Why so much hate towards WoW?

[Varitok]

MoP also saw a jump to 10m and I wouldn't be surprised if Legion hit a similar number on release. What it shows is there are plenty of people who want to peep there character through a new continent but are unlikely to stick around for endgame content.

Yeah but thats a rigged number you got MoP went from 9.1 million to 10 million. WoD launch went from 6.8 million to 10 million. A lot more people had faith. I doubt legion will ever see those numbers because of their decision, Be it good or not, to reintroduce garrisons. A vast amount of people i've seen hated them and only see this decision as a fuck you to them. The hype train was decommissioned after WoD's disaster other than this place which is just Fanboy central so it's not surprising. WoW has been a home for me over the many years and if legion fails like WoD did I can't stick around anymore.

[Koward]

The thing is WoW is only partially matchmaking. There is plenty of things in WoW still build around social interaction. Tho that interaction is a choise. This means the resposibility of being social falls more onto players. Some people for some reason prefer the game to force them into socializing which isn't really a good design.

I'm not so sure there is a real choice. Statistics could probably prove that players try to be competitive, and all players (regardless of any choice) are in the same pool (it would not be the case if there was a division at the server level).
Not having to build social interaction is easier, so it's the more competitive option. This, plus the fact that less player choosing to socialize increase the difficulty to do so. It implies that in the end, there is for a vast majority only one path and no choice at all. Which is a bit sad, I think, but that's what happens.
Tho I don't have any objective data to present here, I'm not sure to speak true, but Blizzard does have statistics and can see where the fish go.

[Lilija]

I'm not so sure there is a real choice. Statistics could probably prove that players try to be competitive, and all players (regardless of any choice) are in the same pool (it would not be the case if there was a division at the server level).
Not having to build social interaction is easier, so it's the more competitive option. This, plus the fact that less player choosing to socialize increase the difficulty to do so. It implies that in the end, there is for a vast majority only one path and no choice at all. Which is a bit sad, I think, but that's what happens.
Tho I don't have any objective data to present here, I'm not sure to speak true, but Blizzard does have statistics and can see where the fish go.

What kind of competitiveness do you have in mind? Cause as I see it, matchmaking and little need of socialization is only available at lower levels. When you want to do competitive stuff in WoW you still have to socialize. But it's easier to prepare for the competitive stuff on your own (tho it's still more effective and fun to do sutff with friends rather than with strangers)

[Darkeon]

No, people are literally saying they want this game to die on this forum.

Just because a VAST minority claims something, doesn't label all the other criticism, from other people, that comes along side those, null.

So, again, in relation to the OP: No. There isn't "so much hate -sadface- Poor Blizzard"; There is a lot of criticism. Criticism, that I might add, completely valid, as we got WoD.

[Koward]

What kind of competitiveness do you have in mind? Cause as I see it, matchmaking and little need of socialization is only available at lower levels. When you want to do competitive stuff in WoW you still have to socialize. But it's easier to prepare for the competitive stuff on your own (tho it's still more effective and fun to do sutff with friends rather than with strangers)

Matchmaking is available also at the beginning of endgame, via LFG and then LFR. And it's a mandatory step to get the required gear for more advanced modes.
The higher difficulty you have, the more social and organized you must become, it's still like that today. But it does not concern all players, and you don't get to that directly.

It also highlights what I think to be the problem of difficulty modes (tho I think it's a smaller problem than the social tissue one) : "The world feels a lot bigger if there's unbeaten content out there" - Jeff Kaplan, 2005.
I believe some players (I'm not sure it's a majority on this one, but a relevant chunk at least) will do the bosses, discover the story and the art of dungeons and raid, and then it's done for them. Others will do one more difficulty level, etc.. As you can guess the numbers decrease for each higher level, leaving an elite at the top. So these players that stop the game (maybe not stopping as in cancelled subscription, but stopping the dungeons& raid and maybe focusing on other parts of the game) before higher levels will not have to find a good guild at all. And all their memories of the game will be easy stuff.
It's often a point of fight : some people say "All the content is too easy !" and on the other side you have "I bet you have never raided Mythic !". The truth is they don't agree on whether a level of difficulty is content or not.
Every issue here, are not only WoW related. But WoW has been out there for so long we discover something new : long term problems in video game.

So in short, I believe difficulty levels are not content and players always take the shortest path.
I think the best way for a MMO to create healthy social tissue is to have slow, steady progression. Players should always move forward, feeling progress, but most of them should NEVER see the end of content. The cake must be a lie.

