situation would once again call for "skill>equip /s".

[chrisnumbers]

What's the point of this thread? What is even the point of the blue post in the first place? This has been the case since 2004. This has been the case in every game ever.
Why am I here? ...

[Sierra85]

Why am I here? ...

things can change, and its good to hear about what the community thinks in 2016, rather than in 2004.

[chrisnumbers]

things can change, and its good to hear about what the community thinks in 2016, rather than in 2004.

But nothing has changed and people still think better players should get better gear. In every game ever.
As it should be.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's true, effort put in should result in better rewards.

[oldgeezer]

Yeah, but no one listens to old people.

Damn straight. Now, excuse me while I go find some clouds to shout at.

[Jensxo]

4 difficulty versions of Karazhan.

WoW is dead.

Casuals ruin every game.

[MasterHamster]

Yeah yeah remove set bonuses and trinkets with actual procs as in WoD, then feel free to bitch about not finding geared people to fill slots as those plebs continue to deal 25-40% less damage/healing than the "real raiders" of Normal mode+ even if they manage to up their ilvl to similar levels, because set bonuses and (raid) trinkets have become utterly ridiculous over the years.

Assuming they're even allowed to join in the first place, that is. You'd be amazed by the difference between a raider with optimal trinkets and 4p bonus in 715 gear, and a craft/mythic 5man geared character with neither, when it comes to performance. And then you tell them they're bad and remove them from the group.

HFC LFR 685 ilvl
HFC Mythic 735

Yeah, I'm sure that ilvl difference isn't significant enough.

But hey, now (assuming Blizzard listens to this elitist tripe again) you'll save a couple of hours a week by "not being forced to do" LFR for that chance to get a tier piece to help you progress in your guilds preferred raid difficulty. Most likely you'll use those saved hours busy bitching about profession crafted items or Mythic+ dungeons giving raid-level loot instead.

Because that's the thing. You can NEVER satisfy the "raid-level loot should be exclusive to raiders"-minded players. Nor can these see why such a design hampers their own progression and creates a playing field where only those who were lucky at the very beginning can continue to get geared.

[cFortyfive]

World of Warcraft has the most elitist and toxic community that I've ever seen in any video game, and this is coming from someone that sank many hours into DOTA 2 and League of Legends.

I am sorry but you are wrong and the laughable example you provided supports that even further. Physical handicap ? I don't know which dota you play or if you ever played go but being called retarded or having a disability doesn't even cause a blip on the radar in competitive matchmaking heck and neither does "die of cancer", "kill yourself", "I fuck your xyz" or "I am going to kill you". I could start to go through country specific standard profanity but I don't really think that's necessary.

[Clbull]

Yeah, I've been told to kill myself by those people I've mentioned before. I just forgot to include 'indirect death threats' as one of the examples.

[Idoru]

4 difficulty versions of Karazhan.

WoW is dead.

Casuals ruin every game.

And you are forced to run every single one of them. Every week.