[taishar68]

This is just one man's opinion, but there are a few reasons:

Some people feel entitled to specific things (and this can cover a broad spectrum), and when they do not get what they want, turn negative.

Some people are negative and toxic.

Some people follow the crowd.

Some people troll.

Some people.

People.

Perhaps I was using a hammer to make a nuanced point, but it's just people being people. Keep in mind that you generally only hear negative things on forums or in game because people who are enjoying themselves don't stop to tell you, they just keep having fun.

[Deadite]

The trouble with these forums is that any criticism is seen as an attack.

[McNeil]

It's not a VAST minority on this forum though, a lot of hateful people here.

I visit this subforum a lot and I very rarely see people actually wanting WoW to die. I do see plenty of people willing to criticize Blizzards actions, and those are 2 completely different things.

[Lilija]

So in short, I believe difficulty levels are not content and players always take the shortest path.

Yes, players will always take the shortest path but I can't agree difficulty levels are not content. So while people's perception can vary, claiming that art is the only content is unfair. Those higher difficulties are designed as well. The different experience they bring is content as well.

The problem with people is that they tend to think that things they don't personally enjoy don't count as content. It's like I would say PvP is not content because I don't do it.

I think the best way for a MMO to create healthy social tissue is to have slow, steady progression. Players should always move forward, feeling progress, but most of them should NEVER see the end of content. The cake must be a lie.

Remembering how people were in Vanilla and TBC I can't agree with you. Vanilla and TBC community was extremely toxic and elitist with no reason. Also, the slow progression and too many obsticles start creating really bad behaviours. For example something that was rampant in both Vanilla and TBC was how people used lower progressing guilds just to gear up and get into higher progressing guilds. It happened because time is a limited resource and people in any game should be always able to get straight to the kind of gameplay they enjoy the most. For example nowadays, people who aim at Mythic content will most likely skip anything below Heroic with the exception of a short rush in the very begining. The key in good game design isn't in locking content but in variety of content.

You also don't take into consideration that not being able to beat content can create frustration and many people will just not be bothered with it.

WoW is a game designed with many people in mind and those many people have so different expectations towards the game. So things like modeling the community or having a design that suits everyone is a lie. As Watcher said in his latest interview, all kinds of content in WoW are in fact consumed by the minority of players. WoW community is a sum of those minorities. Those minorities are often very different from each other. That's why all those theories on "why WoW loses subs" are often missed - cause people don't understand motivations of others who aren't in their own minority group.

As for Jeff Kaplan: his views on mmo design are not from this era. Everquest design will not fly on current market. People simply are not willing to put in so much time with little promise of a reward.

[Ashrynn]

I love this game and I know that I will be playing it(maybe not as intensely as I did in my teens) until Blizz pulls the plug. That said, I really hated what Blizzard did with WoD and I still resent the company for not owning up to their failures. That said, I have really high hopes for the future! After all, I found something to enjoy in every expansion(save WoD).

Legion looks incredible and I have to say after watching tons of Alpha streams that Blizzard is finally progressing and trying new things. I absolutely love the Lore going forward, the idea of Suramar being an end-game quest line, the new Profession changes, the changes to class fantasy - I'm excited! I'm just as excited for WoW with Legion as I was with The Burning Crusade.

[Lilija]

This is just one man's opinion, but there are a few reasons:

Some people feel entitled to specific things (and this can cover a broad spectrum), and when they do not get what they want, turn negative.

Some people are negative and toxic.

Some people follow the crowd.

Some people troll.

Some people.

People.

Perhaps I was using a hammer to make a nuanced point, but it's just people being people. Keep in mind that you generally only hear negative things on forums or in game because people who are enjoying themselves don't stop to tell you, they just keep having fun.

Nicely said

- - - Updated - - -

The trouble with these forums is that any criticism is seen as an attack.

Well, the problem with forums in general is that 99% of "criticism" is rather pointless whining about "why the game isn't the way I WANT IT" from people who don't even fully understand what they really want. Only 1% is actually valid and brings up some important issues.

That 99% is just an attack.

[Deleted]

I think there is very little hate actually, just lots of love for a game that isn't as good as it used to be.

The only people who seem to be doing something about it are random people who make servers like Nostalrius. Blizzard just seem to keep beating the path towards self (wow) destruction, and people are trying to get them to stop the only way they can - by saying stuff on forums. That sometimes sounds like hate, but its really not.

[Gimlix]

Well, given WoD was far from the worst expansion (Cataclysm/BC were worse) and their business is doing just fine - the only thing left is "wanting the game to fail".

People are just butt hurt because whinge whinge, no reason.

WoW is doing fine for a 12 year old game... that's a fact.

Actually that is not true.
Cataclysm was infact better then Warlords of Draenor.
And WoW is not doing alright. It is on a massive decline instead of a steady slow decline.

[Koward]

Yes, players will always take the shortest path but I can't agree difficulty levels are not content. So while people's perception can vary, claiming that art is the only content is unfair. Those higher difficulties are designed as well. The different experience they bring is content as well.

I don't know if there are enough differences for some. But as always it depends who you want to lure in the game.

You also don't take into consideration that not being able to beat content can create frustration and many people will just not be bothered with it.

Hence why I precised "steady". The idea behind older MMO was about players always progressing, but slowly (and therefore keep giving their dollars). Because any big wall creates indeed frustration, and you really do not want your player to leave because he can't do something. He must just believe he is moving toward it. It's sound a bit like what a true Devil would do, but I think it worked pretty well back then.

As for Jeff Kaplan: his views on mmo design are not from this era. Everquest design will not fly on current market. People simply are not willing to put in so much time with little promise of a reward.

I agree. It would not bring as many people as it used to.
Now, maybe the current interested population is bigger than the current decreasing WoW population. Their is, as far as I know, no MMO at the moment in this niche. Hence maybe the success, far beyond nostalgia in terms of player profiles, of vanilla servers.

[HappyCola]

As for Jeff Kaplan: his views on mmo design are not from this era. Everquest design will not fly on current market. People simply are not willing to put in so much time with little promise of a reward.

I keep hearing people claim this as if it was some absolute truth. Even after Blizzard had to close down a spectacularly successful private vanilla server a month ago. And even after retail WoW's subscriber numbers have fallen to early vanilla level. And even after people sink hundres or thousands of hours into survival games like Rust or open world sandboxes like Minecraft. Fundamentally people don't change, and the original WoW design seems to appeal to us on a deep level just as much today as it did a decade ago (and before).

It also doesn't match my experience in vanilla at all. I put in less time than in the following xpacs, yet I felt like I got much more. I also saw many friends that never played anything before get into WoW, and they definitely were not hardcore gamers. Sure I only ran one dungeon every few days instead of five per night, but the enjoyment I got from those few vanilla dungeon runs was far, far better than anything in LFG. Same for raiding. I got more enjoyment out of the first two bosses in Kara than all of MoP LFR combined.

I think it is a big design mistake to think that people want, or can get, instant gratification from WoW. It's all those "pointless grinds" and all that "waste of time" that actually make the rewards feel rewarding. The tangible rewards really have no value. The value comes from all the effort it took to get it. Believe it or not, the time it took to build a dungeon group and travel to the dungeon (the "pointless waste of time") is the reason why killing bosses in them and getting a few blues felt so rewarding, and is ultimately why I still treasure my time in vanilla.

[StraTosSpeAr]

Why is there so much hate towards wow? I just don't get it. I feel like im the only one that wants the game to succeed. Is there anyone else that hopes for the best for the game? I never realized how many negative people there are, its just sad

Ex-girlfriend syndrome.

The game's gotten worse, but people (especially on MMO-C) are overly-emotionally attached to this game and have generally sunk a ton of hours into it. Their anger is their only way to validate all that time "wasted", now that they don't get the same joy from the game anymore.

[Kazgrel]

Why is there so much hate towards wow? I just don't get it. I feel like im the only one that wants the game to succeed. Is there anyone else that hopes for the best for the game? I never realized how many negative people there are, its just sad

I would dare say most of the current hate is directed towards WoD and how it all went down. It's the first xpac that earns the honors of having me unsubbed more than subbed. I was around for 90% of BC, all of Wrath, and about 70-80% of Cata and MoP (peaced out halfway through each of the final tiers/patches). I've played for all of 4 months of WoD and did pretty much everything short of mythic raids.

I don't hate WoW in general. Had a lot of good times and met a lot of good folks through it. I don't like it's current state one bit, though.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ex-partner syndrome.

OR, genuine frustration over what they gave us in WoD...or rather, what they DIDN'T give us. And a wide spectrum of reasons between the 2.

[Raone]

Because being Negative and to point out any little flaw as the worse thing ever is the new cool thing to do.

[Mytheros]

Criticizing a bad expansion or questionable business\development plans is not the same as "wanting the game to fail". Confusing the two and thinking they mean one and the same thing is the issue that led you to make this thread.

True but if you are being honest -- an ENORMOUS amount of it is NOT constructive criticism....and confusing criticism and constructive criticism is what lead YOU to make your post....